AirTalk.org Aviation discussions newsgroups   Archives   FAQ   Search   Memberlist   Usergroups   Register   Profile   Log in to check your private messages   Log in  Suggestions for somewhere to do residential 4 week NPPL for Goto page 1, 2  Next          AirTalk.org Forum Index -> Flying related activities in the UK View previous topic :: View next topic   Author Message Guest Posted: Thu May 03, 2007 9:30 pm    Post subject: Suggestions for somewhere to do residential 4 week NPPL for I've been looking at doing an intensive (N) PPL in the summer. I reckon I can borrow £5k to do it. I don't really fancy going abroad for it. I've been talking to a school north of the border about it and it looks almost viable there, anyone suggest anywhere else? Not too fussed where in the UK mainland, as long I could do it for £5k all in. Or am I living in cloud-cuckoo land? Cheers, Chris. Back to top NoSpam Guest Posted: Thu May 03, 2007 10:25 pm    Post subject: Re: Suggestions for somewhere to do residential 4 week NPPL ongar_route (AT) hotmail (DOT) com wrote: Quote: I've been looking at doing an intensive (N) PPL in the summer. I reckon I can borrow £5k to do it. I don't really fancy going abroad for it. I've been talking to a school north of the border about it and it looks almost viable there, anyone suggest anywhere else? Not too fussed where in the UK mainland, as long I could do it for £5k all in. Or am I living in cloud-cuckoo land? Cheers, Chris. Speak to Old Sarum (nr Salisbury) 01722-322525 Dave Back to top Guest Posted: Thu May 03, 2007 11:24 pm    Post subject: Re: Suggestions for somewhere to do residential 4 week NPPL On 3 May, 18:25, NoSpam <nom...@hursley.ibm.com> wrote: Quote: ongar_ro...@hotmail.com wrote: I've been looking at doing an intensive (N) PPL in the summer. I reckon I can borrow £5k to do it. I don't really fancy going abroad for it. I've been talking to a school north of the border about it and it looks almost viable there, anyone suggest anywhere else? Not too fussed where in the UK mainland, as long I could do it for £5k all in. Or am I living in cloud-cuckoo land? Cheers, Chris. Speak to Old Sarum (nr Salisbury) 01722-322525 Dave Thanks for the suggestion, but blows the budget unfortunately. NPPL quoted at around £4,800 plus a few extras which would tip over the £5k without covering accommodation. For Light Plane that is - don't want microlight Back to top NoSpam Guest Posted: Fri May 04, 2007 2:36 am    Post subject: Re: Suggestions for somewhere to do residential 4 week NPPL ongar_route (AT) hotmail (DOT) com wrote: Quote: On 3 May, 18:25, NoSpam <nom...@hursley.ibm.com> wrote: ongar_ro...@hotmail.com wrote: I've been looking at doing an intensive (N) PPL in the summer. I reckon I can borrow £5k to do it. I don't really fancy going abroad for it. I've been talking to a school north of the border about it and it looks almost viable there, anyone suggest anywhere else? Not too fussed where in the UK mainland, as long I could do it for £5k all in. Or am I living in cloud-cuckoo land? Cheers, Chris. Speak to Old Sarum (nr Salisbury) 01722-322525 Dave Thanks for the suggestion, but blows the budget unfortunately. NPPL quoted at around £4,800 plus a few extras which would tip over the £5k without covering accommodation. For Light Plane that is - don't want microlight I've been instructing for a long time ... it's extremely rare for someone to reach the required standard in the minimum hours (maybe I'm just a crap instructor ) so wherever you go (and whatever course you do) you need to budget for more than the minimum. The actual time taken depends on so many things including your age (sorry), your ability to learn new tasks and to pass exams, how you "bond" with your FI, weather, continuity ... and probably the phase of the moon! I'm not trying to put you off, just to be realistic. Also, don't forget that modern microlights can be very like conventional light aircraft and there are routes to move from one to t'other. Have a look at the C42. A final thought - some US schools used to guarantee a "pass" for a fixed fee (and may still do so) but just ask yourself how that can be possible and whether they're likely to use an independent examiner in that situation. I've seen the end result of the "guaranteed pass" schools - people frequently need more training (when they get home) before they're at a safe standard. Beware. HTH Dave Back to top Alt Beer Guest Posted: Fri May 04, 2007 2:47 am    Post subject: Re: Suggestions for somewhere to do residential 4 week NPPL The May 2007 edition of Pilot magazine has a 60 page supplement "Where to fly guide". In it is a listing "Your complete guide to UK and overseas flying clubs and