AirTalk.org Aviation discussions newsgroups   Archives   FAQ   Search   Memberlist   Usergroups   Register   Profile   Log in to check your private messages   Log in  Skyhawk vs. Mooney Goto page 1, 2, 3  Next          AirTalk.org Forum Index -> Owning Airplanes View previous topic :: View next topic   Author Message Grant Guest Posted: Tue May 08, 2007 10:03 pm    Post subject: Skyhawk vs. Mooney I was simply wondering if someone could break down the cost difference of a 172 and M20. Obviously maintenance on a mooney is going to be a little more and the fuel burn is a gallon or so more, so just some thoughts. Back to top Robert M. Gary Guest Posted: Tue May 08, 2007 10:51 pm    Post subject: Re: Skyhawk vs. Mooney On May 8, 10:03 am, Grant <grant1...@gmail.com> wrote: Quote: I was simply wondering if someone could break down the cost difference of a 172 and M20. Obviously maintenance on a mooney is going to be a little more and the fuel burn is a gallon or so more, so just some thoughts. Depends on the Mooney. The M20C has about the same full burn as the Skyhawk (8 gal/hr) but does 150 knots vs. the 172's 100ish knots on that fuel. The M20C also sells for about the same price as the 172. However, a M20C is more maintenance than a 172 and requires an A&P that has more specialized knowledge (all A&Ps know how to work on 172s). Also, insurance could be a big difference. The retractable gear will cost you somewhere between $500 to $2000 per year additional depending on the amount of retract time you have. A couple things to check for in a Mooney... 1) Fuel leaks. Mooneys have no fuel tanks, just sealant on the skin to hold fuel in. Every so many years an owner is well advised to go into the tanks and freshen up the sealent. If you are very rich you may pay someone to totally replace the sealant but that is rarely required. 2) Gear actuator. If the Mooney you are looking at has electric gear make sure the AD has been complied with the check the actuator gear. Technically this is a recurrent AD but if the gears aren't chewed up the first time you look, chances are you didn't get the bad lot and will be good forever. 3) Also, if you fly more than 100 hours a year, you will end up having to do an annual every 100 hours. There is an AD that requires all flight control connections and gear sections to be lubed every 100 hours. There is really no way to do this without totally taking the plane apart (figure 10 hours of your time to remove all the panels unless you have a one-piece belly). By the time you pull all the panels off to lube you've basically set up for an annual anyway. Some A&Ps consider this unnecessary and will sign off the 100hr ADs for 3 hours of labor, but there is no way they are actually meeting the strict requirements of the AD in that time. However, know that there are many Mooney owners out there that haven't properly lubed their plane in 10 years and are flying all the time so you aren't going to fall from the sky. -Robert, CFII (and Mooney instructor) Back to top Al G Guest Posted: Tue May 08, 2007 11:41 pm    Post subject: Re: Skyhawk vs. Mooney "Robert M. Gary" <N7093v (AT) gmail (DOT) com> wrote in message news:1178646697.853057.13580 (AT) q75g2000hsh (DOT) googlegroups.com... Quote: On May 8, 10:03 am, Grant <grant1...@gmail.com> wrote: I was simply wondering if someone could break down the cost difference of a 172 and M20. Obviously maintenance on a mooney is going to be a little more and the fuel burn is a gallon or so more, so just some thoughts. Depends on the Mooney. The M20C has about the same full burn as the Skyhawk (8 gal/hr) but does 150 knots vs. the 172's 100ish knots on that fuel. The M20C also sells for about the same price as the 172. However, a M20C is more maintenance than a 172 and requires an A&P that has more specialized knowledge (all A&Ps know how to work on 172s). Also, insurance could be a big difference. The retractable gear will cost you somewhere between $500 to $2000 per year additional depending on the amount of retract time you have. A couple things to check for in a Mooney... 1) Fuel leaks. Mooneys have no fuel tanks, just sealant on the skin to hold fuel in. Every so many years an owner is well advised to go into the tanks and freshen up the sealent. If you are very rich you may pay someone to totally replace the sealant but that is rarely required. 2) Gear actuator. If the Mooney you are looking at has electric gear make sure the AD has been complied with the check the actuator gear. Technically this is a recurrent AD but if the gears aren't chewed up the first time you look, chances are you didn't get the bad lot and will be good forever. 3) Also, if you fly more than 100 hours a year, you will end up having to do an annual every 100 hours. There is an AD that requires all flight control connections and gear sections to be lubed every 100 hours. There is really no way to do this without totally taking the plane apart (figure 10 hours of your time to remove all the panels unless you have a one-piece belly). By the time you pull all the panels off to lube you've basically set up for an annual anyway. Some A&Ps consider this unnecessary and will sign off the 100hr ADs for 3 hours of labor, but there is no way they are actually meeting the strict requirements of the AD in that time. However, know that there are many Mooney owners out there that haven't properly lubed their plane in 10 years and are flying all the time so you aren't going to fall from the sky. -Robert, CFII (and Mooney instructor) The M20C also has a wooden wing doesn't it? Al G, Mooney record holder Back to top Dave Butler Guest Posted: Wed May 09, 2007 12:00 am    Post subject: Re: Skyhawk vs. Mooney Robert M. Gary wrote: Quote: 3) Also, if you fly more than 100 hours a year, you will end up having to do an annual every 100 hours. There