AirTalk.org Aviation discussions newsgroups   Archives   FAQ   Search   Memberlist   Usergroups   Register   Profile   Log in to check your private messages   Log in  150's and 172's about the only planes flying!! Goto page 1, 2, 3, 4  Next          AirTalk.org Forum Index -> Owning Airplanes View previous topic :: View next topic   Author Message wise purchaser Guest Posted: Tue May 01, 2007 2:42 am    Post subject: 150's and 172's about the only planes flying!! WOW!! Flew my Cessna '150/150 (Sipping MOGAS) today to the local airport to get some maint items done. FBO told me the only airplanes flying anymore are 150's, 172's, small pipers and a few other single engine MOGAS sipping airplanes!! T hangers are full of NON flying 100 LL gas guzzlers (singles and twins) that the owners can no longer afford to fly! I LOVE MY 150 / 150! I just about have the Sky all to my self now!! I have my own runway so the cost of aircraft ownership is very low!!! dosen't get any better!! Back to top Jon Kraus Guest Posted: Tue May 01, 2007 3:08 am    Post subject: Re: 150's and 172's about the only planes flying!! Would that be the runout 150 that you paid $30,000 for you freakn' moron.... What a jackass.... Go away troll... wise purchaser wrote: Quote: WOW!! Flew my Cessna '150/150 (Sipping MOGAS) today to the local airport to get some maint items done. FBO told me the only airplanes flying anymore are 150's, 172's, small pipers and a few other single engine MOGAS sipping airplanes!! T hangers are full of NON flying 100 LL gas guzzlers (singles and twins) that the owners can no longer afford to fly! I LOVE MY 150 / 150! I just about have the Sky all to my self now!! I have my own runway so the cost of aircraft ownership is very low!!! dosen't get any better!! Back to top Peter R. Guest Posted: Tue May 01, 2007 8:11 pm    Post subject: Re: 150's and 172's about the only planes flying!! On 4/30/2007 5:42:08 PM, wise purchaser wrote: Quote: Flew my Cessna '150/150 (Sipping MOGAS) today to the local airport to get some maint items done. FBO told me the only airplanes flying anymore are 150's, 172's, small pipers and a few other single engine MOGAS sipping airplanes!! Based on your other posts, this looks like nothing but a troll, but for discussion purposes the lack of others flying will be a bad thing for you someday, too, since this will result in airports closing up, maintenance shops and FBOs going out of business, and an industry disappears. What you think doesn't affect you will. -- Peter Back to top Lee McGee Guest Posted: Thu May 03, 2007 4:22 am    Post subject: Re: 150's and 172's about the only planes flying!! Check out something more modern, for example if a trainer something like the Diamond DA-20 Eclipse. With an O-235 engine the DA-20 climbs 1,000 fpm and goes about 150mph, all for little 100LL. The DA-20 rents for only $83 per hour wet locally. We also have a small airport out here, Palo Alto (PAO) which has > 400 small airplanes on the field. The flying club I belong to there has about 60 airplanes of many different types. Aviation is not dead, not even close. See www.wvfc.org for that flying club info and list of its rental airplanes, this is typical for California and the West where the economy is good and all is well. Lee McGee Mount Aukum, California "if you think you can't afford something, go make more money. this is not rocket science." "Peter R." <pjricc (AT) gmailX (DOT) com> wrote in message news:VbqdnXVJRZwixarbnZ2dnUVZ_vumnZ2d (AT) giganews (DOT) com... Quote: On 4/30/2007 5:42:08 PM, wise purchaser wrote: Flew my Cessna '150/150 (Sipping MOGAS) today to the local airport to get some maint items done. FBO told me the only airplanes flying anymore are 150's, 172's, small pipers and a few other single engine MOGAS sipping airplanes!! Based on your other posts, this looks like nothing but a troll, but for discussion purposes the lack of others flying will be a bad thing for you someday, too, since this will result in airports closing up, maintenance shops and FBOs going out of business, and an industry disappears. What you think doesn't affect you will. -- Peter Back to top Peter R. Guest Posted: Thu May 03, 2007 6:12 am    Post subject: Re: 150's and 172's