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Adiabatic
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 Posted: Thu Sep 01, 2005 12:10 pm Post subject: What happens to old (not bold) hang-pilots |
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I first started flying with standards in 1976 and flew for 17
years. I had always dreamed of flying as a kid and I really miss it.
Had to quit because of phisical and family reasons.
Some of the changes I have seen in the sport have been topless
(not like that gal from Sweden at the womans internat. championships)
and gps flight computers.
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red
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Sep 01, 2005 10:58 pm Post subject: Re: What happens to old (not bold) hang-pilots |
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Adiabatic,
A fair number are moving to flat-land HG aero-towing, usually
with a Dragonfly ultralight as a tug, but some using trikes as
tugs. Check out Wallaby Ranch and Quest as the industry-standard
of HG tow-parks:
http://www.questairforce.com/
http://www.wallaby.com/
Some are building garage-technology airchairs:
http://home.att.net/~m--sandlin/bug.htm
http://web60.david.ebiz-webhosting.de/u1_fo_e3.htm
Some are building (unlicensed) ultralight sailplanes:
http://www.carbondragon.us/
Some have moved to the very expensive Rigid Wings:
http://www.hang-gliding.com/atos.html
http://www.continuo.com/marske/kits.htm
http://www.aeriane.com/swiftlight.htm
Or the too expensive (unlicensed) ultralight sailplanes:
http://www.windward-performance.com/
http://www.ruppert-composite.ch/53125196a20692d01.html
Truck-towing is a cheaper alternative to aero-towing. With a
pay-out winch, you can get a mile high, from flat ground.
With any style of towing, you can launch from a dolly, and land
on your feet or land on wheels.
--
(Replies *will* bounce, unless you delete
the letter A from my email address)
Cheers,
Red
************************
P.S. Not relevant, but...
Free advice, and maybe worth the price,
for new and low-time HG pilots,
at my website:
http://www.xmission.com/~red/
Adiabatic wrote:
| Quote: |
I first started flying with standards in 1976 and flew for 17
years. I had always dreamed of flying as a kid and I really miss it.
Had to quit because of phisical and family reasons.
Some of the changes I have seen in the sport have been topless
(not like that gal from Sweden at the womans internat. championships)
and gps flight computers.
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| Back to top |
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Tim.Ward@AvidID.com
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Sep 16, 2005 9:34 pm Post subject: Re: What happens to old (not bold) hang-pilots |
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red wrote:
| Quote: | Adiabatic,
A fair number are moving to flat-land HG aero-towing, usually
with a Dragonfly ultralight as a tug, but some using trikes as
tugs. Check out Wallaby Ranch and Quest as the industry-standard
of HG tow-parks:
http://www.questairforce.com/
http://www.wallaby.com/
Some are building garage-technology airchairs:
http://home.att.net/~m--sandlin/bug.htm
http://web60.david.ebiz-webhosting.de/u1_fo_e3.htm
Some are building (unlicensed) ultralight sailplanes:
http://www.carbondragon.us/
Some have moved to the very expensive Rigid Wings:
http://www.hang-gliding.com/atos.html
http://www.continuo.com/marske/kits.htm
http://www.aeriane.com/swiftlight.htm
Or the too expensive (unlicensed) ultralight sailplanes:
http://www.windward-performance.com/
http://www.ruppert-composite.ch/53125196a20692d01.html
Truck-towing is a cheaper alternative to aero-towing. With a
pay-out winch, you can get a mile high, from flat ground.
With any style of towing, you can launch from a dolly, and land
on your feet or land on wheels.
--
(Replies *will* bounce, unless you delete
the letter A from my email address)
Cheers,
Red
************************
P.S. Not relevant, but...
Free advice, and maybe worth the price,
for new and low-time HG pilots,
at my website:
http://www.xmission.com/~red/
Adiabatic wrote:
I first started flying with standards in 1976 and flew for 17
years. I had always dreamed of flying as a kid and I really miss it.
Had to quit because of phisical and family reasons.
Some of the changes I have seen in the sport have been topless
(not like that gal from Sweden at the womans internat. championships)
and gps flight computers.
|
Or, a few have just moved over to licensed sailplanes.
You can pick up a used 1-26 or a Ka6 for less than the new price of a
rigid wing. The difference is, the sailplane won't lose half it's
value in two years.
Aerotowing is more expensive, of course, but overall, I've found the
costs of flying low-end sailplanes are not much more than mid-to-high
end hang gliding.
Tim Ward
It's different from hang gliders, of course, but it's still lots of fun.
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red
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Sep 17, 2005 12:33 am Post subject: Re: What happens to old (not bold) hang-pilots |
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Tim,
Yeah, I can agree on sailplane costs. Licensing, annuals,
tie-downs and hangar fees are my gripes, though.
I figure that HG flying across three decades has cost me about
fifty cents per day.
http://www.xmission.com/~red/history/history.htm
When I tell the average GA pilot that I have over 3000 hours,
they usually accuse me of being born rich or something.  I
grew up in the slums, man, and I have *nothing* that I did not
earn by the hour.