schools" broken down into counties. For example Clacton Aero Club NPPL courses from £3,452 there are others around the country. Look in W H Smiths or Pilot mag for a copy. <ongar_route (AT) hotmail (DOT) com> wrote in message news:1178209848.013826.292180 (AT) y5g2000hsa (DOT) googlegroups.com... I've been looking at doing an intensive (N) PPL in the summer. I reckon I can borrow £5k to do it. I don't really fancy going abroad for it. I've been talking to a school north of the border about it and it looks almost viable there, anyone suggest anywhere else? Not too fussed where in the UK mainland, as long I could do it for £5k all in. Or am I living in cloud-cuckoo land? Cheers, Chris. Back to top Andy McKenzie Guest Posted: Fri May 04, 2007 1:45 pm    Post subject: Re: Suggestions for somewhere to do residential 4 week NPPL "NoSpam" <nomail (AT) hursley (DOT) ibm.com> wrote in message news:59v2rjF2m32riU1 (AT) mid (DOT) individual.net... Quote: ongar_route (AT) hotmail (DOT) com wrote: On 3 May, 18:25, NoSpam <nom...@hursley.ibm.com> wrote: ongar_ro...@hotmail.com wrote: I've been looking at doing an intensive (N) PPL in the summer. I reckon I can borrow £5k to do it. I don't really fancy going abroad for it. I've been talking to a school north of the border about it and it looks almost viable there, anyone suggest anywhere else? Not too fussed where in the UK mainland, as long I could do it for £5k all in. Or am I living in cloud-cuckoo land? Cheers, Chris. Speak to Old Sarum (nr Salisbury) 01722-322525 Dave Thanks for the suggestion, but blows the budget unfortunately. NPPL quoted at around £4,800 plus a few extras which would tip over the £5k without covering accommodation. For Light Plane that is - don't want microlight I've been instructing for a long time ... it's extremely rare for someone to reach the required standard in the minimum hours (maybe I'm just a crap instructor ) so wherever you go (and whatever course you do) you need to budget for more than the minimum. The actual time taken depends on so many things including your age (sorry), your ability to learn new tasks and to pass exams, how you "bond" with your FI, weather, continuity ... and probably the phase of the moon! I'm not trying to put you off, just to be realistic. Also, don't forget that modern microlights can be very like conventional light aircraft and there are routes to move from one to t'other. Have a look at the C42. A final thought - some US schools used to guarantee a "pass" for a fixed fee (and may still do so) but just ask yourself how that can be possible and whether they're likely to use an independent examiner in that situation. I've seen the end result of the "guaranteed pass" schools - people frequently need more training (when they get home) before they're at a safe standard. Beware. Dave A serious question - why do most people take longer than the minimum hours to learn? I learnt to fly nearly 30 years ago, and not in the UK, (but to a CAA syllabus) but back then I would have said things were the other way round. Most of my flying club colleagues got their licence in the stated hours. Indeed it was not unknown to do your GFT and still have a few hours flying to do to get the minimum hours. So what's changed? Is it just airspace complexity? It can't be the aircraft complexity because in my experience the only difference between a club trainer in 1980 and 2007 is how faded the upholstery is! I have a nagging suspicion that it is down to a concern in our litigious culture that the instructor has to be 120% sure at each and every stage - not that I am blaming instructors here -its society. [and wow - becoming a grumpy old fart sneaks up on one!] Andy Back to top D Guest Posted: Fri May 04, 2007 2:18 pm    Post subject: Re: Suggestions for somewhere to do residential 4 week NPPL Quote: A serious question - why do most people take longer than the minimum hours to learn? Interesting question. I dont think instructors live in fear of litigation (I instruct with Dave up at old sarum), well I dont anyway. I just do the best I can. But for decades the average student has taken 55 hours to qualify - average mind, some do it in minimum and others take hundreds of hours (I kid ye not). I knw pilots of yore would solo in five hours and then fly Spifires with about 15 hours, but what kind of pilots were they? Mostly young of course, which helps, but were they any good? I mean, ask yourself this question: how good would YOU be, soloing in a Tiger Moth (or C152, or Pa 2 with 5 hours ( and mankind has not evolved that much in sixty years!!) ? Would you be barely able to survive and flounder around the (effectivlely) open FIR or would you be safe to be carrying my