AirTalk.org Aviation discussions newsgroups   Archives   FAQ   Search   Memberlist   Usergroups   Register   Profile   Log in to check your private messages   Log in  Terminology Ques: 5 mile turn vs. delay vectors          AirTalk.org Forum Index -> Instrument Flight Rules View previous topic :: View next topic   Author Message Gerald S. Guest Posted: Sun May 13, 2007 2:29 am    Post subject: Terminology Ques: 5 mile turn vs. delay vectors The other day I was doing multiple approaches under the hood. I needed an extra minute or two to setup for the next approach and requested a "5 mile turn." From my understanding, this means that while on downwind to not turn me until 5 miles from the FAF. The controller didn't understand. I thought maybe he didn't hear me clearly so I repeated a "requesting a 5 mile turn." He said, "I don't know what that is." I then said, "let me try this, how about delay vectors." That did the trick. I thought a "X mile turn" is standard terminology. Is it not? Gerald Sylvester Back to top Jose Guest Posted: Sun May 13, 2007 2:46 am    Post subject: Re: Terminology Ques: 5 mile turn vs. delay vectors Quote: I thought maybe he didn't hear me clearly so I repeated a "requesting a 5 mile turn." He said, "I don't know what that is." Why not tell him? "Could you vector me to final five miles out?" Jose -- Quantum Mechanics is like this: God =does= play dice with the universe, except there's no God, and there's no dice. And maybe there's no universe. for Email, make the obvious change in the address. Back to top tscottme Guest Posted: Sun May 13, 2007 2:59 am    Post subject: Re: Terminology Ques: 5 mile turn vs. delay vectors I don't fly very often, but I remember "five mile turn" being relevant to holding patterns. Rather than timing the legs of a hold you request the hold legs be distance-based. I've not heard of the term used as you were trying to use it, but that's why I read this NG. -- Scott Back to top Steven P. McNicoll Guest Posted: Sun May 13, 2007 3:05 am    Post subject: Re: Terminology Ques: 5 mile turn vs. delay vectors "Gerald S." <gs1104usenet (AT) sbcglobal (DOT) net> wrote in message news:Fkq1i.2823$zj3.1956 (AT) newssvr23 (DOT) news.prodigy.net... Quote: The other day I was doing multiple approaches under the hood. I needed an extra minute or two to setup for the next approach and requested a "5 mile turn." From my understanding, this means that while on downwind to not turn me until 5 miles from the FAF. The controller didn't understand. I thought maybe he didn't hear me clearly so I repeated a "requesting a 5 mile turn." He said, "I don't know what that is." I then said, "let me try this, how about delay vectors." That did the trick. I thought a "X mile turn" is standard terminology. Is it not? Not. Back to top Steven P. McNicoll Guest Posted: Sun May 13, 2007 3:06 am    Post subject: Re: Terminology Ques: 5 mile turn vs. delay vectors "tscottme" <blahblah (AT) blah (DOT) net> wrote in message news:Rqudnca8Md42pdvbnZ2dnUVZ_gWdnZ2d (AT) comcast (DOT) com... Quote: I don't fly very often, but I remember "five mile turn" being relevant to holding patterns. Rather than timing the legs of a hold you request the hold legs be distance-based. I've not heard of the term used as you were trying to use it, but that's why I read this NG. That would be five mile legs. Back to top Bob Gardner Guest Posted: Sun May 13, 2007 3:38 am    Post subject: Re: Terminology Ques: 5 mile turn vs. delay vectors Can you find it in the Pilot/Controller Glossary? Bob Gardner SAY AGAIN, PLEASE "Gerald S." <gs1104usenet (AT) sbcglobal (DOT) net> wrote in message news:Fkq1i.2823$zj3.1956 (AT) newssvr23 (DOT) news.prodigy.net... Quote: The other day I was doing multiple approaches under the hood. I needed an extra minute or two to setup for the next approach and requested a "5 mile turn." From my understanding, this means that while on downwind to not turn me until 5 miles from the FAF. The controller didn't understand. I thought maybe he didn't