is an AD that requires all flight control connections and gear sections to be lubed every 100 hours. What AD is that? I'm not aware of that. Is it model-specific? The only ones on my list are: inspection of fuel injector fuel lines required by AD 2002-26-01 inspection of Bendix magneto ignition switch required by AD 76-07-12 inspection of Bendix magneto impulse coupling required by AD 96-12-07 Dave Back to top flynrider via AviationKB. Guest Posted: Wed May 09, 2007 12:05 am    Post subject: Re: Skyhawk vs. Mooney Al G wrote: Quote: The M20C also has a wooden wing doesn't it? Nope. The M20Cs are all metal. I think the last wood-winged version was the M20A in 1960. John Galban=====>N4BQ (PA28-180) -- Message posted via AviationKB.com http://www.aviationkb.com/Uwe/Forums.aspx/aviation/200705/1 Back to top Tri-Pacer Guest Posted: Wed May 09, 2007 12:48 am    Post subject: Re: fuel burn was Skyhawk vs. Mooney "> Depends on the Mooney. The M20C has about the same full burn as the Quote: Skyhawk (8 gal/hr) but does How many of you guys really see 8 GPH with your O-320s. I'd like to know your secrets. Cheers: Paul N1431A. Back to top Ken Reed Guest Posted: Wed May 09, 2007 2:57 am    Post subject: Re: fuel burn was Skyhawk vs. Mooney Quote: The M20C has about the same full burn as the Skyhawk (8 gal/hr). How many of you guys really see 8 GPH with your O-320s. The Mooney M20C has an O-360 and I saw 8.5 GPH at 147 KTAS regularly with the one I owned. -- Ken Reed M20M, N9124X Back to top Ken Reed Guest Posted: Wed May 09, 2007 2:58 am    Post subject: Re: fuel burn was Skyhawk vs. Mooney Quote: The M20C has about the same full burn as the Skyhawk (8 gal/hr). How many of you guys really see 8 GPH with your O-320s. The Mooney M20C has an O-360 and I saw 8.5 GPH at 147 KTAS regularly with the one I owned. -- Ken Reed M20M, N9124X Back to top Steven Barnes Guest Posted: Wed May 09, 2007 6:12 am    Post subject: Re: fuel burn was Skyhawk vs. Mooney The little red knob... "Tri-Pacer" <Tripacer (AT) hotmail (DOT) com> wrote in message news:ZZidnXacWdWwSd3bnZ2dnUVZ_tijnZ2d (AT) comcast (DOT) com... Quote: "> Depends on the Mooney. The M20C has about the same full burn as the Skyhawk (8 gal/hr) but does How many of you guys really see 8 GPH with your O-320s. I'd like to know your secrets. Cheers: Paul N1431A. Back to top Jay Somerset Guest Posted: Wed May 09, 2007 6:12 am    Post subject: Re: fuel burn was Skyhawk vs. Mooney On Tue, 8 May 2007 12:48:48 -0700, "Tri-Pacer" <Tripacer (AT) hotmail (DOT) com> wrote: Quote: "> Depends on the Mooney. The M20C has about the same full burn as the Skyhawk (8 gal/hr) but does How many of you guys really see 8 GPH with your O-320s. I'd like to know your secrets. Cheers: Paul N1431A. Easy -- I learned how and when to lean the mixture, and on cross-countries, to fly at higher altitudes. C172P (1981 w/ O-320). -- Jay. (remove dashes for legal email address) Back to top kontiki Guest Posted: Wed May 09, 2007 8:21 pm    Post subject: Re: Skyhawk vs. Mooney Grant wrote: Quote: I was simply wondering if someone could break down the cost difference of a 172 and M20. Obviously maintenance on a mooney is going to be a little more and the fuel burn is a gallon or so more, so just some thoughts. Fuel burn is actually less for the total trip since it flys a lot faster than a 172. Back to top Grant Guest Posted: Wed May 09, 2007 9:27 pm    Post subject: Re: Skyhawk vs. Mooney Ok, ok, all sounds good, now I'm wondering how a Cardinal sizes up to all of this. I kinda like what they have to offer. But maybe I'm naive, good chance. Back to top Newps Guest Posted: Wed May 09, 2007 9:59 pm    Post subject: Re: Skyhawk vs. Mooney Dave Butler wrote: Quote: Robert M. Gary wrote: 3) Also, if you fly more than 100 hours a year, you will end up having to do an annual every 100 hours. There is an AD that requires all flight control connections and gear sections to be lubed every 100 hours. What AD is that? I'm not aware of that. Is it model-specific? If that's true that is a deal breaker. Take the plane apart every 100 hours for a lube job? Pathetic. Back to top Newps Guest Posted: Wed May 09, 2007 10:00 pm    Post subject: Re: fuel burn was Skyhawk vs. Mooney Tri-Pacer wrote: Quote: "> Depends on the Mooney. The M20C has about the same full burn as the Skyhawk (8 gal/hr) but does How many of you guys really see 8 GPH with your O-320s. I'd like to know your secrets. I see 8 gph with my 520. Great for fartin' around the local area at 150 MPH indicated. Back to top Guest Posted: Wed May 09, 2007 10:18 pm    Post subject: Re: Skyhawk vs. Mooney Robert M. Gary <N7093v (AT) gmail (DOT) com> wrote: Quote: [Mooneys] There is an AD that requires all flight control connections and gear sections to be lubed every 100 hours. There is really no way to do this without totally taking the plane apart (figure 10 hours of your time to remove all the panels unless you have a one-piece belly). I've worked with (stationary) machines that had several places that needed lubrication. Many of them had a couple of panels with several grease fittings on them, and metal tubing to connect the fittings to the bearings. That way you didn't have to crawl all over the machine to lube it - you just worked your way down the fittings, giving N squirts per fitting. Would it even be possible to install something like that on a plane? Or are the places that need lubrication such that it would be difficult to connect the lines to them? For instance, most bushings and bearings would be fairly easy to connect a line to. But it would be pretty hard to connect a line to something like a clevis on the end of a cable. Even if you couldn't connect to everything, connecting to enough stuff that you wouldn't have to remove as many panels might be a win. 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