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Kyle Boatright
Guest
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 Posted: Thu May 10, 2007 6:11 am Post subject: Hangar Design |
 |
|
Our EAA chapter is perpetually scheming for ways to acquire a hangar for
member aircraft and for chapter activities. Obviously, any reasonably sized
hangar requires a substantial outlay of funds. The cost issue seems to be
the big hold-up right now.
Anyway, we're looking at a variety of pre-engineered metal building options
for a 50x60 (approx) hangar, but would consider a "homebuilt" alternative if
we could come up with a design that would be functional (it would need to
meet code and have decent aesthetics), more affordable than commercially
purchased alternatives, and that could be built by your typical group of
enthusiasts.
Thoughts? Suggestions?
By the way, the hangar would be at a public airport, and we've been directed
by the airport authority that Quonset hut type shelters or bigger versions
of portable garage type buildings will not get their approval. I suspect
that what they really want us to build is a commercially purchased hangar,
but until they rule out other alternatives, we're gonna pursue all viable
options. |
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Montblack
Guest
|
| Posted: Thu May 10, 2007 6:11 am Post subject: Re: Hangar Design |
|
|
("Morgans" wrote)
| Quote: | Benifits are strong resistance to wind and earthquake, and different
enough that you will generate some community interest.
|
<http://www.domtec.com/process.html>
<http://www.greenhomebuilding.com/manufactured_systems.htm>
<http://www.ysmforbuilding.com/domecrete1.htm>
Well, that's two and a half hours of sleep I won't be getting tonight.
Thanks a lot Jim in NC!!!!
Montblack
Must stop reading....
Must sleep....! |
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Michelle P
Guest
|
| Posted: Thu May 10, 2007 6:11 am Post subject: Re: Hangar Design |
|
|
Kyle Boatright wrote:
| Quote: | Our EAA chapter is perpetually scheming for ways to acquire a hangar for
member aircraft and for chapter activities. Obviously, any reasonably sized
hangar requires a substantial outlay of funds. The cost issue seems to be
the big hold-up right now.
Anyway, we're looking at a variety of pre-engineered metal building options
for a 50x60 (approx) hangar, but would consider a "homebuilt" alternative if
we could come up with a design that would be functional (it would need to
meet code and have decent aesthetics), more affordable than commercially
purchased alternatives, and that could be built by your typical group of
enthusiasts.
Thoughts? Suggestions?
By the way, the hangar would be at a public airport, and we've been directed
by the airport authority that Quonset hut type shelters or bigger versions
of portable garage type buildings will not get their approval. I suspect
that what they really want us to build is a commercially purchased hangar,
but until they rule out other alternatives, we're gonna pursue all viable
options.
Kyle, |
50X60 steel building will cost around $50,000 for the building. Erecting
it would be around $30,000.
check out R&M steel. http://www.rmsteel.com/
We have two of there building and will have a third soon.
Michelle |
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|
|
Kyle Boatright
Guest
|
| Posted: Thu May 10, 2007 6:11 am Post subject: Re: Hangar Design |
|
|
"Lou" <loupark (AT) hotmail (DOT) com> wrote in message
news:1178766264.767392.66180 (AT) o5g2000hsb (DOT) googlegroups.com...
| Quote: | Well, there may be a different way, but I can tell you that as a
carpenter
I estimated building my own hanger instead of ordering one. The cost
difference
was minimal. The part that was a money saver was the hanger door.
Instead
of paying the big money for a folding door, I came up (on paper) with
a panel
system very similiar to the glass doors you see at malls that fold up
into a pocket.
The doors would be made of plywood and each one would have a barrel to
set into
the concrete floor. In other words, you will probebly be better off
with a commercial
building.
Lou
|
I tend to agree - a metal box on a concrete floor is a pretty basic and
inexpensive structure, when you consider that it gives you something that
should be windproof, waterproof, and should hold up well for a long time if
basic maintenance is done. On the other hand, there is always the chance
that someone has figured out a hangar design is labor intensive but not
capital intensive. That might work for us. So I'm compelled to ask.
