AirTalk.org Aviation discussions newsgroups   Archives   FAQ   Search   Memberlist   Usergroups   Register   Profile   Log in to check your private messages   Log in  Mooney M20C Questions Goto page 1, 2  Next          AirTalk.org Forum Index -> Owning Airplanes View previous topic :: View next topic   Author Message Greg Esres Guest Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2007 8:10 pm    Post subject: Mooney M20C Questions On the hydraulic flaps, does the position of the silver pump handle have any bearing on whether or not the hydraulic pressure leaks out of the flap, once they are extended? (The POH doesn't say that it does.) There is some mechanism underneath the instrument panel that has some adjustment for the Positive Control. What does it do, exactly? Back to top Ron Rosenfeld Guest Posted: Thu Apr 19, 2007 5:47 am    Post subject: Re: Mooney M20C Questions On 18 Apr 2007 08:10:13 -0700, Greg Esres <gesres (AT) boundvortex (DOT) com> wrote: Quote: On the hydraulic flaps, does the position of the silver pump handle have any bearing on whether or not the hydraulic pressure leaks out of the flap, once they are extended? (The POH doesn't say that it does.) Yes. That's how you retract the flaps. Quote: There is some mechanism underneath the instrument panel that has some adjustment for the Positive Control. What does it do, exactly? I don't recall anything at all like that in either the '68C or the '65E models with which I have experience. --ron Back to top Greg Esres Guest Posted: Thu Apr 19, 2007 6:12 am    Post subject: Re: Mooney M20C Questions <<the pump handle position didn't matter. (I always unconsciously pulled it back to the top stop whenever I used it however.) >> That's how I read the POH. However, the flaps seem to creep up sometimes. <<I never saw anything labeled "Positive Control" on the bird I flew.>> I thought they all had this? Probably no label....built-in wing leveler. Thanks Back to top Greg Esres Guest Posted: Thu Apr 19, 2007 6:12 am    Post subject: Re: Mooney M20C Questions <<Yes. That's how you retract the flaps.>> No, the retraction mechanism is a little flap-like lever *above* the silver handle. Lifting it up releases the hydraulic pressure. When it's down, the pressure should remain. The silver handle I'm talking about is the pumping handle. The flaps are coming up some times when I'm not looking and I haven't established a pattern yet. ;-) On Apr 18, 7:47 pm, Ron Rosenfeld <ronrosenf...@nospam.org> wrote: Quote: On 18 Apr 2007 08:10:13 -0700, Greg Esres <ges...@boundvortex.com> wrote: On the hydraulic flaps, does the position of the silver pump handle have any bearing on whether or not the hydraulic pressure leaks out of the flap, once they are extended? (The POH doesn't say that it does.) Yes. That's how you retract the flaps. There is some mechanism underneath the instrument panel that has some adjustment for the Positive Control. What does it do, exactly? I don't recall anything at all like that in either the '68C or the '65E models with which I have experience. --ron Back to top Jim Carter Guest Posted: Thu Apr 19, 2007 6:12 am    Post subject: Re: Mooney M20C Questions Although I have relatively little experience in this aircraft, the silver metal pump handle pumps the flaps down when the flap "lever" is in the down position, and the pump handle position didn't matter. (I always unconsciously pulled it back to the top stop whenever I used it however.) The flap "lever" is beside or immediately above the pump handle - I don't remember for sure. I never saw anything labeled "Positive Control" on the bird I flew. -- Jim Carter Rogers, Arkansas "Greg Esres" <gesres (AT) boundvortex (DOT) com> wrote in message news:1176909013.791788.33680 (AT) y80g2000hsf (DOT) googlegroups.com... On the hydraulic flaps, does the position of the silver pump handle have any bearing on whether or not the hydraulic pressure leaks out of the flap, once they are extended? (The POH doesn't say that it does.) There is some mechanism underneath the instrument panel that has some adjustment for the Positive Control. What does it do, exactly? Back to top Don Tuite Guest Posted: Thu Apr 19, 2007 6:12 am    Post subject: Re: Mooney M20C Questions On 18 Apr 2007 20:27:36 -0700, Greg Esres <gesres (AT) boundvortex (DOT) com> wrote: Quote: the pump handle position didn't matter. (I always unconsciously pulled it back to the top stop whenever I used it however.) That's how I read the POH. However, the flaps seem to creep up sometimes. I never saw anything labeled "Positive