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Mal
Guest
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 Posted: Mon May 14, 2007 6:10 am Post subject: APEC 2007 |
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APEC 2007 AELW will occur in Sydney during the period 30 August
2007 to 10 September 2007 (Local).
So who will start the class action to recover lost income.
http://www.airservicesaustralia.com.au/publications/current/sup/s7-h23.pdf
1.2 ALL aircraft planning to operate within 45NM of Sydney (Kingsford--
Smith) Airport (KSA) Airport below FL280 during APEC 2007
AELW will be required to obtain approval.
1.3 This major event will increase Australian Defence Force and New
SouthWales Police Air Wing aviation security activities in the Sydney basin
area during the period 30 August 2007 to 10 September 2007.
1.4 This SUP details the airspace management arrangements, including
Temporary Restricted Area, changes to procedures, restrictions and
appropriate
contacts to ensure the safety and security of aircraft operations,
the public and members attending the conference.
1.5 Although security agencies will endeavour to be as permissive to
civilian
flying as the security situation allows, operators should be cognisant of
the increased likelihood that diversions could occur as a consequence of a
contingency response during APEC 2007 AELW. Particular attention
(SUP H23/07) Page 2 of 13
should be paid to the High Density Airspace Control Zone (HIDACZ) described
at paragraph 3.3 and the key event timings described in paragraph
3.4 (and amended by NOTAM). Non--essential flying should plan to avoid
the HIDACZ during APEC 2007 AELW, and may also be denied access to
R902 (Sydney Basin) in entirety during the key event timings. |
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Mil80C
Guest
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| Posted: Mon May 14, 2007 5:43 pm Post subject: Re: APEC 2007 |
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"Mal" <spam (AT) spamcan (DOT) con> wrote in message
news:ygQ1i.37649$M.18480@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
class action to recover lost income would need to show said lost income. A
quick read of the document indicates to me that a little planning and
adherence to the requirements would see most operators get much of what they
want. Those remaining few that do not will be hard pressed to sway a court
to rule against the properly and reasonably enacted legislation and might be
foolish to try and recover small losses at potentially high cost and risk of
failure.
Suggest you re-read the sup and consider the following key terms and the
context that they appear;
key event timings
Non--essential flying
pre--register
other approved operators.
no imposition
whenever practicable. |
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SR20GOER
Guest
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| Posted: Tue May 15, 2007 2:54 am Post subject: Re: APEC 2007 |
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"Mil80C" <deanoNOSPAM4598 (AT) hotmail (DOT) com> wrote in message
news:46485987$1 (AT) dnews (DOT) tpgi.com.au...
| Quote: |
"Mal" <spam (AT) spamcan (DOT) con> wrote in message
news:ygQ1i.37649$M.18480@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
APEC 2007 AELW will occur in Sydney during the period 30 August
2007 to 10 September 2007 (Local).
So who will start the class action to recover lost income.
http://www.airservicesaustralia.com.au/publications/current/sup/s7-h23.pdf
A bit cart-before-the-horseish there Mal, one would have thought that a
class action to recover lost income would need to show said lost income. A
quick read of the document indicates to me that a little planning and
adherence to the requirements would see most operators get much of what
they want. Those remaining few that do not will be hard pressed to sway a
court to rule against the properly and reasonably enacted legislation and
might be foolish to try and recover small losses at potentially high cost
and risk of failure.
Suggest you re-read the sup and consider the following key terms and the
context that they appear;
key event timings
Non--essential flying
pre--register
other approved operators.
no imposition
whenever practicable.
Deano |
Sadly, it's not that simple.
The need to pre-register means anything recreational and even training is a
non-no. If you follow that through, it means lost revenue.
But, let's move to the RPT. Even in brilliant weather, the regionals have
to carry alternate fuel for a major diversion if APEC is activated. Affects
pax/freight haul.
I saw this security scenario in ML with the Commonwealth Games and they were
far less restrictive.
OK, a court of law would be hard put to accept a claim, and national
security predominates anyway.
But, the reality is that it is no good us worrying or debating as the
security for APEC originates above defence and is a consequence of the
Government arrogantly holding APEC - in the wrong location.
