AirTalk.org Aviation discussions newsgroups   Archives   FAQ   Search   Memberlist   Usergroups   Register   Profile   Log in to check your private messages   Log in  Odd missed approach instructions          AirTalk.org Forum Index -> Instrument Flight Rules View previous topic :: View next topic   Author Message Paul Tomblin Guest Posted: Fri May 18, 2007 5:49 pm    Post subject: Odd missed approach instructions The published missed for the RNAV (GPS) RWY 04 at KROC says "Climb to 3000 direct CISON WP and via 098(degree) track to BREIT WP and hold". I'm trying to think why they'd put in that "098 track" thing instead of just saying "direct BRIET WP". The plan view makes it look like after crossing CISON you'd have to fly about 135 degrees to intercept the 098 track somewhere before BRIET. Are they trying to keep you clear of that 1030' obstacle just north west of BREIT? I was reading it as if you had to be at 3000' before you got to CISON, but I suppose you could read it that you're still on your way up to 3000' on the way between CISON and BREIT? -- Paul Tomblin <ptomblin (AT) xcski (DOT) com> http://blog.xcski.com/ "Imagine if every Thursday your shoes exploded if you tied them the usual way. This happens to us all the time with computers, and nobody thinks of complaining." -- Jef Raskin, interviewed in Doctor Dobb's Journal Back to top Paul Tomblin Guest Posted: Fri May 18, 2007 7:43 pm    Post subject: Re: Odd missed approach instructions In a previous article, "Matt Barrow" <mbarrow (AT) performancehomes (DOT) com> said: Quote: "Paul Tomblin" <ptomblin+netnews (AT) xcski (DOT) com> wrote in message news:f2kouc$u94$1 (AT) allhats (DOT) xcski.com... The published missed for the RNAV (GPS) RWY 04 at KROC says "Climb to 3000 direct CISON WP and via 098(degree) track to BREIT WP and hold". I'm trying to think why they'd put in that "098 track" thing instead of just saying "direct BRIET WP". The plan view makes it look like after crossing CISON you'd have to fly about 135 degrees to intercept the 098 track somewhere before BRIET. Are they trying to keep you clear of that 1030' obstacle just north west of BREIT? I was reading it as if you had to be at 3000' before you got to CISON, but I suppose you could read it that you're still on your way up to 3000' on the way between CISON and BREIT? Probably right, but also, the more specific instructions they give, the less you need to calc-on-the-fly during a MA. This is an RNAV (GPS) approach, so direct to the next waypoint is going to involve considerably fewer calculations that trying to intercept a track. Personally, I think whoever wrote that missed approach procedure forgot that BREIT isn't an NDB any more. -- Paul Tomblin <ptomblin (AT) xcski (DOT) com> http://blog.xcski.com/ One item could not be deleted because it was missing. -- Mac System 7.0b1 error message Back to top Matt Barrow Guest Posted: Fri May 18, 2007 10:55 pm    Post subject: Re: Odd missed approach instructions "Paul Tomblin" <ptomblin+netnews (AT) xcski (DOT) com> wrote in message news:f2kouc$u94$1 (AT) allhats (DOT) xcski.com... Quote: The published missed for the RNAV (GPS) RWY 04 at KROC says "Climb to 3000 direct CISON WP and via 098(degree) track to BREIT WP and hold". I'm trying to think why they'd put in that "098 track" thing instead of just saying "direct BRIET WP". The plan view makes it look like after crossing CISON you'd have to fly about 135 degrees to intercept the 098 track somewhere before BRIET. Are they trying to keep you clear of that 1030' obstacle just north west of BREIT? I was reading it as if you had to be at 3000' before you got to CISON, but I suppose you could read it that you're still on your way up to 3000' on the way between CISON and BREIT? Probably right, but also, the more specific instructions they give, the less you need to calc-on-the-fly during a MA. Back to top Ron Rosenfeld Guest Posted: Sat May 19, 2007 6:11 am    Post subject: Re: Odd missed