family?? I think these people were able to take off and land then go and learn! they had no radio to contend with, no detailed meteorology to collect, little air law to understand. Just get in, giddy up and stay alive till tomorrow. I also think there's a different attitude to death these days, and a serious risk-averse attitude. imagine being sent solo at five hours - you'd crap yourself. I mean, what if you got hurt!! But forty years ago being hurt was par for the course of life, the type of people who could afford to fly would probably have been falling off horses since birth. I also have a sneaking suspicion that many people today are less mechanically minded and less air minded. The best students are farmers - as discovered in WW2 and still true today - because they are mechanically minded, they understand things like "attitude" and "push this and that happens" in a way pen pushers and computer jockies largey do not. Finally, I think there is a stonger attitude of "professionalism" in the air world now. When I send my (for example) tail wheel students off, I am simply not satisfied if they can "arrive". I want smooth landings, nice approaches, I want them to have been in, with me, cross winds onto tarmac not just headwinds on grass. I want them to be good at three pointers and to have practiced wheelers (and understand why the former is better). I am not afraid of litigation, I simply don't want one of my students to end up in GASIL or the ground for want of an hours instruction. So, ever since the PPL was invented humans have taken, on avaerage, longer to do it that our Tiger flying, Hun popping forebears imaginged when they created the PPL syllabus( and extended it over the years). To the OP though, Old Sarum will do you well, but not quite for the five grand I should think. Have you considered buying a plane and then renting an instructor? So long as you wholly own the plane you can do this and it might save you a packet in the long run. A two seater might cost you 10 to 18 grand, but then your instructor will cost you very little on top. I'd do it for £20 an hour, times 40 hours. You do the maths. After training you'll be renting for over a hundred an hour - but on your own PFA plane you'll be running at around £40 an hour. Dave costs £21 an hour, so use me, use me.!! Phew, david Back to top Andy McKenzie Guest Posted: Fri May 04, 2007 3:30 pm    Post subject: Re: Suggestions for somewhere to do residential 4 week NPPL "D" <David_perry (AT) btconnect (DOT) com> wrote in message news:bvCdnRpGDYr7Z6fbRVnysAA (AT) bt (DOT) com... Quote: A serious question - why do most people take longer than the minimum hours to learn? Interesting question. I dont think instructors live in fear of litigation (I instruct with Dave up at old sarum), well I dont anyway. I just do the best I can. But for decades the average student has taken 55 hours to qualify - average mind, some do it in minimum and others take hundreds of hours (I kid ye not). I knw pilots of yore would solo in five hours and then fly Spifires with about 15 hours, but what kind of pilots were they? Mostly young of course, which helps, but were they any good? I mean, ask yourself this question: how good would YOU be, soloing in a Tiger Moth (or C152, or Pa 2 with 5 hours ( and mankind has not evolved that much in sixty years!!) ? Would you be barely able to survive and flounder around the (effectivlely) open FIR or would you be safe to be carrying my family?? I think these people were able to take off and land then go and learn! they had no radio to contend with, no detailed meteorology to collect, little air law to understand. Just get in, giddy up and stay alive till tomorrow. I also think there's a different attitude to death these days, and a serious risk-averse attitude. imagine being sent solo at five hours - you'd crap yourself. I mean, what if you got hurt!! But forty years ago being hurt was par for the course of life, the type of people who could afford to fly would probably have been falling off horses since birth. I also have a sneaking suspicion that many people today are less mechanically minded and less air minded. The best students are farmers - as discovered in WW2 and still true today - because they are mechanically minded, they understand things like "attitude" and "push this and that happens" in a way pen pushers and computer jockies largey do not. Finally, I think there is a stonger attitude of "professionalism" in the air world now. When I send my (for example) tail wheel students off, I am simply not satisfied if they can "arrive". I want smooth landings, nice approaches, I want them to have been in, with me, cross winds onto tarmac not just headwinds on