There are other locations where an even higher level of security could be
provided - without affecting the average travelling pax, social flyer, or
commercial operator making a living in capital city Sydney airspace.
In case anyone wonders at the size of the circle it's so any 747 shot down
by the RAAF does not drop on suburbia. The original bid for ML and the
Games was 100 Nm!
Still, it must be working - as the Government would say "we have not had a
terrorist attack since we invoked all the draconian measures". But, come to
think of it - we didn't have one beforehand either.
Osama wins - another capital city grinds aviation to low gear for a week.
Only consolation is - it is going to be even worse on the ground for the
motorists etc.
cheers, Brian |
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Brian May
Guest
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| Posted: Wed May 16, 2007 4:59 am Post subject: Re: APEC 2007 |
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| Quote: | "Marty" == Marty <nospam (AT) usenet (DOT) fake> writes:
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Marty> Security agencies always have an issue convincing the
Marty> country that certain measures are necessary because their
Marty> successes are never known – yet their failings make front
Marty> page. If ASI* weren’t as good as they are, and they failed
Marty> to prevent an incident, convincing the country would be a
Marty> whole lot easier. We should just accept their measures and
Marty> go about out ignorant existence. Security agencies wouldn’t
Marty> insist on such measures and infringe on our freedoms as
Marty> planned unless there was a real need to do so.
If only the security measures did anything.
Who says the terrorist attack has to occur in Sydney?
It could just as easily happen in Melbourne, and have just as much
impact as a Sydney based attack, as people world wide start muttering
"Eureka"!
The only solution is to ground all aircraft for the duration of APEC
2007. We better ban all heavy road vehicles too, who knows what damage
you could do with a truck, bus, tram or train. Hmmm. Maybe we should
ban all privately owned cars too, just in case, and then Taxis, and
impose strict speed limits on bikes, wheel chairs, and dogs.
That will make it safe and secure!
--
Brian May <bam (AT) snoopy (DOT) apana.org.au> |
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Craig Welch
Guest
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| Posted: Wed May 16, 2007 6:10 am Post subject: Re: APEC 2007 |
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Marty wrote:
| Quote: | Security agencies always have an issue convincing the country that
certain
measures are necessary because their successes are never known – yet their
failings make front page. If ASI* weren’t as good as they are, and they
failed to prevent an incident, convincing the country would be a whole lot
easier. We should just accept their measures and go about out ignorant
existence. Security agencies wouldn’t insist on such measures and infringe
on our freedoms as planned unless there was a real need to do so.
|
Oops, you almost said ASIO. Don't you have your Echelon super bypass
filter activated?
It's exactly when citizens do just "accept what's best for them" that
democracies die. Look what's happening to the notion of 'free speech' in
this country. Look what's happening to 'due process'. Even in the US,
where Government agents can just cart you off under the pretext of
'security'.
| Quote: | As for aviation activities over the short period of 10 days, the needs of
the many outweigh the needs of the few. Nobody wants the disruption but I
see it as a necessary evil – as much as it disrupts my own working life.
|
Huh? Needs of the many?
Let's be quite clear here. It's the needs of *one*. And he comes from
the US.
Why, exactly, was it necessary to shut down Sydney a short while ago so
that Cheney's over-the-top motorcade could cross the harbour bridge?
Pure farce.
Why was it necessary to shut down Adelaide late 2005 when Rumsfeld came
to town? Even the Lord Mayor and councillors were denied access to their
offices.
Pure farce.
This is political brown-nosing taken to a degree that wouldn't have been
thought possible just a few years ago.
--
Craig |
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John Ewing
Guest
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| Posted: Wed May 16, 2007 5:08 pm Post subject: Re: APEC 2007 |
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"Marty" <nospam (AT) usenet (DOT) fake> wrote in message news:f2ej3a$998$1 (AT) aioe (DOT) org...
| Quote: | "Marty" wrote:
terrorism and it
remains a serious threat,
"Jim" wrote:
Rubbish. This is the crux of the argument. Name one instance of
significant planned or executed terrorism on Australian soil.
