AirTalk.org Aviation discussions newsgroups   Archives   FAQ   Search   Memberlist   Usergroups   Register   Profile   Log in to check your private messages   Log in  GSM - is it time to shut them down ?          AirTalk.org Forum Index -> Edinburgh Airport View previous topic :: View next topic   Author Message Guest Posted: Sat May 12, 2007 2:21 pm    Post subject: GSM - is it time to shut them down ? Pains me to suggest this , but a once fine airline has been ruined by haphazard and reckless expansion - e N America flights are a joke , how long will pax put up with this ? The short haul seem to suffer almost daily tech delays and ridiculously short turnround times . The airline quality forums are embarrasing to read . Time for the CAA to step in ? Back to top John Dundas Guest Posted: Sat May 12, 2007 2:38 pm    Post subject: Re: GSM - is it time to shut them down ? <snowak (AT) scotprint (DOT) co.uk> wrote in message news:1178961705.598635.249730 (AT) u30g2000hsc (DOT) googlegroups.com... Quote: Pains me to suggest this , but a once fine airline has been ruined by haphazard and reckless expansion - e N America flights are a joke , how long will pax put up with this ? The short haul seem to suffer almost daily tech delays and ridiculously short turnround times . The airline quality forums are embarrasing to read . Time for the CAA to step in ? Hi No its not time for the CAA to step in or for the airline to be shutdown, its time that the Management got a rocket up their backside and this can be done in other ways, calling in the CAA is just going to cause them more problems. I think folk should make sure that the airlines knows how much folk are hacked off with them, then again look at FR, a lot of folk are unhappy with them but they are still doing well. They are trying too grow too quickly for some silly reason and now its showing, some folk said this would be the outcome. Back to top Guest Posted: Sat May 12, 2007 2:45 pm    Post subject: Re: GSM - is it time to shut them down ? John Dundas removethisnow wrote: Quote: snowak (AT) scotprint (DOT) co.uk> wrote in message news:1178961705.598635.249730 (AT) u30g2000hsc (DOT) googlegroups.com... Pains me to suggest this , but a once fine airline has been ruined by haphazard and reckless expansion - e N America flights are a joke , how long will pax put up with this ? The short haul seem to suffer almost daily tech delays and ridiculously short turnround times . The airline quality forums are embarrasing to read . Time for the CAA to step in ? Hi No its not time for the CAA to step in or for the airline to be shutdown, its time that the Management got a rocket up their backside and this can be done in other ways, calling in the CAA is just going to cause them more problems. I think folk should make sure that the airlines knows how much folk are hacked off with them, then again look at FR, a lot of folk are unhappy with them but they are still doing well. They are trying too grow too quickly for some silly reason and now its showing, some folk said this would be the outcome. Yes John I was being a bit " tongue in cheek " . For me the tech delays on short haul are the most worrying . What alternatives do you have on their routes - perhaps EZY will come on board more , but for this year - zilch . No one else flies EDI-AGP , they may think they can get away with it . Ladt year the short haul times were far too generous , this year the other way round . They also have a bad reputation for altering schedules at short notice . Back to top Scotsbeef Guest Posted: Sat May 12, 2007 2:50 pm    Post subject: Re: GSM - is it time to shut them down ? On May 12, 10:21 am, sno...@scotprint.co.uk wrote: Quote: Pains me to suggest this , but a once fine airline has been ruined by haphazard and reckless expansion - e N America flights are a joke , how long will pax put up with this ? The short haul seem to suffer almost daily tech delays and ridiculously short turnround times . The airline quality forums are embarrasing to read . Time for the CAA to step in ? Don't know about the CAA shutting them down ( can they do that on non- safety grounds?) but I absolutely agree with what you say about the flight review sites. I flew with them once and it was fine (minor issues with check-in both ends) but reading the reviews would put me off booking with them again. A friend was going to Nice for a conference last week (Thursday 3rd) and when I phoned her she had been waiting over 4 hours. Back to top Callum Johnstone Guest Posted: Sat May 12, 2007 4:33 pm    Post subject: Re: GSM - is it time to shut them down ? <snowak (AT) scotprint (DOT) co.uk> wrote in message news:1178961705.598635.249730 (AT) u30g2000hsc (DOT) googlegroups.com... Quote: Pains me to suggest this , but a once fine airline has been ruined by haphazard and reckless expansion - e N America flights are a joke , how long will pax put up with this ? The short haul seem to suffer almost daily tech delays and ridiculously short turnround times . The airline quality forums are embarrasing to read . Time for the CAA to step in ? I think perhaps they should merge with Jet 2, and perhaps they would achieve greater efficiency together? I honestly think their long haul expansion is moving too quickly, and they should concentrate on what they do best: short haul, leisure flights to European destinations like Palma and Malaga, and they should concentrate firmly on the Scottish market where they are well known - EDI, GLA and ABZ - before trying to spread themselves thinly across the rest of the UK where the competition is much more intense. Hopefully they will take a step back and assess where they're at, and what needs to be done to get back on track. Back to top Clive Braham Guest Posted: Sat May 12, 2007 5:07 pm    Post subject: Re: GSM - is it time to shut them down ? "Callum Johnstone" <callumjohnstone (AT) blueyonder (DOT) co.uk> wrote in message news:2Ch1i.33001$1J.15953 (AT) fe1 (DOT) news.blueyonder.co.uk... Quote: snowak (AT) scotprint (DOT) co.uk> wrote in message news:1178961705.598635.249730 (AT) u30g2000hsc (DOT) googlegroups.com... Pains me to suggest this , but a once fine airline has been ruined by haphazard and reckless expansion - e N America flights are a joke , how long will pax put up with this ? The short haul seem to suffer almost daily tech delays and ridiculously short turnround times . The airline quality forums are embarrasing to read . Time for the CAA to step in ? I think perhaps they should merge with Jet 2, and perhaps they would achieve greater efficiency together? I'd certainly hope they wouldn't even contemplate that. Quote: I honestly think their long haul expansion is moving too quickly, and they should concentrate on what they do best: short haul, leisure flights to European destinations like Palma and Malaga, and they should concentrate firmly on the Scottish market where they are well known - EDI, GLA and ABZ - before trying to spread themselves thinly across the rest of the UK where the competition is much more intense. Hopefully they will take a step back and assess where they're at, and what needs to be done to get back on track. They have 4 more tx capable aircraft arriving within a month. The problem just now is that they don't have enough aircraft to operate the planned schedules but that will be sorted very soon. TD said previously that sourcing the aircraft was a nightmare - he could probably see this fiasco coming when he said that. Up until very recently they had a fantastic time keeping record and a strong financial position. They'll be back on track in June and I doubt the damage done to customer confidence will be insurmountable. I certainly wish them every success. Clive Back to top Callum Johnstone Guest Posted: Sat May 12, 2007 5:21 pm    Post subject: Re: GSM - is it time to shut them down ? "Clive Braham" <clive (AT) braham5 (DOT) freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message news:5alovgF2p3eb3U1 (AT) mid (DOT) individual.net... Quote: "Callum Johnstone" <callumjohnstone (AT) blueyonder (DOT) co.uk> wrote in message news:2Ch1i.33001$1J.15953 (AT) fe1 (DOT) news.blueyonder.co.uk... snowak (AT) scotprint (DOT) co.uk> wrote in message news:1178961705.598635.249730 (AT) u30g2000hsc (DOT) googlegroups.com... Pains me to suggest this , but a once fine airline has been ruined by haphazard and reckless expansion - e N America flights are a joke , how long will pax put up with this ? The short haul seem to suffer almost daily tech delays and ridiculously short turnround times . The airline quality forums are embarrasing to read . Time for the CAA to step in ? I think perhaps they should merge with Jet 2, and perhaps they would achieve greater efficiency together? I'd certainly hope they wouldn't even contemplate that. Thinking it through: They both operate the 737 and 757. They have worked together before through the Channel Express 'link'. There isn't a great deal of route overlap. Jet 2 is an airline whose focus is on northern Britain. I think there might be potential, and it doesn't have to impact negatively on Scotland. You'd have the three Scottish bases (EDI, GLA, ABZ) plus the major Jet 2 ops at Leeds-Bradford, Newcastle, Manchester, Blackpool and Belfast. I think it could work. If it might help to stabilise GSM a bit more then perhaps it's something they should consider? Quote: I honestly think their long haul expansion is moving too quickly, and they should concentrate on what they do best: short haul, leisure flights to European destinations like Palma and Malaga, and they should concentrate firmly on the Scottish market where they are well known - EDI, GLA and ABZ - before