grass. I want them to be good at three pointers and to have practiced wheelers (and understand why the former is better). I am not afraid of litigation, I simply don't want one of my students to end up in GASIL or the ground for want of an hours instruction. So, ever since the PPL was invented humans have taken, on avaerage, longer to do it that our Tiger flying, Hun popping forebears imaginged when they created the PPL syllabus( and extended it over the years). To the OP though, Old Sarum will do you well, but not quite for the five grand I should think. Have you considered buying a plane and then renting an instructor? So long as you wholly own the plane you can do this and it might save you a packet in the long run. A two seater might cost you 10 to 18 grand, but then your instructor will cost you very little on top. I'd do it for £20 an hour, times 40 hours. You do the maths. After training you'll be renting for over a hundred an hour - but on your own PFA plane you'll be running at around £40 an hour. Dave costs £21 an hour, so use me, use me.!! Phew, david David, Thanks for that considered reply. I understand what you mean about not wanting to feature in GASIL, although to an extent that's because if not worried about personal litigation I guess we are all, and should be, worried about 'another accident - those little planes should be banned'. The air cadets used to solo glider students in Sedbergs or Tutors'. after two or three days of intensive instruction, with a total flight time measured in minutes rather than hours. We were only capable of handling a winch launch, close circuit and a landing, but we were capable, and I don't remember anyone killing themselves - we were of course rather young! I'm sure you are right that for decades it has taken 55 hours or so to learn (although I'd love to see hard stats on this). I will take issue with your comment re some of the ground school skills. I imagine that the average 5 hour Tiger Moth pilot knew more about meteorology, airframes and engines than the average multiple choice answering modern pilot can shake a stick at! Andy (older and grumpier by the hour) Back to top D Guest Posted: Fri May 04, 2007 7:26 pm    Post subject: Re: Suggestions for somewhere to do residential 4 week NPPL I imagine that the average 5 Quote: hour Tiger Moth pilot knew more about meteorology, airframes and engines than the average multiple choice answering modern pilot can shake a stick at! Andy (older and grumpier by the hour) Well, he might have done, I'm not sure. But I guess when you have to mend father's car every day and hand crank it every time one's driver takes one out, one learns a thing or two about engines! I was pondering other stuff too, during the day, and of course the whole essence of navigation has changed: "see that town in the distance? Well that's Croydon old bean" And there's nothing but fields in between. And if you get lost, well, turn south till you hit the sea, turn left and fly till you find the drome. Better yet, land anywhere, ask the farmer, who will of course be DELIGHTED to welcome you because just everyone is airminded, and he'll tell you where you are! Easy. No airspace worries, no jets, no noise, no Rule 5, just no hassle. It really must have taken so much stress out of it. I don't suppose many of the early pilots learnt at the rate of an hour a fortnight either! I recently had an intensive student at old sarum and the progress he made in a week (he only managed 8 hours due weather) startled him to say the least! Without a doubt had I had a few more hours with him he would have solo'd. But would I send him up in a Spit..? ;o) david Back to top Guest Posted: Fri May 04, 2007 8:17 pm    Post subject: Re: Suggestions for somewhere to do residential 4 week NPPL On 4 May, 10:18, "D" <David_pe...@btconnect.com> wrote: Quote: To the OP though, Old Sarum will do you well, but not quite for the five grand I should think. Have you considered buying a plane and then renting an instructor? So long as you wholly own the plane you can do this and it might save you a packet in the long run. A two seater might cost you 10 to 18 grand, but then your instructor will cost you very little on top. I'd do it for £20 an hour, times 40 hours. You do the maths. After training you'll be renting for over a hundred an hour - but on your own PFA plane you'll be running at around £40 an hour. Dave costs £21 an hour, so use me, use me.!! Phew, david I love the idea, but no way on earth could I raise the £10-18k unfortunately! I'll agree, it's a very cost effective way of training, if only I could find a free plane! Cheers Back to top Andy McKenzie Guest Posted: Fri May 04, 2007 8:45 pm    Post subject: Re: Suggestions for somewhere to do residential 4 week NPPL "D" <David_perry (AT) btconnect (DOT) com> wrote in message news:tcmdnYPDv7gx36bbRVnysAA (AT) bt (DOT) com... Quote: I imagine that the average 5 hour Tiger Moth pilot knew more about meteorology, airframes and engines than the average multiple choice answering modern pilot can shake a stick at! Andy (older and grumpier by the hour) Well, he might have done, I'm not sure. But I guess when you have to mend father's car every day and hand crank it every time one's driver takes one out, one learns a thing or two about engines! I was pondering other stuff too, during the day, and of course the whole essence of navigation has changed: "see that town in the distance? Well that's Croydon old bean" And there's nothing but fields in between. And if you get lost, well, turn south till you hit the sea, turn left and fly till you find the drome. Better yet, land anywhere, ask the farmer, who will of course be DELIGHTED to welcome you because just everyone is airminded, and he'll tell you where you are! Easy. No airspace worries, no jets, no noise, no Rule 5, just no hassle. It really must have taken so much stress out of it. I don't suppose many of the early pilots learnt at the rate of an hour a fortnight either! I recently had an intensive student at old sarum and the progress he made in a week (he only managed 8 hours due weather) startled him to say the least! Without a doubt had I had a few more hours with him he would have solo'd. But would I send him up in a Spit..? ;o) david I guess that's the sort of environment I learned in (at least the airspace worries and hassle components). But I still reckon that the 'old timers' skill levels were of a high standard. They would have learned a real discipline in their planning and flying that our comfortable radio/VOR/GPS equipped pilots can at times pay lip service to. Not to say that I haven't met many pilots with excellent skills in these areas, just lots of others who like me have probably got a bit complacent. I've flown a bit in developing countries and there's something about a chart (and landscape) with sod all landmarks in hundred mile lumps that concentrates your navigational mind, at least on the minutiae of holding a heading, a speed and proper wind drift etc. The sense of relief when a town emerges from the desert haze is something else! Several years later I tried my hand at 1930s style Instrument Flying, flying real IMC amongst clouds-with-rocks where the only radio aids were commercial AM stations. It again gave a slight sense of how good the early aviators were (and they didn't have the option of a diversion to an airfield, however distant, with luxuries like VOR and ILS). Andy Back to top D Guest Posted: Fri May 04, 2007 9:32 pm    Post subject: Re: Suggestions for somewhere to do residential 4 week NPPL I'll agree, it's a very cost effective way of training, if only I could find a free plane! Cheers In that case then I really would recommend borrowing about 7 rather than five grand and doing as you say, book in for a concentrated course. old sarum is a good place by the way. Oh yes, wherever you go, DO NOT, repeat NOT give them all your dosh before you fly! Pay for what you have done at the end of the day / week, but NOT NOT NOT in advance! Anywhere, ever, whatever they say!!!! David Back to top NoSpam Guest Posted: Sat May 05, 2007 12:21 am    Post subject: Re: Suggestions for somewhere to do residential 4 week NPPL Andy McKenzie wrote: Quote: "D" <David_perry (AT) btconnect (DOT) com> wrote in message news:tcmdnYPDv7gx36bbRVnysAA (AT) bt (DOT) com... I imagine that the average 5 hour Tiger Moth pilot knew more about meteorology, airframes and engines than the average multiple choice answering modern pilot can shake a stick at! Andy (older and grumpier by the hour) Well, he might have done, I'm not sure. But I guess when you have to mend father's car every day and hand crank it every time one's driver takes one out, one learns a thing or two about engines! I was pondering other stuff too, during the day, and of course the whole essence of navigation has changed: "see that town in the distance? Well that's Croydon old bean" And there's nothing but fields in between. And if you get lost, well, turn south till you hit the sea, turn left and fly till you find the drome. Better yet, land anywhere, ask the farmer, who will of course be DELIGHTED to welcome you because just everyone is airminded, and he'll tell you where you are! Easy. No airspace worries, no jets, no noise, no Rule 5, just no hassle. It really must have taken so much stress out of it. I don't suppose many of the early pilots learnt at the rate of an hour a