And this is precisely MY point as well. We all talk about the fact that we
haven't been subjected to terrorism but very few people have the facts
necessary to make a truly informed appraisal. Since we make our
determinations based on the very selective and censored information made
available to us, how are we supposed to accept any of the Government's
conclusions without knowing the true nature of the argument? Can you tell
me with complete authority that there haven't been planned attacks on
Aussie soil? Since there has not been any incidents, we can only assume
that the spooks are doing their jobs.
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Really? I'd say that is an incredibly naive assumption.
I would say a much more likely scenario is that the terrorists simply
haven't chosen to strike yet.
I think you are giving the "spooks" much more credit than even they would
claim.
Despite all the protestations by Howard and his buddies, our greatest threat
from terrorists is primarily due to our Government's alignment with and
support for US foreign policy.
John |
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John
Guest
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| Posted: Fri May 18, 2007 4:45 am Post subject: Re: APEC 2007 |
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Mal wrote:
| Quote: |
APEC 2007 AELW will occur in Sydney during the period 30 August
2007 to 10 September 2007 (Local).
So who will start the class action to recover lost income.
|
The Federal Government we elected has asked for APEC to be held in Sydney.
The state premier at the time also agreed.
APEC comes with its income in one hand and price in the other.
Basically the government says "Build a bridge... its only 3 days"
Chances of recovering costs.... nil
--
Posted at www.Usenet.com.au |
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Brian May
Guest
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| Posted: Fri May 18, 2007 6:10 am Post subject: Re: APEC 2007 |
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| Quote: | "Marty" == Marty <nospam (AT) usenet (DOT) fake> writes:
Craig Welch wrote:
Oops, you almost said ASIO. Don't you have your Echelon super
bypass filter activated?
|
Marty> Actually I said ASI - Air Speed Indicator  The * was a
Marty> wildcard for the "S" and "O".
Lets see now, you said:
"If ASI* weren't as good as they are, and they failed to prevent an
incident, convincing the country would be a whole lot easier. "
which would become:
"If air speed indicators weren't as good as they are, and they failed
to prevent an incident, convincing the country would be a whole lot
easier. "
These are some fantastic air speed indicators - prevent accidents and
convince entire countries - what sort of aircraft did you fly again ?
 .
(sorry couldn't resist).
--
Brian May <bam (AT) snoopy (DOT) apana.org.au> |
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Sam
Guest
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| Posted: Sat May 19, 2007 4:19 am Post subject: Re: APEC 2007 |
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Coop wrote:
| Quote: | On Wed, 16 May 2007 11:32:27 +0200 (CEST), nospam (AT) usenet (DOT) fake (Marty)
wrote:
The choice of location was poor. Very few in Sydney want it there, and
nobody wants to play host to a monkey.
This is the guts of the issue, IMHO. Canberra is where it should be.
I wonder if it will cost Howard votes...?
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It might
I'm with you on that - for any number of reasons it's the obvious
choice.
--
Sam |
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Paul Blair
Guest
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| Posted: Sat May 19, 2007 4:48 am Post subject: Re: APEC 2007 |
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Sam wrote:
| Quote: | Coop wrote:
On Wed, 16 May 2007 11:32:27 +0200 (CEST), nospam (AT) usenet (DOT) fake (Marty)
wrote:
The choice of location was poor. Very few in Sydney want it there, and
nobody wants to play host to a monkey.
This is the guts of the issue, IMHO. Canberra is where it should be.
I wonder if it will cost Howard votes...?
It might
I'm with you on that - for any number of reasons it's the obvious
choice.
|
Canberra couldn't hope to stage APEC.
There is simply not enough 5-star accommodation to go around. The
airport is (strictly speaking) inadequate for large jets to depart from.
And other resources are simply not adequate...
Sydney is where the PM lives, and he can show off at Kirribilli.
Canberra has only The Lodge (yuk)
Paul |
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Sam
Guest
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| Posted: Sat May 19, 2007 5:51 am Post subject: Re: APEC 2007 |
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Paul Blair wrote:
| Quote: | Sam wrote:
Coop wrote:
On Wed, 16 May 2007 11:32:27 +0200 (CEST), nospam (AT) usenet (DOT) fake (Marty)
wrote:
The choice of location was poor. Very few in Sydney want it there, and
nobody wants to play host to a monkey.