KB |
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Richard Riley
Guest
|
| Posted: Thu May 10, 2007 6:11 am Post subject: Re: Hangar Design |
|
|
On Wed, 9 May 2007 22:14:01 -0400, "Kyle Boatright"
<kboatright1 (AT) comcast (DOT) net> wrote:
| Quote: |
Our EAA chapter is perpetually scheming for ways to acquire a hangar for
member aircraft and for chapter activities. Obviously, any reasonably sized
hangar requires a substantial outlay of funds. The cost issue seems to be
the big hold-up right now.
Anyway, we're looking at a variety of pre-engineered metal building options
for a 50x60 (approx) hangar, but would consider a "homebuilt" alternative if
we could come up with a design that would be functional (it would need to
meet code and have decent aesthetics), more affordable than commercially
purchased alternatives, and that could be built by your typical group of
enthusiasts.
Thoughts? Suggestions?
By the way, the hangar would be at a public airport, and we've been directed
by the airport authority that Quonset hut type shelters or bigger versions
of portable garage type buildings will not get their approval. I suspect
that what they really want us to build is a commercially purchased hangar,
but until they rule out other alternatives, we're gonna pursue all viable
options.
|
If you're in an area that gets significant winds, you might check out
the story Aviation Consumer did a couple of years ago on which hangars
survived the hurricanes in FL, and which didn't.
The biggest difference was the doors. Bi-fold and overhead did well,
side-sliding did badly. |
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|
|
Morgans
Guest
|
| Posted: Thu May 10, 2007 6:11 am Post subject: Re: Hangar Design |
|
|
"Kyle Boatright"> wrote
| Quote: | On the other hand, there is always the chance that someone has figured out
a hangar design is labor intensive but not capital intensive. That might
work for us. So I'm compelled to ask.
|
Something way different, seen in these links...
Benifits are strong resistance to wind and earthquake, and different enough
that you will generate some community interest.
<http://www.domtec.com/process.html>
<http://www.greenhomebuilding.com/manufactured_systems.htm>
<http://www.ysmforbuilding.com/domecrete1.htm>
--
Jim in NC |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Lou
Guest
|
| Posted: Thu May 10, 2007 6:11 am Post subject: Re: Hangar Design |
|
|
Well, there may be a different way, but I can tell you that as a
carpenter
I estimated building my own hanger instead of ordering one. The cost
difference
was minimal. The part that was a money saver was the hanger door.
Instead
of paying the big money for a folding door, I came up (on paper) with
a panel
system very similiar to the glass doors you see at malls that fold up
into a pocket.
The doors would be made of plywood and each one would have a barrel to
set into
the concrete floor. In other words, you will probebly be better off
with a commercial
building.
Lou |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Guest
|
| Posted: Thu May 10, 2007 12:36 pm Post subject: Re: Hangar Design |
|
|
KyleOn May 9, 7:14�pm, "Kyle Boatright" <kboatrig...@comcast.net>
wrote:
| Quote: | Our EAA chapter is perpetually scheming for ways to acquire a hangar for
member aircraft and for chapter activities. Obviously, any reasonably sized
hangar requires a substantial outlay of funds. The cost issue seems to be
the big hold-up right now.
Anyway, we're looking at a variety of pre-engineered metal building options
for a 50x60 (approx) hangar, but would consider a "homebuilt" alternative if
we could come up with a design that would be functional (it would need to
meet code and have decent aesthetics), more affordable than commercially
purchased alternatives, and that could be built by your typical group of
enthusiasts.
Thoughts? Suggestions?
By the way, the hangar would be at a public airport, and we've been directed
by the airport authority that Quonset hut type shelters or bigger versions
of portable garage type buildings will not get their approval. I suspect
that what they really want us to build is a commercially purchased hangar,
but until they rule out other alternatives, we're gonna pursue all viable
options.
|
Kyle -
Our chapter (www.eaa32.org) went through the same drama several years
ago. While we were debating the budget vs. construction type issue,
one of our members got a lead on an existing 40' X 100' metal building
that was scheduled to be torn down for new highway construction. In
fact, it had been the State DOT's field office for the project, and
was on land owned by a local hotel chain. Being organized as a 501(c)3
not-for-profit corporation that made it possible for them to donate
the building to us and take a tax right off.
