AirTalk.org Aviation discussions newsgroups   Archives   FAQ   Search   Memberlist   Usergroups   Register   Profile   Log in to check your private messages   Log in  Nickname for Apache helicopter          AirTalk.org Forum Index -> Military Aircraft View previous topic :: View next topic   Author Message Jim Beaver Guest Posted: Sun May 20, 2007 6:11 am    Post subject: Nickname for Apache helicopter An online article suggests, without citation or reference, that the U.S. Marine Corps nicknamed its Apache helicopter (through three models) as "The Duke," presumably in honor of actor John Wayne. I cannot find corroboration for this statement in web searches. Has anyone here with either first-hand or citable evidence to support it ever heard this story? Jim Beaver Back to top Ed Guest Posted: Sun May 20, 2007 6:11 am    Post subject: Re: Nickname for Apache helicopter "Jim Beaver" <jumblejim (AT) prodigy (DOT) spam> wrote in message news:TLO3i.3718$4Y.2776 (AT) newssvr19 (DOT) news.prodigy.net... Quote: An online article suggests, without citation or reference, that the U.S. Marine Corps nicknamed its Apache helicopter (through three models) as "The Duke," presumably in honor of actor John Wayne. I cannot find corroboration for this statement in web searches. Has anyone here with either first-hand or citable evidence to support it ever heard this story? Jim Beaver Not trying to be ignorant here, but if this is the AH64 Apache, isn't the Army the only user, not the Marines?? Back to top Guest Posted: Sun May 20, 2007 6:11 am    Post subject: Re: Nickname for Apache helicopter On May 19, 7:56 pm, "Jim Beaver" <jumble...@prodigy.spam> wrote: Quote: An online article suggests, without citation or reference, that the U.S. Marine Corps nicknamed its Apache helicopter (through three models) as "The Duke," presumably in honor of actor John Wayne. I cannot find corroboration for this statement in web searches. Has anyone here with either first-hand or citable evidence to support it ever heard this story? Jim Beaver Is this the article you're talking about? http://www.pleonast.com/user/jungleman If you scroll down to the John Wayne part, you get to this: "The Marine Corp named three models of their prototype Apache Helicopter "The Duke". " Back to top Jim Beaver Guest Posted: Sun May 20, 2007 6:11 am    Post subject: Re: Nickname for Apache helicopter "Ed" <azemc (AT) nospamcox (DOT) net> wrote in message news:jMP3i.318523$JN6.168888 (AT) newsfe17 (DOT) phx... Quote: "Jim Beaver" <jumblejim (AT) prodigy (DOT) spam> wrote in message news:TLO3i.3718$4Y.2776 (AT) newssvr19 (DOT) news.prodigy.net... An online article suggests, without citation or reference, that the U.S. Marine Corps nicknamed its Apache helicopter (through three models) as "The Duke," presumably in honor of actor John Wayne. I cannot find corroboration for this statement in web searches. Has anyone here with either first-hand or citable evidence to support it ever heard this story? Jim Beaver Not trying to be ignorant here, but if this is the AH64 Apache, isn't the Army the only user, not the Marines?? That's one of the reasons I'm trying to confirm the statement in the article. Despite being an ex-Marine, I have no idea as to the answer. (When I left the Marines, the Huey was pretty new.) Jim Beaver Back to top Leadfoot Guest Posted: Sun May 20, 2007 6:11 am    Post subject: Re: Nickname for Apache helicopter "Jim Beaver" <jumblejim (AT) prodigy (DOT) spam> wrote in message news:PpQ3i.1193$C96.117 (AT) newssvr23 (DOT) news.prodigy.net... Quote: "Ed" <azemc (AT) nospamcox (DOT) net> wrote in message news:jMP3i.318523$JN6.168888 (AT) newsfe17 (DOT) phx... "Jim Beaver" <jumblejim (AT) prodigy (DOT) spam> wrote in message news:TLO3i.3718$4Y.2776 (AT) newssvr19 (DOT) news.prodigy.net... An online article suggests, without citation or reference, that the U.S. Marine Corps nicknamed its Apache helicopter (through three models) as "The Duke," presumably in honor of actor John Wayne. I cannot find corroboration for this statement in web searches. Has anyone here with either first-hand or citable evidence to support it ever heard this story? Jim Beaver Not trying to be ignorant here, but if this is the AH64 Apache, isn't the Army the only user, not the Marines?? That's one of the reasons I'm trying to confirm the statement in the article. Despite being an ex-Marine, I have no idea as to the answer. (When I left the Marines, the Huey was pretty new.) Jim Beaver I worked briefly at the Apache facory in Mesa AZ rewiring the A model into Longbows or D model, I had opportunities to chat with people who had been with the program from the start. This included the Chief Test pilot who made a point of telling everyone how he let Sen Barry Goldwater handle the flight controls while the competition (the Commanche?) wouldn't let the senator handle the controls. Supposedly this was why the Apache won the contract. He wound up pissing someone off, got fired and then sued and got his "job" back however while they had to pay him as a chief test pilot they didn't have to let him work as one so they made him a line supervisor in the factory who was my boss for an