I could even live with the cost of aerotowing, if it was
-always- available. The local tow plane had engine trouble, and
was grounded for months. I would hate depending on others to
keep all their ducks in a row for me.
Still, all of that would not stop me from sailplaning, though;
what stops me is the relentless competitive attitudes (and
arrogance) of most sailplane pilots. If you didn't make X miles
today, then you're just a joke. I have asked intelligent
questions of SSA pilots (not because I did not know the answers,
but to evaluate their willingness to share knowledge), and I have
been disappointed if not pissed off by them *every* time. Why
would anybody want to be part of THAT?
I fly for FUN! I don't need somebody dumping water ballast into
the thermal that I'm heading for. I don't need people measuring
my fun against their distances. I really don't need people who
spend more on a toy than I can for a house, telling me that thus,
they are better pilots than I am. I have flown with eagles
within arm's reach, at peace with the world. I have had
cliff-swallows landing on my side-wires for a breather, at 4000
feet AGL over Utah's CanyonLands. My flyin' buddies fly
line-abreast with me, across country, to locate thermals, and
give the call to all, when anybody gets lift. At the HG pilots'
evening campfire, we share our experiences, teaching and
encouraging the newer HG pilots. Different? You can say that
again.
--
(Replies *will* bounce, unless you delete
the letter A from my email address)
Cheers,
Red
************************
P.S. Not relevant, but...
Free advice, and maybe worth the price,
for new and low-time HG pilots,
at my website:
http://www.xmission.com/~red/
[email]Tim.Ward (AT) AvidID (DOT) com[/email] wrote:
| Quote: |
red wrote:
Adiabatic,
A fair number are moving to flat-land HG aero-towing, usually
with a Dragonfly ultralight as a tug, but some using trikes as
tugs. Check out Wallaby Ranch and Quest as the industry-standard
of HG tow-parks:
http://www.questairforce.com/
http://www.wallaby.com/
Some are building garage-technology airchairs:
http://home.att.net/~m--sandlin/bug.htm
http://web60.david.ebiz-webhosting.de/u1_fo_e3.htm
Some are building (unlicensed) ultralight sailplanes:
http://www.carbondragon.us/
Some have moved to the very expensive Rigid Wings:
http://www.hang-gliding.com/atos.html
http://www.continuo.com/marske/kits.htm
http://www.aeriane.com/swiftlight.htm
Or the too expensive (unlicensed) ultralight sailplanes:
http://www.windward-performance.com/
http://www.ruppert-composite.ch/53125196a20692d01.html
Truck-towing is a cheaper alternative to aero-towing. With a
pay-out winch, you can get a mile high, from flat ground.
With any style of towing, you can launch from a dolly, and land
on your feet or land on wheels.
Cheers,
Red
Adiabatic wrote:
I first started flying with standards in 1976 and flew for 17
years. I had always dreamed of flying as a kid and I really miss it.
Had to quit because of phisical and family reasons.
Some of the changes I have seen in the sport have been topless
(not like that gal from Sweden at the womans internat. championships)
and gps flight computers.
Or, a few have just moved over to licensed sailplanes.
You can pick up a used 1-26 or a Ka6 for less than the new price of a
rigid wing. The difference is, the sailplane won't lose half it's
value in two years.
Aerotowing is more expensive, of course, but overall, I've found the
costs of flying low-end sailplanes are not much more than mid-to-high
end hang gliding.
Tim Ward
It's different from hang gliders, of course, but it's still lots of fun.
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Tim.Ward@AvidID.com
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Sep 19, 2005 9:48 pm Post subject: Re: What happens to old (not bold) hang-pilots |
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red wrote:
| Quote: | Tim,
Yeah, I can agree on sailplane costs. Licensing, annuals,
tie-downs and hangar fees are my gripes, though.
I figure that HG flying across three decades has cost me about
fifty cents per day.
http://www.xmission.com/~red/history/history.htm
When I tell the average GA pilot that I have over 3000 hours,
they usually accuse me of being born rich or something. I
grew up in the slums, man, and I have *nothing* that I did not
earn by the hour.
I could even live with the cost of aerotowing, if it was
-always- available. The local tow plane had engine trouble, and
was grounded for months. I would hate depending on others to
keep all their ducks in a row for me.
Still, all of that would not stop me from sailplaning, though;
what stops me is the relentless competitive attitudes (and
arrogance) of most sailplane pilots. If you didn't make X miles
today, then you're just a joke. I have asked intelligent
questions of SSA pilots (not because I did not know the answers,
but to evaluate their willingness to share knowledge), and I have
been disappointed if not pissed off by them *every* time. Why
would anybody want to be part of THAT?