Control" on the bird I flew. I thought they all had this? Probably no label....built-in wing leveler. brushed-aluminum pushbuttojn on left horn of yoke? extra knob on turn-and-sllip? Don Back to top Ron Rosenfeld Guest Posted: Thu Apr 19, 2007 8:03 pm    Post subject: Re: Mooney M20C Questions On 18 Apr 2007 19:16:58 -0700, Greg Esres <gesres (AT) boundvortex (DOT) com> wrote: Quote: Yes. That's how you retract the flaps. No, the retraction mechanism is a little flap-like lever *above* the silver handle. Lifting it up releases the hydraulic pressure. When it's down, the pressure should remain. The silver handle I'm talking about is the pumping handle. Oh, I misread. It shouldn't make any difference, but I've always left it fully down (out of the way). On occasion, during pre-flight, it might be in an intermediate position, though. I'd suspect a leak in the hydraulic system. Quote: The flaps are coming up some times when I'm not looking and I haven't established a pattern yet. ;-) On Apr 18, 7:47 pm, Ron Rosenfeld <ronrosenf...@nospam.org> wrote: On 18 Apr 2007 08:10:13 -0700, Greg Esres <ges...@boundvortex.com> wrote: On the hydraulic flaps, does the position of the silver pump handle have any bearing on whether or not the hydraulic pressure leaks out of the flap, once they are extended? (The POH doesn't say that it does.) Yes. That's how you retract the flaps. There is some mechanism underneath the instrument panel that has some adjustment for the Positive Control. What does it do, exactly? I don't recall anything at all like that in either the '68C or the '65E models with which I have experience. --ron --ron Back to top Greg Esres Guest Posted: Thu Apr 19, 2007 9:20 pm    Post subject: Re: Mooney M20C Questions Ron Rosenfield wrote: <<I'd suspect a leak in the hydraulic system. >> That's kinda what I was thinking. Thank you. Back to top Greg Esres Guest Posted: Thu Apr 19, 2007 9:22 pm    Post subject: Re: Mooney M20C Questions Don Tuite wrote: <<brushed-aluminum pushbuttojn on left horn of yoke?>> Yes <<extra knob on turn-and-sllip? >> Hmmm, I don't think so. There is such a knob on the yoke itself that is aileron trim. I don't think the system uses the panel turn & slip; it has its own internal equivalent of a turn coordinator, according to the documentation I've seen. Back to top Robert M. Gary Guest Posted: Thu Apr 19, 2007 10:06 pm    Post subject: Re: Mooney M20C Questions On Apr 18, 8:27 pm, Greg Esres <ges...@boundvortex.com> wrote: Quote: the pump handle position didn't matter. (I always unconsciously pulled it back to the top stop whenever I used it however.) That's how I read the POH. However, the flaps seem to creep up sometimes. I never saw anything labeled "Positive Control" on the bird I flew. I thought they all had this? Probably no label....built-in wing leveler. Thanks I'd instruction in a lot of Mooneys but I've not seen any that didn't have at least the vac wing leveler autopilot. All the way back in the early days of the C they had the wing leveler, and later offered an upgrade to the electric Pathfinder system. The PC system had a check valve as I recall to prevent leaks in the PC system (which most planes have) from causing vac failures. Up until 1977 Mooneys were certified with full-time autopilots (maybe the only plane so certified). The autopilot was designed to be on all the time unless the pilot actively held down a button to disable it. Turns are made by selecting left/ right on the controller. However, the A/P is easily over powered. -Robert, CFII Back to top Don Tuite Guest Posted: Thu Apr 19, 2007 10:36 pm    Post subject: Re: Mooney M20C Questions On 19 Apr 2007 09:22:44 -0700, Greg Esres <gesres (AT) boundvortex (DOT) com> wrote: Quote: Don Tuite wrote: brushed-aluminum pushbuttojn on left horn of yoke? Yes extra knob on turn-and-sllip? Hmmm, I don't think so. There is such a knob on the yoke itself that is aileron trim. I don't think the system uses the panel turn & slip; it has its own internal equivalent of a turn coordinator, according to the documentation I've seen. OK My recollections are nearly 40 years old. Don Back to top karl gruber Guest Posted: Fri Apr 20, 2007 12:02 am    Post subject: Re: Mooney M20C Questions "> have) from causing vac failures. Up until 1977 Mooneys were certified Quote: with full-time autopilots (maybe the only plane so certified). And they need one. The Mooney has to be the most unresponsive airplane made. It flys like a truck! Karl Bought new 201 in 1977 Back to top Jim Carter Guest Posted: Fri Apr 20, 2007 