hear me clearly so I repeated a "requesting a 5 mile turn." He said, "I don't know what that is." I then said, "let me try this, how about delay vectors." That did the trick. I thought a "X mile turn" is standard terminology. Is it not? Gerald Sylvester Back to top Mark Hansen Guest Posted: Sun May 13, 2007 6:11 am    Post subject: Re: Terminology Ques: 5 mile turn vs. delay vectors On 05/12/07 15:38, Bob Gardner wrote: Quote: Can you find it in the Pilot/Controller Glossary? Can you find Delay Vectors in there? ;-) Quote: Bob Gardner SAY AGAIN, PLEASE -- Mark Hansen, PP-ASEL, Instrument Airplane, USUA Ultralight Pilot Cal Aggie Flying Farmers Sacramento, CA Back to top Bob Gardner Guest Posted: Mon May 14, 2007 1:16 am    Post subject: Re: Terminology Ques: 5 mile turn vs. delay vectors Good point, and I don't have a pat answer. I do know that controllers react appropriately to a request for delay vectors, however. Bob Gardner "Mark Hansen" <meh (AT) NOSPAMwinfirst (DOT) com> wrote in message news:134csmlc6c5tf40 (AT) corp (DOT) supernews.com... Quote: On 05/12/07 15:38, Bob Gardner wrote: Can you find it in the Pilot/Controller Glossary? Can you find Delay Vectors in there? ;-) Bob Gardner SAY AGAIN, PLEASE -- Mark Hansen, PP-ASEL, Instrument Airplane, USUA Ultralight Pilot Cal Aggie Flying Farmers Sacramento, CA Back to top Brad Guest Posted: Tue May 15, 2007 4:55 pm    Post subject: Re: Terminology Ques: 5 mile turn vs. delay vectors On May 13, 4:16 pm, "Bob Gardner" <bob...@comcast.net> wrote: Quote: Good point, and I don't have a pat answer. I do know that controllers react appropriately to a request for delay vectors, however. Bob Gardner "Mark Hansen" <m...@NOSPAMwinfirst.com> wrote in message news:134csmlc6c5tf40 (AT) corp (DOT) supernews.com... On 05/12/07 15:38, Bob Gardner wrote: Can you find it in the Pilot/Controller Glossary? Can you find Delay Vectors in there? ;-) Bob Gardner SAY AGAIN, PLEASE -- Mark Hansen, PP-ASEL, Instrument Airplane, USUA Ultralight Pilot Cal Aggie Flying Farmers Sacramento, CA- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - And occasionally you'll need to speak plain language when standard phraseology doesn't work. "Vector" is standard phraseology, but the words "Request" and "Delay" don't stand on their own in the P/CG. I agree with Jose, just ask him in English what you want. Back to top Brad Guest Posted: Tue May 15, 2007 5:02 pm    Post subject: Re: Terminology Ques: 5 mile turn vs. delay vectors On May 12, 5:29 pm, "Gerald S." <gs1104use...@sbcglobal.net> wrote: Quote: The other day I was doing multiple approaches under the hood. I needed an extra minute or two to setup for the next approach and requested a "5 mile turn." From my understanding, this means that while on downwind to not turn me until 5 miles from the FAF. The controller didn't understand. I thought maybe he didn't hear me clearly so I repeated a "requesting a 5 mile turn." He said, "I don't know what that is." I then said, "let me try this, how about delay vectors." That did the trick. I thought a "X mile turn" is standard terminology. Is it not? Gerald Sylvester I'm a CFII, and I've never heard it phrased that way. Could be a local thing. My request would sound something like: "Blahba Approach, Skyhawk 123YZ requesting ILS 36 approach Hooterville; requesting vectors for a 5 mile intercept prior to FAF (the name of the Final Approach fix)" Back to top Steven P. McNicoll Guest Posted: Tue May 15, 2007 5:12 pm    Post subject: Re: Terminology Ques: 5 mile turn vs. delay vectors "Brad" <bradzeigler (AT) gmail (DOT) com> wrote in message news:1179230528.685785.174770 (AT) h2g2000hsg (DOT) googlegroups.com... Quote: I'm a CFII, and I've never heard it phrased that way. Could be a local thing. My request would sound something like: "Blahba Approach, Skyhawk 123YZ requesting ILS 36 approach Hooterville; requesting vectors for a 5 mile intercept prior to FAF (the name of the Final Approach fix)" Too much talking. I'd drop "prior to FAF (the name of the Final Approach fix)" as the intercept should never be inside the FAF anyway. Back to top KP Guest Posted: Wed May 16, 2007 2:24 am    Post subject: Re: Terminology Ques: 5 mile turn vs. delay vectors "Brad" <bradzeigler (AT) gmail (DOT) com> wrote in message news:1179230528.685785.174770 (AT) h2g2000hsg (DOT) googlegroups.com... Quote: On May 12, 5:29 pm, "Gerald S." <gs1104use...