I fly for FUN! I don't need somebody dumping water ballast into
the thermal that I'm heading for. I don't need people measuring
my fun against their distances. I really don't need people who
spend more on a toy than I can for a house, telling me that thus,
they are better pilots than I am. I have flown with eagles
within arm's reach, at peace with the world. I have had
cliff-swallows landing on my side-wires for a breather, at 4000
feet AGL over Utah's CanyonLands. My flyin' buddies fly
line-abreast with me, across country, to locate thermals, and
give the call to all, when anybody gets lift. At the HG pilots'
evening campfire, we share our experiences, teaching and
encouraging the newer HG pilots. Different? You can say that
again.
--
(Replies *will* bounce, unless you delete
the letter A from my email address)
Cheers,
Red
************************
P.S. Not relevant, but...
Free advice, and maybe worth the price,
for new and low-time HG pilots,
at my website:
http://www.xmission.com/~red/
|
Well, I have to agree on-the-cheap hang gliding can be much cheaper
than even inexpensive sailplanes. But:
Getting a license is a one-time deal. So is getting your hang rating.
Granted, the rating is _technically_ not a license, and not actually
required by law, but good luck flying an established site without one.
But you, like me, probably didn't have to pay much, because we learned
to fly in the Good Old Days (tm), may they never return.
Tiedowns and annuals do cost money, but: You can trailer home if you
like (and many people do, during the winter), and the difference in
depreciation between a hang glider and a sailplane can pay for a lot of
annuals. My last annual was a hundred dollars. I bought the 1-26E in
2001 for eight grand. If I had put that eight grand toward a rigid
wing or a flex wing, how much would I be able to get out of it now?
With the 1-26, I can get the whole eight grand, perhaps a bit more, due
to inflation. So while I'm out four or five hundred bucks for annuals,
I'm still ahead of the rigid wing.
Aerotows: can't argue. But there's a lot of hang glider pilots
dependent on aerotows now, too.
Glassholes: Yeah, there are some. Like you, I dunno why. I don't go
as far or as fast as they can, but this means I don't interact with
them much. You've gotta remember Sturgeon's Law: 90% of everything is
crap. There are nice guys who fly glass, and there are hang glider
pilots who are less than polite to newbies and wuffos. Need I even
bring up HG vs PG?
Flying buddies: Sailplanes are more separate, I think, mostly because
of one vehicle, one glider. There's not the cameraderie of 4 or 5 guys
taking off xc with a single driver.
I like hang gliders. But the luxury of glide slope control with
spoilers and a wheel under my butt when landing does have its
attraction.
Tim Ward
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Buffy
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Sep 25, 2005 10:08 am Post subject: Re: What happens to old (not bold) hang-pilots |
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I lurk, and dream.
On the wall behind my PC is a laminated barograph print of my best flight
ever, in Oz during the 11th Worlds.
A few beers down, and I can relive that flight in my mind.
I see the flats, the valleys, the ridges I flew over.
It was my first, and last 100 miler, the highest I've been in a hangglider,
the longest flight ever.
Read a book once about beings that lived forever, and after they've done it
all, they retreated into worlds they would build in their minds, really sad.
GroundPounder.
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red
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Sep 25, 2005 2:44 pm Post subject: Re: What happens to old (not bold) hang-pilots |
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GroundPounder,
Take a look at the airchairs, too:
http://home.att.net/~m--sandlin/bug.htm
There is something to be said for the ease of 3-axis controls,
very low launch/landing speeds, wheels, and HG LZs. These are
all aluminum, with fabric covering. A Goat(#1) just flew 60
miles (100 km) in California, and I would not doubt that you
could do better than that. Complete drawings are free, for two
different airchairs, on that web site; only hand tools are needed
for construction.
This ULF-1 is German certified, all wood, with fabric covering:
http://web60.david.ebiz-webhosting.de/u1_fo_e3.htm
but I think the plans cost a few hundred Euros for that.
I just got a payout winch, and when I retire (soon), I will
build an airchair, just for fun. Yahoo has a forum (free and
easy to use) for the airchair builders:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Airchairgroup
If you want a fully capable Computer Aided Drafting program to
view and print any drawings, in any standard CAD format, this is
TurboCAD; the program and the manuals are also free:
http://www.al-ki.com/tcad/download.php
Join a sailplane club, if all else fails. I might dislike
canopies, but those guys do cover the miles. Soaring clubs can
be quite reasonable in cost.
I agree; retreating into worlds built only in the mind would be
really sad.
--
(Replies *will* bounce, unless you delete
the letter A from my email address)
Cheers,
Red
************************
P.S. Not relevant, but...
Free advice, and maybe worth the price,
for new and low-time HG pilots,
at my website:
http://www.xmission.com/~red/
Buffy wrote:
| Quote: |
I lurk, and dream.
On the wall behind my PC is a laminated barograph print of my best flight
ever, in Oz during the 11th Worlds.
A few beers down, and I can relive that flight in my mind.
I see the flats, the valleys, the ridges I flew over.
It was my first, and last 100 miler, the highest I've been in a hangglider,
the longest flight ever.
Read a book once about beings that lived forever, and after they've done it
all, they retreated into worlds they would build in their minds, really sad.
GroundPounder.
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