When we got the green light from the hotel firm, we put out the call
for all able bodied members to come out to disassemble the building,
and stuff the salvagable material into some rented trailers, and
hauled them up to our county airport location. One member fortunately
had access to a mobil crane which was needed to disassemble the metal
frame and load onto a flatbed. Incredibly, we accomplished all this in
less than three weeks with a bunch of part-timers. At this point
everyone thought we were almost (in our) home. Reality set in when we
discovered that before ground breaking, we had to:
1. Negotiate a favorable long term lease for the land with the county.
2. Hire a professional engineering firm to design a new foundation.
3. Make new plans for the interior.
4. Buy a fold-up door (included engineering modification to building
frame)
5. Get plans approved by eight agencies, including FEMA because it is
located in a flood plain.
Because we decided to rebuild it ourselves, it took about two years to
go through the above, and then about four years of Saturdays to get to
where we could lock the door (like a homebuilt, we can't say it's
really complete, but it's usable). Most of the building process is
documented on our website under "ARC" which officially stands for
Aviation Resource Center, but some wags opine that being in a flood
plain suggests something else. One important caveat as part of the
negotiation with the airport is that the ARC was not to be used of
long term storage of airplanes. This turned out not to be an issue b/c
we basically need all the available space for meetings and short term
aircraft use at critical completion points.
We learned a lot, many of us had to readjust our saturdays after the
construction was complete, and in spite of the occasional ruffled
feather, I would say that most found it an enjoyable experience. And,
after years of yakking about it, we finally have a home.
If any chapter wants to do anything like what I've described here, I
will be glad to pass on our experience in the form of what to do, or
not do, as the case may be based on our experience. BTW, if you can't
find a friendly building donor, there are some buiding component
companies around I can steer you to to get the lowest starting cost if
you want to do it with "sweat equity" like we did. We ended up going
to them for many components because some stuff just wasn't reusable.
Doug Killebrew
Construction Manager, EAA 32, (Ret) |
|
| Back to top |
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Dick
Guest
|
| Posted: Thu May 10, 2007 4:04 pm Post subject: Re: Hangar Design |
|
|
To second item #1 below..
An insufficiently long enough term lease bit our chapter badly at a city
airport. Even though totally financing/constructing our
shop/hanger/building, after 25 years we "lost" it to the city. Our rent went
from $0 to almost $300/ month. Be aware that city airport commissions can
change easily from GA/experimental friendly to not. We lost every
discussion over the last 4 years and now spend most of our time chasing
revenue to cover our expenses....As I understand, the land was leased for 20
years at no rent and our building became theirs afterwards for us to rent
like other hangers on the field. ie: no "break" to EAA chapter.
<DLK6354 (AT) aol (DOT) com> wrote in message
news:1178782589.401742.155760 (AT) h2g2000hsg (DOT) googlegroups.com...
KyleOn May 9, 7:14?pm, "Kyle Boatright" <kboatrig...@comcast.net>
wrote:
| Quote: | Our EAA chapter is perpetually scheming for ways to acquire a hangar for
member aircraft and for chapter activities. Obviously, any reasonably
sized
hangar requires a substantial outlay of funds. The cost issue seems to be
the big hold-up right now.
Anyway, we're looking at a variety of pre-engineered metal building
options
for a 50x60 (approx) hangar, but would consider a "homebuilt" alternative
if
we could come up with a design that would be functional (it would need to
meet code and have decent aesthetics), more affordable than commercially
purchased alternatives, and that could be built by your typical group of
enthusiasts.
Thoughts? Suggestions?
By the way, the hangar would be at a public airport, and we've been
directed
by the airport authority that Quonset hut type shelters or bigger versions
of portable garage type buildings will not get their approval. I suspect
that what they really want us to build is a commercially purchased hangar,
but until they rule out other alternatives, we're gonna pursue all viable
options.
|
Kyle -
Our chapter (www.eaa32.org) went through the same drama several years
ago. While we were debating the budget vs. construction type issue,
one of our members got a lead on an existing 40' X 100' metal building
that was scheduled to be torn down for new highway construction. In
fact, it had been the State DOT's field office for the project, and
was on land owned by a local hotel chain. Being organized as a 501(c)3
not-for-profit corporation that made it possible for them to donate
the building to us and take a tax right off.