6:12 am    Post subject: Re: Mooney M20C Questions Ok - I'll accept the wing leveler (which you overrode with a button on the yoke if you didn't want to fly a Mack Truck). However I've never seen it called Positive Control before - might be a different year model. -- Jim Carter Rogers, Arkansas "Greg Esres" <gesres (AT) boundvortex (DOT) com> wrote in message news:1176953256.786250.299230 (AT) y80g2000hsf (DOT) googlegroups.com... <<the pump handle position didn't matter. (I always unconsciously pulled it back to the top stop whenever I used it however.) >> That's how I read the POH. However, the flaps seem to creep up sometimes. <<I never saw anything labeled "Positive Control" on the bird I flew.>> I thought they all had this? Probably no label....built-in wing leveler. Thanks Back to top Jim Carter Guest Posted: Fri Apr 20, 2007 6:12 am    Post subject: Re: Mooney M20C Questions Gosh Karl - I thought the M20 flew pretty nicely when you release the wing leveler. Nothing like a C182 or C206 - hell during the preflight I think we are supposed to check the delivery chute on the tail to make sure it hasn't clogged from the last load of concrete it hauled. -- Jim Carter Rogers, Arkansas "karl gruber" <removeskywagon (AT) gmail (DOT) com> wrote in message news:f08ebu$qt$1 (AT) aioe (DOT) org... "> have) from causing vac failures. Up until 1977 Mooneys were certified Quote: with full-time autopilots (maybe the only plane so certified). And they need one. The Mooney has to be the most unresponsive airplane made. It flys like a truck! Karl Bought new 201 in 1977 Back to top Jim Carter Guest Posted: Fri Apr 20, 2007 6:12 am    Post subject: Re: Mooney M20C Questions If you're not having to add fluid, and you're probably not then the issue is the flap valve leaking through and relieving the pressure that keeps the flaps extended. We had that problem one year and a quick rebuild of the valve during the annual fixed the issue. -- Jim Carter Rogers, Arkansas "Ron Rosenfeld" <ronrosenfeld (AT) nospam (DOT) org> wrote in message news:l21f23hptkma2m090uultop2kvavp9ssbf (AT) 4ax (DOT) com... On 18 Apr 2007 19:16:58 -0700, Greg Esres <gesres (AT) boundvortex (DOT) com> wrote: Quote: Yes. That's how you retract the flaps. No, the retraction mechanism is a little flap-like lever *above* the silver handle. Lifting it up releases the hydraulic pressure. When it's down, the pressure should remain. The silver handle I'm talking about is the pumping handle. Oh, I misread. It shouldn't make any difference, but I've always left it fully down (out of the way). On occasion, during pre-flight, it might be in an intermediate position, though. I'd suspect a leak in the hydraulic system. Quote: The flaps are coming up some times when I'm not looking and I haven't established a pattern yet. ;-) On Apr 18, 7:47 pm, Ron Rosenfeld <ronrosenf...@nospam.org> wrote: On 18 Apr 2007 08:10:13 -0700, Greg Esres <ges...@boundvortex.com> wrote: On the hydraulic flaps, does the position of the silver pump handle have any bearing on whether or not the hydraulic pressure leaks out of the flap, once they are extended? (The POH doesn't say that it does.) Yes. That's how you retract the flaps. There is some mechanism underneath the instrument panel that has some adjustment for the Positive Control. What does it do, exactly? I don't recall anything at all like that in either the '68C or the '65E models with which I have experience. --ron --ron Back to top Display posts from previous: All Posts1 Day7 Days2 Weeks1 Month3 Months6 Months1 Year Oldest FirstNewest First         AirTalk.org Forum Index -> Owning Airplanes All times are GMT Goto page 1, 2  Next Page 1 of 2   Jump to: Select a forum Aviation----------------alt.aviationAviation safety EnhancementPlanes, gliders and flying in AustraliaAviation et pilotage (Français)rec.aviationAviation (Aerobatics)Hot air, gas balloons and airshipsHang-gliding, paragliding, foot-launched flightAircraft Design & BuildingInstrument Flight RulesAviation (Classifieds)Military AircraftNaval AviationAviation (Miscellaneous Topics)Owning AirplanesAviators (General Discussions)Aviation related productsAircraft RestorationHelicopters and rotary wing aircraftsFlight SimulationSailplanesAviation (Students)Light aircraftFlying related activities in the UK Airports----------------alt.airportsEdinburgh Airport Glasgow Airport Humberside Airport Luton Airport Aberdeen Airport Glasgow Prestwick Airport  You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2006 phpBB Group SEO toolkit © 2004-2006 webmedic.