AirTalk.org Aviation discussions newsgroups   Archives   FAQ   Search   Memberlist   Usergroups   Register   Profile   Log in to check your private messages   Log in  This years dawn to dusk Goto page 1, 2  Next          AirTalk.org Forum Index -> Flying related activities in the UK View previous topic :: View next topic   Author Message David Perry Guest Posted: Sun Mar 04, 2007 12:21 am    Post subject: This years dawn to dusk I'm thinking of doing the D2D this year. The theme my friend and I are looking at is "follies", but I wonder if there's anything better or more interesting around southern england that might make a more exciting D2D trawl. Anyone got any ideas?? david Back to top pietro Guest Posted: Mon Mar 05, 2007 2:13 pm    Post subject: Re: This years dawn to dusk David Perry schrieb: Quote: I'm thinking of doing the D2D this year. The theme my friend and I are looking at is "follies", but I wonder if there's anything better or more interesting around southern england that might make a more exciting D2D trawl. Anyone got any ideas?? david Yes - France. You'll find it all around southern England. Drop off at LFPL or LFPN and visit the Crazy Horse in Paris. You won't regret it Champagne and show - 110 Euros - worth every cent, but book early. The place is full of PPLs P. Back to top David Perry Guest Posted: Mon Mar 05, 2007 3:46 pm    Post subject: Re: This years dawn to dusk Hmm, technically I suppose France is not all around Southern England, but laterally offset to the south. And whether a documanted visit to le Chevaux Gaga would be acceptable to the dawn to Dusk committee is open to question. But I accept that as a project it would be most satisfactory! I appreciate the input!! D pietro: Quote: David Perry schrieb: I'm thinking of doing the D2D this year. The theme my friend and I are looking at is "follies", but I wonder if there's anything better or more interesting around southern england that might make a more exciting D2D trawl. Anyone got any ideas?? david Yes - France. You'll find it all around southern England. Drop off at LFPL or LFPN and visit the Crazy Horse in Paris. You won't regret it Champagne and show - 110 Euros - worth every cent, but book early. The place is full of PPLs P. Back to top pietro Guest Posted: Mon Mar 05, 2007 3:54 pm    Post subject: Re: This years dawn to dusk David Perry schrieb: Quote: Hmm, technically I suppose France is not all around Southern England, but laterally offset to the south. And whether a documanted visit to le Chevaux Gaga would be acceptable to the dawn to Dusk committee is open to question. But I accept that as a project it would be most satisfactory! I appreciate the input!! D pietro: David Perry schrieb: I'm thinking of doing the D2D this year. The theme my friend and I are looking at is "follies", but I wonder if there's anything better or more interesting around southern england that might make a more exciting D2D trawl. Anyone got any ideas?? david Yes - France. You'll find it all around southern England. Drop off at LFPL or LFPN and visit the Crazy Horse in Paris. You won't regret it Champagne and show - 110 Euros - worth every cent, but book early. The place is full of PPLs P. In that case you'd better make Dusk-til-Dawn P Back to top VinMan Guest Posted: Mon Mar 05, 2007 7:39 pm    Post subject: Re: This years dawn to dusk pietro a écrit : Quote: Drop off at LFPL or LFPN and visit the Crazy Horse in Paris. You won't regret it Champagne and show - 110 Euros - worth every cent, but book early. The place is full of PPLs Or.... drop off in Northern Paris (definitely NOT at Roissy or Le Bourget !) and visit the Musee Aéronautique et Espace (http://ns21156.ovh.net/~mae/) More interesting than a bunch of East-European nude girls... but that's only my suggestion ! -- VinMan http://croixdesabers.fr Croix des Abers Back to top Peter Guest Posted: Mon Mar 05, 2007 10:04 pm    Post subject: Re: This years dawn to dusk VinMan <Avro683_Retrouvezlenom (AT) free (DOT) fr> wrote: Quote: More interesting than a bunch of East-European nude girls... but that's only my suggestion ! A bunch of East European (not Slovak though) nude girls is far more interesting than a bunch of English nude girls, and that is an objectively verifiable statement of fact! Back to top David Perry Guest Posted: Mon Mar 05, 2007 10:44 pm    Post subject: Re: This years dawn to dusk Whilst I would relish the challenge of proving you either wrong OR right, I wonder whether this is really the stuff of rec.aviation. But while we are here, HOW can you objectively verify that nude East Euroland girls are more interesting than nude English ones? Surely what one finds interesting is entirely SUBjective? Or perhaps you are simply having a bash at the English in general? David Peter: Quote: VinMan <Avro683_Retrouvezlenom (AT) free (DOT) fr> wrote: More interesting than a bunch of East-European nude girls... but that's only my suggestion ! A bunch of East European (not Slovak though) nude girls is far more interesting than a bunch of English nude girls, and that is an objectively verifiable statement of fact! Back to top pietro Guest Posted: Tue Mar 06, 2007 5:51 pm    Post subject: Re: This years dawn to dusk VinMan schrieb: Quote: pietro a écrit : Drop off at LFPL or LFPN and visit the Crazy Horse in Paris. You won't regret it Champagne and show - 110 Euros - worth every cent, but book early. The place is full of PPLs Or.... drop off in Northern Paris (definitely NOT at Roissy or Le Bourget !) and visit the Musee Aéronautique et Espace (http://ns21156.ovh.net/~mae/) More interesting than a bunch of East-European nude girls... but that's only my suggestion ! Hello VinMan, here's a question for you. Initiating at Dieppe how would you route to LFPL? P. Back to top VinMan Guest Posted: Wed Mar 07, 2007 6:11 pm    Post subject: Re: This years dawn to dusk pietro a écrit : Quote: Hello VinMan, here's a question for you. Initiating at Dieppe how would you route to LFPL? LFPL to Dieppe : 87.5 NM and magnetic track 317° In the real world you'll have to fly around Paris, and I've never done that. Look for it on the Net, and I'll ask it on fr.rec.aviation. A guy will have the answer, I'll keep you posted on the issue. -- VinMan http://croixdesabers.fr Croix des Abers Back to top VinMan Guest Posted: Thu Mar 08, 2007 3:22 am    Post subject: Re: This years dawn to dusk pietro a écrit : Quote: Initiating at Dieppe how would you route to LFPL? Here's the reply I just had on fr.rec.aviation : Dieppe -> Pontoise puis a partir de pontoise grosso-modo un cap 90 pour rester dans le couloir de classe G a partit de la sortie de pontoise. Attention zone de classe A à droite (Paris) et zone de Creil à gauche (militaires), c'est vraiment un couloir. suivre ça en gros jusqu'au plessis. le contournement de la classe A (Paris) oblige à suivre après Le Plessis le QDM 149° mini de CLM (VOR de Coulommiers) jusqu'à 4,5 NM au Nord du terrain de Meaux. Ensuite, on se reporte généralement verticale Meaux pour ensuite prendre un cap voisin de 240° en évitant les plus grosses zones urbanisées et surtout Disneyland jusqu'à Ferrières (point d'entrée de Lognes à 3,5 NM à l'Est). Which, in Shakespeare's language would give : * Fly Dieppe-Pontoise (LFPT) * roughly heading 090° to remain in class G airspace when exiting Pontoise area. Mind the class A on your right (city of Paris) and Creil military airspace on the left : it's a real corridor you have to follow until Le Plessis airfield. * After Le Plessis, avoiding Paris class A airspace forces you to fly CLM's (VOR of Coulommiers) QDM 149° until 4,5 NM North of Meaux airfield. * Then usual position report is overhead Meaux airfield * roughly heading 240° avoiding the larger urban areas and Disneyland until Ferrières, Lognes' entry point (3,5 to the East) Never flew there myself, I just translated the reply I got. Fly safe ! -- VinMan