even briefer time. What I heard was that they had done everything on paper to navalise the AH-64 and then made an offer to the Marines but that was as far as it went, PAPER. My understanding was as far as navalisation goes it was easier to stick with the Cobra and upgrade the weapons and avionics than to make an an Apache that could withstand long periods in a salt water environment. I'm guessing but the blades were probably the biggest hang up. You'd have to mod them to fold and make sure they could handle a salt water environment. There are 8 or so Apaches with tie-down rings welded to the bottom of the fuselage. This was done for the invasion of Granada in 1983. Can't say their weren't Marine prototypes built but based on what I heard I doubt it. Quote: Back to top Jim Beaver Guest Posted: Sun May 20, 2007 6:11 am    Post subject: Re: Nickname for Apache helicopter <dumpster4 (AT) hotmail (DOT) com> wrote in message news:1179632192.346626.30490 (AT) q75g2000hsh (DOT) googlegroups.com... Quote: On May 19, 7:56 pm, "Jim Beaver" <jumble...@prodigy.spam> wrote: An online article suggests, without citation or reference, that the U.S. Marine Corps nicknamed its Apache helicopter (through three models) as "The Duke," presumably in honor of actor John Wayne. I cannot find corroboration for this statement in web searches. Has anyone here with either first-hand or citable evidence to support it ever heard this story? Jim Beaver Is this the article you're talking about? http://www.pleonast.com/user/jungleman If you scroll down to the John Wayne part, you get to this: "The Marine Corp named three models of their prototype Apache Helicopter "The Duke". " No, that's lifted, along with some other stuff, word for word from the article I refer to (which is on Wikipedia). I'm looking for solid support for the statement. Haven't found it yet. Jim Beaver Back to top Rob Arndt Guest Posted: Sun May 20, 2007 6:11 am    Post subject: Re: Nickname for Apache helicopter On May 19, 9:03�pm, "Ed" <a...@nospamcox.net> wrote: Quote: "Jim Beaver" <jumble...@prodigy.spam> wrote in message news:TLO3i.3718$4Y.2776 (AT) newssvr19 (DOT) news.prodigy.net...> An online article suggests, without citation or reference, that the U.S. Marine Corps nicknamed its Apache helicopter (through three models) as "The Duke," presumably in honor of actor John Wayne. I cannot find corroboration for this statement in web searches.  Has anyone here with either first-hand or citable evidence to support it ever heard this story? Jim Beaver Not trying to be ignorant here, but if this is the AH64 Apache, isn't the Army the only user, not the Marines?? And old article from 2003 on the Apache and its vunerabilites which is still valid in 2007: http://www.slate.com/id/2081906/ Iraqi insurgents call the Longbow version the "Broken Bow" and they are not completely unjustified. This is supposed to be the premiere armored attack helo on the frontline battlefield forward of our AFVs and infantry. Instead, they need USAF air cover and rarely are far from the troops. When they do go out by themselves they are vunerable to simple AK-47 and RPG fire. Many have been downed and a large amount damaged enough not to be air worthy until after extensive repairs- and this is against untrained mobs with small arms. Imagine fighting the Russians, Chinese, or anyone with equal firepower, missiles, accurate radar, and emerging anti-helo technologies... The "Patch-Me" helo needs help... Rob Back to top Leadfoot Guest Posted: Mon May 21, 2007 6:11 am    Post subject: Re: Nickname for Apache helicopter <deemsbill (AT) aol (DOT) com> wrote in message news:1179696217.277910.126610 (AT) x18g2000prd (DOT) googlegroups.com... Quote: On May 20, 12:40 am, Rob Arndt <teuton...@aol.com> wrote: On May 19, 9:03?pm, "Ed" <a...@nospamcox.net> wrote: "Jim Beaver" <jumble...@prodigy.spam> wrote in message news:TLO3i.3718$4Y.2776 (AT) newssvr19 (DOT) news.prodigy.net...> An online article suggests, without citation or reference, that the U.S. Marine Corps nicknamed its Apache helicopter (through three models) as "The Duke," presumably in honor of actor John Wayne. I cannot find corroboration for this statement in web searches. ?Has anyone here with either first-hand or citable evidence to support it ever heard this story? Jim Beaver Not trying to be ignorant here, but if this is the AH64 Apache, isn't the Army the only user, not the Marines?? And old article from 2003 on the Apache and its vunerabilites which is still valid in 2007:http://www.slate.com/id/2081906/ Iraqi insurgents call the Longbow version the "Broken Bow" and they are not completely unjustified. This is supposed to be the premiere armored attack helo on the frontline battlefield forward of our AFVs and infantry. Instead, they need USAF air cover and rarely are far from the troops. When they do go out by themselves they are vunerable to simple AK-47 and RPG fire. Many have been downed and a large amount damaged enough not to be air worthy until after extensive repairs- and this is against untrained mobs with small arms. Imagine fighting the Russians, Chinese, or anyone with equal firepower, missiles, accurate radar, and