This is the guts of the issue, IMHO. Canberra is where it should be.
I wonder if it will cost Howard votes...?
It might
I'm with you on that - for any number of reasons it's the obvious
choice.
Canberra couldn't hope to stage APEC.
There is simply not enough 5-star accommodation to go around. The
airport is (strictly speaking) inadequate for large jets to depart from.
And other resources are simply not adequate...
Sydney is where the PM lives, and he can show off at Kirribilli.
Canberra has only The Lodge (yuk)
|
Hmm
Well, I guess all of those things combine to rule out another thought
I had...
Birdsville.
--
Sam |
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SR20GOER
Guest
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| Posted: Sat May 19, 2007 6:10 am Post subject: Re: APEC 2007 |
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"Sam" <samiam (AT) hihat (DOT) com> wrote in message
news:cdis43l82u2l37llrfbsadl7452p0gq119 (AT) 4ax (DOT) com...
| Quote: | Paul Blair wrote:
Sam wrote:
Coop wrote:
On Wed, 16 May 2007 11:32:27 +0200 (CEST), nospam (AT) usenet (DOT) fake (Marty)
wrote:
The choice of location was poor. Very few in Sydney want it there, and
nobody wants to play host to a monkey.
This is the guts of the issue, IMHO. Canberra is where it should be.
I wonder if it will cost Howard votes...?
It might
I'm with you on that - for any number of reasons it's the obvious
choice.
Canberra couldn't hope to stage APEC.
There is simply not enough 5-star accommodation to go around. The
airport is (strictly speaking) inadequate for large jets to depart from.
And other resources are simply not adequate...
Sydney is where the PM lives, and he can show off at Kirribilli.
Canberra has only The Lodge (yuk)
Hmm
Well, I guess all of those things combine to rule out another thought
I had...
Birdsville.
--
Sam
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Spot on.
Easy to defend, easy to roll in some ATCO accommodation, every road coming
in (all 3) could be roadblocked but - most importantly - any terrorist would
stand out in the crowd (being a non-drinker) plus the airfield has security
fencing so no terror squad could get there anyway.
Let us all pray to our ASIC cards that the PM sees sense and relocates. Why
else spend all that security money at Birdsville to date? |
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Rob Ford
Guest
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| Posted: Sat May 19, 2007 8:53 am Post subject: Re: APEC 2007 |
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| Quote: | SR20GOER wrote:
Let us all pray to our ASIC cards that the PM sees sense and relocates. Why
else spend all that security money at Birdsville to date?
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I don’t think there’s any chance whatsoever that he’ll consider
relocating. The preparation gone into this thing is HUGE.
The latest inconvenience imposed on Sydneysiders is the ‘APEC Police
Powers Act’ which will give police ‘Stop, Search & Detain’ powers without
any justification whatsoever in certain security designated areas. I think
we’ll see GB’s signature file in action!!
--
Posted at www.Usenet.com.au |
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John
Guest
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| Posted: Sat May 19, 2007 10:15 am Post subject: Re: APEC 2007 |
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Rob Ford wrote:
| Quote: |
SR20GOER wrote:
Let us all pray to our ASIC cards that the PM sees sense and relocates.
Why
else spend all that security money at Birdsville to date?
I don’t think there’s any chance whatsoever that he’ll consider
relocating. The preparation gone into this thing is HUGE.
The latest inconvenience imposed on Sydneysiders is the ‘APEC Police
Powers Act’ which will give police ‘Stop, Search & Detain’ powers without
any justification whatsoever in certain security designated areas. I think
we’ll see GB’s signature file in action!!
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Easy, don't go into the City!
--
Posted at www.Usenet.com.au |
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GB
Guest
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| Posted: Sat May 19, 2007 3:26 pm Post subject: Re: APEC 2007 |
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nospam (AT) usenet (DOT) fake (Rob Ford) wrote in news:f2mdu0$laq$1 (AT) aioe (DOT) org:
| Quote: | I think we'll see GB's signature file in action!!
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:-)
GB
--
"Most police misconduct occurs when citizens challenge an individual
officer's authority" (Reiss, 1971 c.in Jermier & Berkes 1979) |
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