http://croixdesabers.fr Croix des Abers Back to top pietro Guest Posted: Thu Mar 08, 2007 4:20 pm    Post subject: Re: This years dawn to dusk VinMan schrieb: Quote: pietro a écrit : Hello VinMan, here's a question for you. Initiating at Dieppe how would you route to LFPL? LFPL to Dieppe : 87.5 NM and magnetic track 317° In the real world you'll have to fly around Paris, and I've never done that. Look for it on the Net, and I'll ask it on fr.rec.aviation. A guy will have the answer, I'll keep you posted on the issue. I tried it with PFMS, which is quite conservative. Using the restrictions: Avoid Classes A & B and restricted areas Stay above 1000 ft AGL The answer was: Not able to establish a route. Maybe to the south of Paris via Epernon and LFFQ. Then up to LFPL.? P. Back to top Peter Guest Posted: Fri Mar 09, 2007 1:24 pm    Post subject: Re: This years dawn to dusk I hope this doesn't sound like a stupid answer but it's no use asking in usenet how to plan a VFR route in some country. One has to carry the charts anyway, so why not buy them. One can use the 1:500k IGN charts (quite pretty and very clear but good only to about 5000ft, which is very limiting for France where VFR flight can be done freely up to FL105 and with reasonably easy clearance to FL195 or so) or the 1:1M official SIA charts. It's indeed hard to plan VFR routes in France, due to the military airspace, but most of that is at a low level and usually one can work something out at 2000-3000ft. It can take an hour or two though... especially with the SIA charts which have a separate booklet telling you the vertical extents of the mil airspace. However, there are easy routes in France which lie a bit higher up, FL065+ is most cases, and I have described these at the end of here http://www.peter2000.co.uk/aviation/leax2/index.html They are the easiest way to get around France; the caveat is that if you end up at the destination at FL065, above a solid overcast, you have a slight problem with making a "VFR" arrival So you need to be clever with the weather - whereas a pilot flying *below* the clouds can just scud run and remain VFR (and they get killed from time to time by flying into hills in poor vis, etc). The SIA charts can be bought from UK pilot shops, or (cheaper) from SIA direct and then you get the mid-yearly update too. The general URL is http://www.sia.aviation-civile.gouv.fr/default_uk.htm and if you click on (Online Shop) Charts, it's at the top of the list at 29 Euros. Afterwards (a year later) they mail you an invite to update and you go to Subscription Renewal... Back to top pietro Guest Posted: Fri Mar 09, 2007 1:46 pm    Post subject: Re: This years dawn to dusk Peter schrieb: Quote: I hope this doesn't sound like a stupid answer but it's no use asking in usenet how to plan a VFR route in some country. One has to carry the charts anyway, so why not buy them. One can use the 1:500k IGN charts (quite pretty and very clear but good only to about 5000ft, which is very limiting for France where VFR flight can be done freely up to FL105 and with reasonably easy clearance to FL195 or so) or the 1:1M official SIA charts. It's indeed hard to plan VFR routes in France, due to the military airspace, but most of that is at a low level and usually one can work something out at 2000-3000ft. It can take an hour or two though... especially with the SIA charts which have a separate booklet telling you the vertical extents of the mil airspace. However, there are easy routes in France which lie a bit higher up, FL065+ is most cases, and I have described these at the end of here http://www.peter2000.co.uk/aviation/leax2/index.html They are the easiest way to get around France; the caveat is that if you end up at the destination at FL065, above a solid overcast, you have a slight problem with making a "VFR" arrival So you need to be clever with the weather - whereas a pilot flying *below* the clouds can just scud run and remain VFR (and