emerging anti-helo technologies... A guy I know was an Apache pilot with the NC NG. This was in 1990-91 and they were disappointed they weren't deployed to Saudi Arabia. One thing he said stuck with me. It seems the Apaches at his base got broken into a couple of times so they put padlocks on the canopies. He said one guy unlocked it and just laid the lock next to the canopy. He forgot about it and when he took off, the lock flew back, hit something in the tail rotor, and brought the Apache down. I have no idea whether this was true, but he said his squadron was pretty sure the Apaches weren't "small arms proof up to 20mm" as advertised. The only thing "small arms proof up to 20mm" is the cockpit. It's similar in concept to the titanium bathtub found in the A-10. Although there is a lot more plexiglass Was he able to land safely? Quote: The "Patch-Me" helo needs help... Rob- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Back to top Leadfoot Guest Posted: Mon May 21, 2007 6:11 am    Post subject: Re: Nickname for Apache helicopter "Paul J. Adam" <news (AT) jrwlynch (DOT) demon.co.uk> wrote in message news:Xx9$WuAz1BUGFwyz (AT) jrwlynch (DOT) demon.co.uk... Quote: In message <11R3i.392032$6P2.79271 (AT) newsfe16 (DOT) phx>, Leadfoot spammerssusck (AT) nospam (DOT) org> writes What I heard was that they had done everything on paper to navalise the AH-64 and then made an offer to the Marines but that was as far as it went, PAPER. The UK Apaches are getting qualified for maritime ops offf HMS Ocean or the CVSs, but that's not full marinisation: rather, detachment as part of a Tailored Air Group for a specific mission. I broke my knee in 1997 which ended my stint both at Boeing Mesa (I was on a contract, not a direct employee) and my crawling around on aircraft. A small batch of UK Apaches were to be built about 6 months to a year later with the rest of the production being done in England. It's not a hard aircraft to build The AH-64D Longbow starts by taking an A model out of storage,(Cheney mothballed a lot of them after the wall fell) stripping the fuselage to bare metal and storing/refurbing the various components removed. Then the fun part comes with rewiring the the fuselage with brand new wiring along with whatever mods are needed mechanically. DITMCO (continuity check) the wiring and then install the old and new black boxes along with rigging the flight controls. Then off to functional/flight test to wring out the bugs. The oddest thing was that the longbow radar system uses one of the largest black boxes I have ever seen on an aircraft. About the size of a coffin for a 12 year old. Or maybe a large steamer trunk. A two man job to install as it weighs over 100Lbs. Personally I think that was a mistake My information is a bit dated and subject to a tad bit of fog ;-) Quote: My understanding was as far as navalisation goes it was easier to stick with the Cobra and upgrade the weapons and avionics than to make an an Apache that could withstand long periods in a salt water environment. I'm guessing but the blades were probably the biggest hang up. You'd have to mod them to fold and make sure they could handle a salt water environment. I think the Apache's blades fold (for air transport, at least) but as you point out, getting the airframe able to stand up to prolonged exposure to salt spray is a seriously non-trivial issue. Air transport is done via disassembly of the rotor baldes, not folding. It was designed for that. I think the standard was flying combat in 12 hours after an offload. Quote: Again with UK experience, we deploy Joint Force Harrier GR.7s to sea for specific deployments, but for a committed force we wanted the Sea Harrier; which wasn't just a case of putting a radar in the nose, but some surprisingly wide-ranging structural changes such as getting rid of all the magnesium components (while light and stiff, I'm assured it rots very fast in a maritime environment) Exacrly! It's one of those "devil in the details" and I bet even if they had convinced the Marines to buy some once it was deployed something new would crop up. Quote: -- The nation that makes a great distinction between its scholars and its warriors, will have its thinking done by cowards and its fighting done by fools. -Thucydides Paul J. Adam - mainbox{at}jrwlynch[dot]demon(dot)co<dot>uk Back to top Tankfixer Guest Posted: Tue May 22, 2007 6:11 am    Post subject: Re: Nickname for Apache helicopter In article <TLO3i.3718$4Y.2776 (AT) newssvr19 (DOT) news.prodigy.net>, jumblejim (AT) prodigy (DOT) spam mumbled Quote: An online article suggests, without citation or reference, that the U.S. Marine Corps nicknamed its Apache helicopter (through three models) as "The Duke," presumably in honor of actor John Wayne. I am curious why they would do so when they do not operate any.... Quote: I cannot find corroboration for this statement in web searches. Has anyone here with either first-hand or citable evidence to support it ever heard this story? -- Usenetsaurus n. an early pedantic internet mammal, who survived on a diet of static text and cascading "threads." 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