fortnight either! I recently had an intensive student at old sarum and the progress he made in a week (he only managed 8 hours due weather) startled him to say the least! Without a doubt had I had a few more hours with him he would have solo'd. But would I send him up in a Spit..? ;o) david I guess that's the sort of environment I learned in (at least the airspace worries and hassle components). But I still reckon that the 'old timers' skill levels were of a high standard. They would have learned a real discipline in their planning and flying that our comfortable radio/VOR/GPS equipped pilots can at times pay lip service to. Not to say that I haven't met many pilots with excellent skills in these areas, just lots of others who like me have probably got a bit complacent. I've flown a bit in developing countries and there's something about a chart (and landscape) with sod all landmarks in hundred mile lumps that concentrates your navigational mind, at least on the minutiae of holding a heading, a speed and proper wind drift etc. The sense of relief when a town emerges from the desert haze is something else! Several years later I tried my hand at 1930s style Instrument Flying, flying real IMC amongst clouds-with-rocks where the only radio aids were commercial AM stations. It again gave a slight sense of how good the early aviators were (and they didn't have the option of a diversion to an airfield, however distant, with luxuries like VOR and ILS). Andy Not much I can add to this discussion. For various reasons (including changes in society's wealth and expectations) people are (generally) less mechanically able, airspace is (generally) more complex, penalties are (rumoured to be) a worry, and people (sometimes) seem to expect to be able to acquire the skills by osmosis rather than hard work and concentration ... no insult or upset intended. :-) The fear of litigation has never affected my actions but a desire not to read about one of my studes doing something dumb (whether terminal or not) does affect my decisions and actions. Dave Back to top Peter Guest Posted: Sat May 05, 2007 2:08 am    Post subject: Re: Suggestions for somewhere to do residential 4 week NPPL NoSpam <nomail (AT) hursley (DOT) ibm.com> wrote Quote: A final thought - some US schools used to guarantee a "pass" for a fixed fee (and may still do so) but just ask yourself how that can be possible and whether they're likely to use an independent examiner in that situation. I've seen the end result of the "guaranteed pass" schools - people frequently need more training (when they get home) before they're at a safe standard. Beware. I've never heard of a "guaranteed pass". Rest assured that you will fail a US checkride if you are not up to standard. They can guarantee a pass like a driving school can - everybody will pass eventually. Learning in the USA is very different to learning in the UK. Take the typical case of a UK student going over there, versus his/her doing it here: 1) time allocation US: get your head down and fly solidly for a few weeks - rapid learning UK: fit it in between loads of distractions, family/business, hassles, etc, over 1 year or more. If a UK student parked up in a caravan next to the school (having picked a period of super weather first, somehow...) and lived and slept flying, he'd get his PPL done in 4 weeks too, but almost nobody does this here. 2) money US: you already have the budget sorted, otherwise you would not be going there! Anyway, you won't get the US visa if you even look a bit skint. UK: you probably don't have the budget sorted up front; IME many PPL students have just enough for the next 1 or 2 lessons and then they have to stop and save up some more. With few exceptions, the UK scene is skint. 3) age US: Britons going to the USA tend (from what I saw over there) be in the 20-40 age range UK: Average PPL student age is a good 45-50 (some CAA figures on their website) and many are a lot older than that. This is important because the older you are the longer it takes to learn (I took 66hrs at age 43 and that was about average at that school) and also the older people tend to be business/professional types who simply do not tolerate the rather more "quirky personalities" one finds around many schools, and this doesn't help the learning rate... 4) weather US: weather is either very good (Arizona/SoCal) or fairly predictable (Florida) UK: weather is usually poor; occassionally you get lucky but it's no good if you run out of money after a week of solid training! My PPL took 1 year and there was a 90 day period when I booked every day to fly and got just 3 flights in. 5) organisation US: schools have high utilisation and are organised to