When we got the green light from the hotel firm, we put out the call
for all able bodied members to come out to disassemble the building,
and stuff the salvagable material into some rented trailers, and
hauled them up to our county airport location. One member fortunately
had access to a mobil crane which was needed to disassemble the metal
frame and load onto a flatbed. Incredibly, we accomplished all this in
less than three weeks with a bunch of part-timers. At this point
everyone thought we were almost (in our) home. Reality set in when we
discovered that before ground breaking, we had to:
1. Negotiate a favorable long term lease for the land with the county.
2. Hire a professional engineering firm to design a new foundation.
3. Make new plans for the interior.
4. Buy a fold-up door (included engineering modification to building
frame)
5. Get plans approved by eight agencies, including FEMA because it is
located in a flood plain.
Because we decided to rebuild it ourselves, it took about two years to
go through the above, and then about four years of Saturdays to get to
where we could lock the door (like a homebuilt, we can't say it's
really complete, but it's usable). Most of the building process is
documented on our website under "ARC" which officially stands for
Aviation Resource Center, but some wags opine that being in a flood
plain suggests something else. One important caveat as part of the
negotiation with the airport is that the ARC was not to be used of
long term storage of airplanes. This turned out not to be an issue b/c
we basically need all the available space for meetings and short term
aircraft use at critical completion points.
We learned a lot, many of us had to readjust our saturdays after the
construction was complete, and in spite of the occasional ruffled
feather, I would say that most found it an enjoyable experience. And,
after years of yakking about it, we finally have a home.
If any chapter wants to do anything like what I've described here, I
will be glad to pass on our experience in the form of what to do, or
not do, as the case may be based on our experience. BTW, if you can't
find a friendly building donor, there are some buiding component
companies around I can steer you to to get the lowest starting cost if
you want to do it with "sweat equity" like we did. We ended up going
to them for many components because some stuff just wasn't reusable.
Doug Killebrew
Construction Manager, EAA 32, (Ret) |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Denny
Guest
|
| Posted: Thu May 10, 2007 5:20 pm Post subject: Re: Hangar Design |
|
|
The biggest hurdle that do it yourselfers <I have that tendency> will
face is that most airport authorities will insist upon a stamped
engineering report designating snow load, wind rating, earthquake
rating, and fire rating..
That pretty much eliminates any homebuilt wood hangars, etc..
My current business venture requires a clear span 60 x 125 foot
building with 30 X 16 door openings at each end... Burning the
midnight oil heavily and getting multiple quotes on everything from
wood truss <and I even calculated out for a stick building done by
myself with undocumented workers> to slip formed concrete, it came
down to a steel building as the most economical...
denny |
|
| Back to top |
|
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Al G
Guest
|
| Posted: Thu May 10, 2007 9:11 pm Post subject: Re: Hangar Design |
|
|
"Michelle P" <thecatsandiSPAMMEIFYOUDARE (AT) earthlink (DOT) net> wrote in message
news:Wyw0i.8484$Ut6.8445 (AT) newsread1 (DOT) news.pas.earthlink.net...
| Quote: | Kyle Boatright wrote:
Our EAA chapter is perpetually scheming for ways to acquire a hangar for
member aircraft and for chapter activities. Obviously, any reasonably
sized hangar requires a substantial outlay of funds. The cost issue seems
to be the big hold-up right now.
Anyway, we're looking at a variety of pre-engineered metal building
options for a 50x60 (approx) hangar, but would consider a "homebuilt"
alternative if we could come up with a design that would be functional
(it would need to meet code and have decent aesthetics), more affordable
than commercially purchased alternatives, and that could be built by your
typical group of enthusiasts.
Thoughts? Suggestions?
By the way, the hangar would be at a public airport, and we've been
directed by the airport authority that Quonset hut type shelters or
bigger versions of portable garage type buildings will not get their
approval. I suspect that what they really want us to build is a
commercially purchased hangar, but until they rule out other
alternatives, we're gonna pursue all viable options.