trying to spread themselves thinly across the rest of the UK where the competition is much more intense. Hopefully they will take a step back and assess where they're at, and what needs to be done to get back on track. They have 4 more tx capable aircraft arriving within a month. The problem just now is that they don't have enough aircraft to operate the planned schedules but that will be sorted very soon. TD said previously that sourcing the aircraft was a nightmare - he could probably see this fiasco coming when he said that. Up until very recently they had a fantastic time keeping record and a strong financial position. They'll be back on track in June and I doubt the damage done to customer confidence will be insurmountable. I certainly wish them every success. Well, they're not getting fantastic press just now. Let's hope they can indeed turn it around. GSM has been good for Scotland, but let's hope they can continue to grow sustainably rather than impulsively. I wish them all the best too. Back to top Guest Posted: Sat May 12, 2007 7:29 pm    Post subject: Re: GSM - is it time to shut them down ? On May 12, 1:21 pm, "Callum Johnstone" <callumjohnst...@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote: Quote: "Clive Braham" <c...@braham5.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message news:5alovgF2p3eb3U1 (AT) mid (DOT) individual.net... "Callum Johnstone" <callumjohnst...@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote in message news:2Ch1i.33001$1J.15953 (AT) fe1 (DOT) news.blueyonder.co.uk... sno...@scotprint.co.uk> wrote in message news:1178961705.598635.249730 (AT) u30g2000hsc (DOT) googlegroups.com... Pains me to suggest this , but a once fine airline has been ruined by haphazard and reckless expansion - e N America flights are a joke , how long will pax put up with this ? The short haul seem to suffer almost daily tech delays and ridiculously short turnround times . The airline quality forums are embarrasing to read . Time for the CAA to step in ? I think perhaps they should merge with Jet 2, and perhaps they would achieve greater efficiency together? I'd certainly hope they wouldn't even contemplate that. Thinking it through: They both operate the 737 and 757. They have worked together before through the Channel Express 'link'. There isn't a great deal of route overlap. Jet 2 is an airline whose focus is on northern Britain. I think there might be potential, and it doesn't have to impact negatively on Scotland. You'd have the three Scottish bases (EDI, GLA, ABZ) plus the major Jet 2 ops at Leeds-Bradford, Newcastle, Manchester, Blackpool and Belfast. I think it could work. If it might help to stabilise GSM a bit more then perhaps it's something they should consider? I honestly think their long haul expansion is moving too quickly, and they should concentrate on what they do best: short haul, leisure flights to European destinations like Palma and Malaga, and they should concentrate firmly on the Scottish market where they are well known - EDI, GLA and ABZ - before trying to spread themselves thinly across the rest of the UK where the competition is much more intense. Hopefully they will take a step back and assess where they're at, and what needs to be done to get back on track. They have 4 more tx capable aircraft arriving within a month. The problem just now is that they don't have enough aircraft to operate the planned schedules but that will be sorted very soon. TD said previously that sourcing the aircraft was a nightmare - he could probably see this fiasco coming when he said that. Up until very recently they had a fantastic time keeping record and a strong financial position. They'll be back on track in June and I doubt the damage done to customer confidence will be insurmountable. I certainly wish them every success. Well, they're not getting fantastic press just now. Let's hope they can indeed turn it around. GSM has been good for Scotland, but let's hope they can continue to grow sustainably rather than impulsively. I wish them all the best too. I feel sorry for the poor employees who have to come face to face with the quite rightly P***** off passengers.It's the front line troops who have to explain away the problems created by poor decisions made by management. Time for a shake up at the higher level and get some better qualified people in. Crawford Back to top Clive Braham Guest Posted: Sat May 12, 2007 8:40 pm    Post subject: Re: GSM - is it time to shut them down ? <hiddelston (AT) yahoo (DOT) co.uk> wrote in message news:1178980187.624929.234590 (AT) y80g2000hsf (DOT) googlegroups.com... Quote: I feel sorry for the poor employees who have to come face to face with the quite rightly P***** off passengers.It's the front line troops who have to explain away the problems created by poor decisions made by