avoid downtime - where I did my IR they had near-24-hour servicing, a bowser went round all parked aircraft during the night, topping them off with fuel, so everything was ready to roll at 8am UK: airplanes go "tech" regularly and then somebody goes off to sort out where to get it fixed, on the cheap if possible 6) instructor quality This is going to be ultra controversial here! But, *IME*, the UK scene is mostly ATPL hour builders, whereas in the USA there are more long term instructors. They do have hour builders out there too but the ones I met were much more professional than ones I met here in the UK. This can at best be a generalisation but overall it will make a difference to the figures. I have never seen data on how long it took to get a PPL say 50 years ago, but it was a different world then: 1) different attitude to risk - there was a "can do" attitude, and accidents were an accepted risk. Incidentally I don't think the WW2 fighter pilot going solo in 15hrs is a useful analogy because these were young men, the best around, and a far cry from the people doing a PPL today who are on average about 3x older. Some of today's students are ready to go solo in say 5 hours, too. 2) virtually no controlled airspace, so navigation wasn't an issue BUT the methods used then are still taught today as the primary method, so it's not suprising it doesn't hack it. 3) many more airfields - look how many ex airfields there are in say Sussex/Hants - they were all over the place then. Now there are just a few where you can just turn up. So there were more options for a landing if something was not going right - plenty of stories about WW2 fighter pilots getting lost and flying around the s. east UK until they found an airfield; you couldn't do that today. 4) different audience - decades ago, flying was done as an exciting sport by wealthy ambitious and determined young men; occassionally women. Today, these types are doing something else, and the training scene consists mostly of keen but barely solvent people, which is fine but you can't expect them to progress as fast when they are constantly strapped for cash and/or time. 5) much less theoretical knowledge. Even the CAA IR was far easier 20-30 years ago compared to today's 2-3 feet of paper in the ATPL ground school. I know enough people who did their IR back then. The PPL has no mandatory ground school element but the exams have to be passed somehow, which takes yet more time. One final point: the cost of doing a PPL is not a lot compared to the ongoing cost of flying, so if exceeding say a £5k budget is a problem right now, the person won't be flying much afterwards. Back to top PeterD Guest Posted: Sat May 05, 2007 6:14 am    Post subject: Re: Suggestions for somewhere to do residential 4 week NPPL D <David_perry (AT) btconnect (DOT) com> wrote: Quote: Oh yes, wherever you go, DO NOT, repeat NOT give them all your dosh before you fly! Pay for what you have done at the end of the day / week, but NOT NOT NOT in advance! Anywhere, ever, whatever they say!!!! Seconded, if from a slightly different discipline. My nice-but-naive friend gave me a paragliding course for a present a few years ago. The deal was that you gave them (I'd have to dig around for the name - French bloke, paramotor champion) two thousand pounds, the instructor trained you up and at the end you had seventeen hundred towards a paraglider if you buy from him. In hindsight, a fairly obvious "I'm desperate for cashflow" scheme. He went bust between receiving the two grand and my first lesson, so I'm still earthbound. -- Pd Back to top Display posts from previous: All Posts1 Day7 Days2 Weeks1 Month3 Months6 Months1 Year Oldest FirstNewest First         AirTalk.org Forum Index -> Flying related activities in the UK All times are GMT Goto page 1, 2  Next Page 1 of 2   Jump to: Select a forum Aviation----------------alt.aviationAviation safety EnhancementPlanes, gliders and flying in AustraliaAviation et pilotage (Français)rec.aviationAviation (Aerobatics)Hot air, gas balloons and airshipsHang-gliding, paragliding, foot-launched flightAircraft Design & BuildingInstrument Flight RulesAviation (Classifieds)Military AircraftNaval AviationAviation (Miscellaneous Topics)Owning AirplanesAviators (General Discussions)Aviation related productsAircraft RestorationHelicopters and rotary wing aircraftsFlight SimulationSailplanesAviation (Students)Light aircraftFlying related activities in the UK Airports----------------alt.airportsEdinburgh Airport Glasgow Airport Humberside Airport Luton Airport Aberdeen Airport Glasgow Prestwick Airport  You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2006 phpBB Group SEO toolkit © 2004-2006 webmedic.