Kyle,
50X60 steel building will cost around $50,000 for the building. Erecting
it would be around $30,000.
check out R&M steel. http://www.rmsteel.com/
We have two of there building and will have a third soon.
Michelle
|
I'm helping a local EAA partnership put one of these up in RBG. It is an
80' X 80' and the receipt was for $47,500, delivered(I think we are getting
the door from someone else). It is going together like a big erector set,
and things fit very well. I've built pole barns before, and this is a piece
of cake.
Al G |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Morgans
Guest
|
| Posted: Fri May 11, 2007 1:30 am Post subject: Re: Hangar Design |
|
|
"Montblack" > wrote
| Quote: |
Well, that's two and a half hours of sleep I won't be getting tonight.
Thanks a lot Jim in NC!!!!
|
<chuckle> So glad I could help! <g>
There really is some interesting stuff, in those pages. The real trick is
finding someone in the area that does that kind of construction. If I was
younger, and still in commercial construction, I think I would look into
building these domes.
I was not able to find the exact page that I was looking for. I remember
seeing a hangar that was a concrete dome, and had two doors, that were the
same shape as the dome. They would stay in a down position, but rotate
along the inside wall, thus taking up very little space.
These buildings are the most wind resistant of any building shape ever
tested. They can easily withstand a level 3 hurricane, and possibly more.
--
Jim in NC |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Kyle Boatright
Guest
|
| Posted: Fri May 11, 2007 5:43 am Post subject: Re: Hangar Design |
|
|
Our situation should be a "no lose" arrangement. The airport leases the
land to you for 10 years at a nominal rate. 5 years into the lease, they
can adjust the rate to reflect market changes. After 10 years, the airport
can either buy your hangar at market value or can extend your lease. While
it would be bad to lose a hangar after 10 years, at least we wouldn't walk
away empty handed...
KB
"Dick" <rwripper (AT) verizon (DOT) net> wrote in message
news:7%C0i.5703$wy2.595@trnddc03...
| Quote: | To second item #1 below..
An insufficiently long enough term lease bit our chapter badly at a city
airport. Even though totally financing/constructing our
shop/hanger/building, after 25 years we "lost" it to the city. Our rent
went from $0 to almost $300/ month. Be aware that city airport commissions
can change easily from GA/experimental friendly to not. We lost every
discussion over the last 4 years and now spend most of our time chasing
revenue to cover our expenses....As I understand, the land was leased for
20 years at no rent and our building became theirs afterwards for us to
rent like other hangers on the field. ie: no "break" to EAA chapter.
DLK6354 (AT) aol (DOT) com> wrote in message
news:1178782589.401742.155760 (AT) h2g2000hsg (DOT) googlegroups.com...
KyleOn May 9, 7:14?pm, "Kyle Boatright" <kboatrig...@comcast.net
wrote:
Our EAA chapter is perpetually scheming for ways to acquire a hangar for
member aircraft and for chapter activities. Obviously, any reasonably
sized
hangar requires a substantial outlay of funds. The cost issue seems to be
the big hold-up right now.
Anyway, we're looking at a variety of pre-engineered metal building
options
for a 50x60 (approx) hangar, but would consider a "homebuilt" alternative
if
we could come up with a design that would be functional (it would need to
meet code and have decent aesthetics), more affordable than commercially
purchased alternatives, and that could be built by your typical group of
enthusiasts.
Thoughts? Suggestions?
By the way, the hangar would be at a public airport, and we've been
directed
by the airport authority that Quonset hut type shelters or bigger
versions
of portable garage type buildings will not get their approval. I suspect
that what they really want us to build is a commercially purchased
hangar,
but until they rule out other alternatives, we're gonna pursue all viable
options.
Kyle -
Our chapter (www.eaa32.org) went through the same drama several years
ago. While we were debating the budget vs. construction type issue,
one of our members got a lead on an existing 40' X 100' metal building
that was scheduled to be torn down for new highway construction. In
fact, it had been the State DOT's field office for the project, and
was on land owned by a local hotel chain. Being organized as a 501(c)3
not-for-profit corporation that made it possible for them to donate
the building to us and take a tax right off.
