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Ventus C vs B

 
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tango4
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 09, 2003 5:21 pm    Post subject: Ventus C vs B Reply with quote



Apart from the very sweet looking 17.6 m tips and tail ballast what are the
other differences between the Ventus B and the Ventus C.

Does the C have the same long cockpit as the B ?

I believe the C handles a lot better.

Ian




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Marc Ramsey
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 09, 2003 6:00 pm    Post subject: Re: Ventus C vs B Reply with quote



"tango4" <ventuspilot (AT) btopenworld (DOT) com> wrote...
Quote:
Apart from the very sweet looking 17.6 m tips and tail ballast what are
the
other differences between the Ventus B and the Ventus C.

The C has a different root fairing which improves performance and handling
at slow speeds. The trailing edge divebrakes are replaced by conventional
spoilers, which makes it a lot easier to properly seal the flaps.

Quote:
Does the C have the same long cockpit as the B ?

There are actually C/A and C/B variants. The C/B has the same cockpit as
the B, whereas the C/A has the shorter, narrower cockpit of the A. CMs and
CTs use the C/B fuselage.

Quote:
I believe the C handles a lot better.

Having owned a B and flown a C a few times, I'd say that, at best, the C
handles slightly better than the B. The C is a bit more stable in the roll
axis (particularly at thermalling speeds), and requires less control force
in roll. Ptich and yaw stability are pretty much the same. The C is
probably easier to land for the uninitiated, but can't match the Bs
outstanding short field landing capability.

Marc



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Stewart Kissel
Guest





PostPosted: Tue Sep 09, 2003 7:53 pm    Post subject: Re: Ventus C vs B Reply with quote

At 18:12 09 September 2003, Tango4 wrote:
Quote:
Apart from the very sweet looking 17.6 m tips and tail
ballast what are the
other differences between the Ventus B and the Ventus
C.

Marc covered the primary differences, having recently
shopped for a Ventii, there appears to be a significant
price difference between the two(B's and C's). Many
B's have had tail tanks added, and some have also ended
up with the 17.6 tips. Google RAS for some lengthy
B threads, and Al's site has a parallel thread on the
subject as well.
Quote:
Does the C have the same long cockpit as the B ?

I believe the C handles a lot better.

Ian







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Marc Ramsey
Guest





PostPosted: Tue Sep 09, 2003 9:28 pm    Post subject: Re: Ventus C vs B Reply with quote

"Todd Pattist" <tpattist (AT) DONTSPAMME (DOT) snet.net> wrote..
Quote:
The C has excellent large dive brakes that produce a steep
over-the-trees descent to the start of your short field,
but I suspect you are right that the flaps of the B provide
a slightly lower energy landing.

The B trailing edge divebrakes create more drag than conventional
divebrakes, plus increase the effective flap angle. This allows one to
maintain a 50 knot or so approach speed at up to a 45 degree angle of
descent. Done right, it's more like landing an HP than a conventional
flapped glider.

Marc



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Mike Borgelt
Guest





PostPosted: Wed Sep 10, 2003 12:08 am    Post subject: Re: Ventus C vs B Reply with quote

On Tue, 9 Sep 2003 11:00:25 -0700, "Marc Ramsey" <marc (AT) ranlog (DOT) com>
wrote:


Quote:
Having owned a B and flown a C a few times, I'd say that, at best, the C
handles slightly better than the B. The C is a bit more stable in the roll
axis (particularly at thermalling speeds), and requires less control force
in roll. Ptich and yaw stability are pretty much the same. The C is
probably easier to land for the uninitiated, but can't match the Bs
outstanding short field landing capability.

Marc

I own a C model with A fuselage and have flown several A and B models.


The C model has 3 degrees of dihedral and vs 2 degrees on the A and B
and is more stable in roll at thermalling speeds particularly with the
17.6 meter tips.
The full span flaperons on the C generate much less adverse yaw than
the ailerons on the B greatly reducing workload in turbulent air.