they get killed from time to time by flying into hills in poor vis, etc). The SIA charts can be bought from UK pilot shops, or (cheaper) from SIA direct and then you get the mid-yearly update too. The general URL is http://www.sia.aviation-civile.gouv.fr/default_uk.htm and if you click on (Online Shop) Charts, it's at the top of the list at 29 Euros. Afterwards (a year later) they mail you an invite to update and you go to Subscription Renewal... Thanks for your input Peter. Getting around Paris isn't quite as easy as one might think. Actually I do about 60% of my hours in French airspace and I am a member of a flying club in eastern France. The low level military corridors are as you pointed out, quite numerous. By the way, what would your choice of route be from Dieppe to Emerainville? P. Back to top VinMan Guest Posted: Fri Mar 09, 2007 3:01 pm    Post subject: Re: This years dawn to dusk pietro a écrit : Quote: I tried it with PFMS, which is quite conservative. A planning software ? Quote: Using the restrictions: Avoid Classes A & B and restricted areas I don't think we have any B airspace in France. A, C, D, E and G only. Quote: Stay above 1000 ft AGL Not always possible, unfortunately, due to airspace avoidance constraints. When we flew (over water) along the Roma TMA, we weren't allowed to go higher than 1500 feet.... -- VinMan http://croixdesabers.fr Croix des Abers Back to top VinMan Guest Posted: Fri Mar 09, 2007 3:05 pm    Post subject: Re: This years dawn to dusk Additional information, freshly translated from FRA : French : Donc de pontoise on passe bien entre les TMA de Creil et de Roissy...: "Transit creil (attention alt si actif), et si actif transit publié sur la VFR RP par le TGV (et plus l'autoroute) jusqu'à SE et Le Plessis" Aprés le plessis : "puis ensuite tu tournes au raz de la TMA" "C'est pas évident évident dans le sens où la moindre erreur t'envoie dans la TMA et avec CDG er ORY dans le coin... Vaut mieux avoir un bon moving map ou un instructeur" Mieux vaut se reporte à ça : http://sia2.aviation-civile.gouv.fr/cgi-bin/siavpc2.storefront/45efb7340085ec702740d417a21c06d9/Product/View/4127 --------------------------------------------------------------------------- English : * after Pontoise you fly between Creil and Roissy TMA (Terminal Area) * Creil transit si published on the "VFR Region Parisienne" chart. It's partly along the TGV (fast train) rails until Sierra Echo point (probably South East point) and Le Plessis. * then turn and stay outside the TMA * Not an easy thing to do, remaining clear of Roissy or Orly TMA. Better have a moving map GPS or an instructor. * Here's the appropriate chart : http://sia2.aviation-civile.gouv.fr/cgi-bin/siavpc2.storefront/45efb7340085ec702740d417a21c06d9/Product/View/4127 -- VinMan http://croixdesabers.fr Croix des Abers Back to top Display posts from previous: All Posts1 Day7 Days2 Weeks1 Month3 Months6 Months1 Year Oldest FirstNewest First         AirTalk.org Forum Index -> Flying related activities in the UK All times are GMT Goto page 1, 2  Next Page 1 of 2   Jump to: Select a forum Aviation----------------alt.aviationAviation safety EnhancementPlanes, gliders and flying in AustraliaAviation et pilotage (Français)rec.aviationAviation (Aerobatics)Hot air, gas balloons and airshipsHang-gliding, paragliding, foot-launched flightAircraft Design & BuildingInstrument Flight RulesAviation (Classifieds)Military AircraftNaval AviationAviation (Miscellaneous Topics)Owning AirplanesAviators (General Discussions)Aviation related productsAircraft RestorationHelicopters and rotary wing aircraftsFlight SimulationSailplanesAviation (Students)Light aircraftFlying related activities in the UK Airports----------------alt.airportsEdinburgh Airport Glasgow Airport Humberside Airport Luton Airport Aberdeen Airport Glasgow Prestwick Airport  You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2006 phpBB Group SEO toolkit © 2004-2006 webmedic.