approach instructions On Fri, 18 May 2007 17:49:00 +0000 (UTC), ptomblin+netnews (AT) xcski (DOT) com (Paul Tomblin) wrote: Quote: The published missed for the RNAV (GPS) RWY 04 at KROC says "Climb to 3000 direct CISON WP and via 098(degree) track to BREIT WP and hold". I'm trying to think why they'd put in that "098 track" thing instead of just saying "direct BRIET WP". The plan view makes it look like after crossing CISON you'd have to fly about 135 degrees to intercept the 098 track somewhere before BRIET. Are they trying to keep you clear of that 1030' obstacle just north west of BREIT? I was reading it as if you had to be at 3000' before you got to CISON, but I suppose you could read it that you're still on your way up to 3000' on the way between CISON and BREIT? I agree that it is unusual, and I'm not certain of the appropriate wording in this circumstance. However, the NACO chart calls for flying the 098° track, whereas the JEPP chart call for flying a 118° track! Something is really screwed up here. Also, I believe you have misinterpreted a portion of the missed approach procedure. Probably especially important in view of that tower NW of CISON: You write, "... after crossing CISON ...". But CISON is depicted, on both the Jepp and the NACO charts, as a fly-by WP and not as a fly-over WP. "Fly-by waypoints are used when an aircraft should begin a turn to the next course prior to reaching the waypoint". So you should not be "crossing CISON". Ron (EPM) (N5843Q, Mooney M20E) (CP, ASEL, ASES, IA) Back to top Scott Skylane Guest Posted: Sat May 19, 2007 6:11 am    Post subject: Re: Odd missed approach instructions Ron Rosenfeld wrote: Quote: I agree that it is unusual, and I'm not certain of the appropriate wording in this circumstance. However, the NACO chart calls for flying the 098° track, whereas the JEPP chart call for flying a 118° track! Something is really screwed up here. Also, I believe you have misinterpreted a portion of the missed approach procedure. Probably especially important in view of that tower NW of CISON: You write, "... after crossing CISON ...". But CISON is depicted, on both the Jepp and the NACO charts, as a fly-by WP and not as a fly-over WP. "Fly-by waypoints are used when an aircraft should begin a turn to the next course prior to reaching the waypoint". So you should not be "crossing CISON". Ron (EPM) (N5843Q, Mooney M20E) (CP, ASEL, ASES, IA) Yup! The Jepp database supplied to our Universal FMS's definitely shows a 120 degree track from CISON to BREIT, and that CISON is fly past, so you should begin your turn before the waypoint. NACO obviously goofed on this one. A double-take on the chart should alert you that 098 *cannot* take you from CISON to BREIT, as 098 is the outbound heading of the hold, and is clearly at a different angle than the CISON to BREIT leg. Happy Flying! Scott Skylane Back to top Display posts from previous: All Posts1 Day7 Days2 Weeks1 Month3 Months6 Months1 Year Oldest FirstNewest First         AirTalk.org Forum Index -> Instrument Flight Rules All times are GMT Page 1 of 1   Jump to: Select a forum Aviation----------------alt.aviationAviation safety EnhancementPlanes, gliders and flying in AustraliaAviation et pilotage (Français)rec.aviationAviation (Aerobatics)Hot air, gas balloons and airshipsHang-gliding, paragliding, foot-launched flightAircraft Design & BuildingInstrument Flight RulesAviation (Classifieds)Military AircraftNaval AviationAviation (Miscellaneous Topics)Owning AirplanesAviators (General Discussions)Aviation related productsAircraft RestorationHelicopters and rotary wing aircraftsFlight SimulationSailplanesAviation (Students)Light aircraftFlying related activities in the UK Airports----------------alt.airportsEdinburgh Airport Glasgow Airport Humberside Airport Luton Airport Aberdeen Airport Glasgow Prestwick Airport  You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2006 phpBB Group SEO toolkit © 2004-2006 webmedic.