The top surface drives for the flaperons on the C model dramatically
reduce friction and improve linearity in the aileron control circuit
compared to the half baked Schempp excuse for an attempt at the
Glasflugel skew bar drive in the A and B model. With careful
maintenance that friction can be controlled. Winglets on the A or B
(15m) seem to improve aileron handling dramatically. The last A model
I flew had them and was quite pleasant compared to the other A and B
models I've flown.

Mike Borgelt

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Jim Phoenix
Guest





PostPosted: Wed Sep 10, 2003 2:28 am    Post subject: Re: Ventus C vs B Reply with quote

Todd,

Looking at Mike Newgard's C last weekend I noticed it has the external
aileron drives, I believe he said that arrangement was peculiar to the C.
Does your have the internal geometry drives (like my N3)?

Jim
"Todd Pattist" <tpattist (AT) DONTSPAMME (DOT) snet.net> wrote

Quote:
"Marc Ramsey" <marc (AT) ranlog (DOT) com> wrote:

The C has a different root fairing which improves performance and
handling
at slow speeds.

Also makes it much easier to tape (the little things are so
important :-)

There are actually C/A and C/B variants. The C/B has the same cockpit as
the B, whereas the C/A has the shorter, narrower cockpit of the A. CMs
and
CTs use the C/B fuselage.

Surprisingly, the Carl Herrold handicap rates the Ventus C
with the B fuselage (what I own) as performing better (dry)
than the Ventus C/A. It's presumably due to the slightly
higher weight.

Having owned a B and flown a C a few times, I'd say that, at best, the C
handles slightly better than the B.

I've never flown a B, but those who have that I've asked
have all agreed with "slightly better" One who owned a B
felt there was a larger difference that he noticed when he
lost some weight and flew it near the rear CG.

I was also told there was an airfoil difference, but I don't
know if that is true. Can anyone confirm or deny?

The C is a bit more stable in the roll
axis (particularly at thermalling speeds), and requires less control
force
in roll. Ptich and yaw stability are pretty much the same. The C is
probably easier to land for the uninitiated, but can't match the Bs
outstanding short field landing capability.

The C has excellent large dive brakes that produce a steep
over-the-trees descent to the start of your short field,
but I suspect you are right that the flaps of the B provide
a slightly lower energy landing.

I believe some earlier B models cannot be retrofitted to the
17.6 tips.


Todd Pattist - "WH" Ventus C
(Remove DONTSPAMME from address to email reply.)



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Jim Phoenix
Guest





PostPosted: Wed Sep 10, 2003 2:29 am    Post subject: Re: Ventus C vs B Reply with quote

You answered the question I posed to Todd. I wish my N3 had the top surface
drives.

Jim
"Mike Borgelt" <mborgelt (AT) borgeltinstruments (DOT) com> wrote

Quote:
On Tue, 9 Sep 2003 11:00:25 -0700, "Marc Ramsey" wrote:


Having owned a B and flown a C a few times, I'd say that, at best, the C
handles slightly better than the B. The C is a bit more stable in the
roll
axis (particularly at thermalling speeds), and requires less control
force
in roll. Ptich and yaw stability are pretty much the same. The C is
probably easier to land for the uninitiated, but can't match the Bs
outstanding short field landing capability.

Marc

I own a C model with A fuselage and have flown several A and B models.

The C model has 3 degrees of dihedral and vs 2 degrees on the A and B
and is more stable in roll at thermalling speeds particularly with the
17.6 meter tips.
The full span flaperons on the C generate much less adverse yaw than
the ailerons on the B greatly reducing workload in turbulent air.

The top surface drives for the flaperons on the C model dramatically
reduce friction and improve linearity in the aileron control circuit
compared to the half baked Schempp excuse for an attempt at the
Glasflugel skew bar drive in the A and B model. With careful
maintenance that friction can be controlled. Winglets on the A or B
(15m) seem to improve aileron handling dramatically. The last A model
I flew had them and was quite pleasant compared to the other A and B
models I've flown.

Mike Borgelt



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