@sbcglobal.net> wrote: The other day I was doing multiple approaches under the hood. I needed an extra minute or two to setup for the next approach and requested a "5 mile turn." From my understanding, this means that while on downwind to not turn me until 5 miles from the FAF. The controller didn't understand. I thought maybe he didn't hear me clearly so I repeated a "requesting a 5 mile turn." He said, "I don't know what that is." I then said, "let me try this, how about delay vectors." That did the trick. I thought a "X mile turn" is standard terminology. Is it not? Gerald Sylvester I'm a CFII, and I've never heard it phrased that way. Could be a local thing. My request would sound something like: "Blahba Approach, Skyhawk 123YZ requesting ILS 36 approach Hooterville; requesting vectors for a 5 mile intercept prior to FAF (the name of the Final Approach fix)" When there's nothing in the Glossary stick actuators should stop trying to sound "kewl" and just say what they want :-/ If you want a 10 mile final ask for a 10 mile final. It might end up being a 15 or 20 mile final due to traffic but that's life. If you want an extended downwind to do set-up ask for an extended downwind to do set-up. You might get a "Let me know when you're ready" instead. If you want an intercept right at the FAF to practice an emergency approach ask for an intercept at the FAF for a practice emergency approach. You'll probably get a "Maintain VFR" but you were going to do that anyway. If you can't articulate what you want in brief standard English you probably shouldn't be flying it in the first place :-/ Back to top Robert M. Gary Guest Posted: Fri May 18, 2007 10:58 pm    Post subject: Re: Terminology Ques: 5 mile turn vs. delay vectors On May 12, 2:29 pm, "Gerald S." <gs1104use...@sbcglobal.net> wrote: Quote: The other day I was doing multiple approaches under the hood. I needed an extra minute or two to setup for the next approach and requested a "5 mile turn." From my understanding, this means that while on downwind to not turn me until 5 miles from the FAF. The controller didn't understand. I thought maybe he didn't hear me clearly so I repeated a "requesting a 5 mile turn." He said, "I don't know what that is." I then said, "let me try this, how about delay vectors." That did the trick. I thought a "X mile turn" is standard terminology. Is it not? Gerald Sylvester I would focus less on trying to figure out the terminology and more on just asking for what you want. Tell him you need a few minutes. -Robert, CFII Back to top Display posts from previous: All Posts1 Day7 Days2 Weeks1 Month3 Months6 Months1 Year Oldest FirstNewest First         AirTalk.org Forum Index -> Instrument Flight Rules All times are GMT Page 1 of 1   Jump to: Select a forum Aviation----------------alt.aviationAviation safety EnhancementPlanes, gliders and flying in AustraliaAviation et pilotage (Français)rec.aviationAviation (Aerobatics)Hot air, gas balloons and airshipsHang-gliding, paragliding, foot-launched flightAircraft Design & BuildingInstrument Flight RulesAviation (Classifieds)Military AircraftNaval AviationAviation (Miscellaneous Topics)Owning AirplanesAviators (General Discussions)Aviation related productsAircraft RestorationHelicopters and rotary wing aircraftsFlight SimulationSailplanesAviation (Students)Light aircraftFlying related activities in the UK Airports----------------alt.airportsEdinburgh Airport Glasgow Airport Humberside Airport Luton Airport Aberdeen Airport Glasgow Prestwick Airport  You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2006 phpBB Group SEO toolkit © 2004-2006 webmedic.