When we got the green light from the hotel firm, we put out the call
for all able bodied members to come out to disassemble the building,
and stuff the salvagable material into some rented trailers, and
hauled them up to our county airport location. One member fortunately
had access to a mobil crane which was needed to disassemble the metal
frame and load onto a flatbed. Incredibly, we accomplished all this in
less than three weeks with a bunch of part-timers. At this point
everyone thought we were almost (in our) home. Reality set in when we
discovered that before ground breaking, we had to:
1. Negotiate a favorable long term lease for the land with the county.
2. Hire a professional engineering firm to design a new foundation.
3. Make new plans for the interior.
4. Buy a fold-up door (included engineering modification to building
frame)
5. Get plans approved by eight agencies, including FEMA because it is
located in a flood plain.
Because we decided to rebuild it ourselves, it took about two years to
go through the above, and then about four years of Saturdays to get to
where we could lock the door (like a homebuilt, we can't say it's
really complete, but it's usable). Most of the building process is
documented on our website under "ARC" which officially stands for
Aviation Resource Center, but some wags opine that being in a flood
plain suggests something else. One important caveat as part of the
negotiation with the airport is that the ARC was not to be used of
long term storage of airplanes. This turned out not to be an issue b/c
we basically need all the available space for meetings and short term
aircraft use at critical completion points.
We learned a lot, many of us had to readjust our saturdays after the
construction was complete, and in spite of the occasional ruffled
feather, I would say that most found it an enjoyable experience. And,
after years of yakking about it, we finally have a home.
If any chapter wants to do anything like what I've described here, I
will be glad to pass on our experience in the form of what to do, or
not do, as the case may be based on our experience. BTW, if you can't
find a friendly building donor, there are some buiding component
companies around I can steer you to to get the lowest starting cost if
you want to do it with "sweat equity" like we did. We ended up going
to them for many components because some stuff just wasn't reusable.
Doug Killebrew
Construction Manager, EAA 32, (Ret)
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Montblack
Guest
|
| Posted: Fri May 11, 2007 6:11 am Post subject: Re: Hangar Design |
|
|
("Morgans" wrote)
| Quote: | I was not able to find the exact page that I was looking for. I remember
seeing a hangar that was a concrete dome, and had two doors, that were the
same shape as the dome. They would stay in a down position, but rotate
along the inside wall, thus taking up very little space.
|
Here you go Jim.
If you're a fast reader ....it shouldn't take you too long. <g>
<http://www.monolithic.com/gallery/commercial/hangar_door/index.html>
<http://www.monolithic.com/gallery/commercial/mclad/index.html>
<http://www.monolithic.com/gallery/commercial/hangars03/index.html>
<http://www.monolithic.com/gallery/commercial/hangars/index.html>
<http://www.monolithic.com/construction/index.html>
Much much much fun info in these links, too.
Montblack |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Peter Dohm
Guest
|
| Posted: Fri May 11, 2007 6:11 am Post subject: Re: Hangar Design |
|
|
"Morgans" <jsmorgan (AT) charterJUNK (DOT) net> wrote in message
news:IEM0i.54$M%1.31 (AT) newsfe12 (DOT) lga...
| Quote: |
"Montblack" > wrote
Well, that's two and a half hours of sleep I won't be getting tonight.
Thanks a lot Jim in NC!!!!
chuckle> So glad I could help! <g
There really is some interesting stuff, in those pages. The real trick is
finding someone in the area that does that kind of construction. If I was
younger, and still in commercial construction, I think I would look into
building these domes.
I was not able to find the exact page that I was looking for. I remember
seeing a hangar that was a concrete dome, and had two doors, that were the
same shape as the dome. They would stay in a down position, but rotate
along the inside wall, thus taking up very little space.
These buildings are the most wind resistant of any building shape ever
tested. They can easily withstand a level 3 hurricane, and possibly more.
--
Jim in NC
I recall it being mentioned a while back. This might be the one: |
http://www.monolithic.com/gallery/commercial/hangar_door/index.html
Peter |
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