management. Time for a shake up at the higher level and get some better qualified people in. Crawford I'm confident all they need is the aircraft that are joining the fleet very soon. I suppose if mistakes have been made it's the leasing of the 767's to Air India without adequate cover for the start of the summer season. Obviously that's been lucrative for the company but at the cost of all this hassel as it turned out. Clive Back to top Clive Braham Guest Posted: Sat May 12, 2007 9:06 pm    Post subject: Re: GSM - is it time to shut them down ? "Callum Johnstone" <callumjohnstone (AT) blueyonder (DOT) co.uk> wrote in message news:6ji1i.33082$1J.17154 (AT) fe1 (DOT) news.blueyonder.co.uk... Quote: I think perhaps they should merge with Jet 2, and perhaps they would achieve greater efficiency together? I'd certainly hope they wouldn't even contemplate that. Thinking it through: They both operate the 737 and 757. They have worked together before through the Channel Express 'link'. There isn't a great deal of route overlap. Jet 2 is an airline whose focus is on northern Britain. I think there might be potential, and it doesn't have to impact negatively on Scotland. You'd have the three Scottish bases (EDI, GLA, ABZ) plus the major Jet 2 ops at Leeds-Bradford, Newcastle, Manchester, Blackpool and Belfast. I think it could work. If it might help to stabilise GSM a bit more then perhaps it's something they should consider? Mergers are never good news. I take your points but don't see any benefit or need to change for either outfit. I don't know much about Jet2's finances but presumably they do alright and wouldn't want to sell up. The only history the companies have is that GSM leased some aircraft from Jet2's parent company in the early days. GSM have come on in leaps and bounds since then. The main part of Globespan's business is the packages they sell. This sets them apart from most real lo-co airlines and probably provides a far stronger revenue stream than just selling cheap flight seats. The UK-Canadian business is well established and not just a fad and they have expanded that into the USA and South Africa. Their financial position is still strong and they still have ambition, including the 787's on order to open up all sorts of new opportunities, hopefully from Scotland. I'd hate a knee jerk reaction to the present operational difficulties to alter the outlook. I don't think GSM need to change anything other than getting the right number of aircraft in the fleet to fulfill the schedules, which will be accomplished by this time next month. Clive Back to top Guest Posted: Sat May 12, 2007 10:40 pm    Post subject: Re: GSM - is it time to shut them down ? On May 12, 4:40 pm, "Clive Braham" <c...@braham5.freeserve.co.uk> wrote: Quote: hiddels...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message news:1178980187.624929.234590 (AT) y80g2000hsf (DOT) googlegroups.com... I feel sorry for the poor employees who have to come face to face with the quite rightly P***** off passengers.It's the front line troops who have to explain away the problems created by poor decisions made by management. Time for a shake up at the higher level and get some better qualified people in. Crawford I'm confident all they need is the aircraft that are joining the fleet very soon. I suppose if mistakes have been made it's the leasing of the 767's to Air India without adequate cover for the start of the summer season. Obviously that's been lucrative for the company but at the cost of all this hassel as it turned out. Clive Yes I agree once they have the aircraft back in service everything will be okay but it has backfired big time leasing those aircraft to Air India - what were they thinking about? I bet any profit they had made from that deal has quickly been eaten up by these delays. Why have they not leased in a charter to ease the congestion that has built up over the last few days? Crawford Back to top GKirk Guest Posted: Mon May 14, 2007 12:13 pm    Post subject: Re: GSM - is it time to shut them down ? On 12 May, 12:33, "Callum Johnstone" <callumjohnst...@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote: Quote: sno...@scotprint.co.uk> wrote in message news:1178961705.598635.249730 (AT) u30g2000hsc (DOT) googlegroups.com... Pains me to suggest this , but a once fine airline has been ruined by haphazard and reckless expansion - e N America flights are a joke , how long will pax put up with this ? The short haul seem to suffer almost daily tech delays and ridiculously short turnround times . The airline quality forums are embarrasing to read . Time for the CAA to step in ? I think perhaps they should merge with Jet 2, and perhaps they would achieve greater efficiency together? Nooooooooooooooooooooo Jet2 are doing just fine. 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