about the only planes flying!! On 5/2/2007 7:22:13 PM, "Lee McGee" wrote: Quote: Aviation is not dead, not even close. Certainly not country-wide, but regionally there are signs of a decline. For example, the largest flying club at my home airport of Syracuse, NY, at their peak had over 60 members and three aircraft. These days they have one aircraft and 25 members. The flight school at the same airport's FBO at one time had four aircraft and something like 4,500 hours per year being logged between them. I was told recently by the flight school manager that they now have two aircraft that logged about 1,200 hrs last year. -- Peter Back to top NW_Pilot Guest Posted: Thu May 03, 2007 6:12 am    Post subject: Re: 150's and 172's about the only planes flying!! "wise purchaser" <dfrantz (AT) tennessee (DOT) com> wrote in message news:1177969330.543340.186290 (AT) h2g2000hsg (DOT) googlegroups.com... Quote: WOW!! Flew my Cessna '150/150 (Sipping MOGAS) today to the local airport to get some maint items done. FBO told me the only airplanes flying anymore are 150's, 172's, small pipers and a few other single engine MOGAS sipping airplanes!! T hangers are full of NON flying 100 LL gas guzzlers (singles and twins) that the owners can no longer afford to fly! I LOVE MY 150 / 150! I just about have the Sky all to my self now!! I have my own runway so the cost of aircraft ownership is very low!!! dosen't get any better!! Not True!!!!! I am taking a 100LL Guzzling 182 to the UK or Germany this Weekend! A 150 to Peru After That then no telling what other I will have lines up I hope it's the 172RG to FIJI! Avgas is not that expensive in the States!!! Try $3.00 Yes USD A Liter In Luanda, Angola!!!! or About $16.00 a gallon in Narsarsuaq, Greenland + A massive landing fee! Many other pilots I know are flying 100LL Guzzling birds every day. Now only if i could fly my C-150 more I may have to sell it becuse of lack of use 3 hours Since december! Back to top nrp Guest Posted: Thu May 03, 2007 6:12 am    Post subject: Re: 150's and 172's about the only planes flying!! Itinerant traffic at KSSQ has gone to about zero, even with the excellent VFR WX this spring. This is an airport with insrument approaches, close to town in vacationland, good for $100 hamburgers, & no noise problem. We do not have fuel or an FBO, but the City is supportive of the airport. Even the airport neighbors are talking about it. Everyone active is old & selling their airplanes. Good hangar space is available for renters, and land is available at a good rate for future hangar-builders. Soon I will have to go to the Council for ~$50K for their share of a runway upgrade program. I am VERY concerned about the collapse of traffic, and don't know what to do about it. Back to top Mike Isaksen Guest Posted: Thu May 03, 2007 12:41 pm    Post subject: Re: 150's and 172's about the only planes flying!! "nrp" <daneth1 (AT) earthlink (DOT) net> wrote... Quote: Itinerant traffic at KSSQ has gone to about zero, even with the excellent VFR WX this spring. There's a perfect storm working against us prop pounding GA guys: 1. The age of the average flyer/owner is transitioning from the peak earning years into the fixed income period. A scary phase to own a 30+ year old money hole. 2. Avgas costs are up at around $4/gal, that's almost a 100% increase in 10 years. Makes forward looking projections very difficult. 3. Administrative, operational and insurance hurdles have risen to a point where they seem to dominate every hanger/coffee discussion. This involves everything from changing the 4ft high airport fence to one 8ft barb wire topped with coded security gates. Airport authorites increasing insurance minimums for aircraft in hanger and tiedowns. And limiting access rules for personal cars and family tours. I may see more of this as I'm in a suburban enviornment, but this is where the people (read that as future pilots) are, and I see nothing inviting them in. AOPA has finally ramped up the Project Pilot program to focus on getting new blood into our ranks, but their goals need to be much bigger. I'm talking 100,000 new pilots in the next ten years big. I really want to say 100k in five years should be our growth goal, but 100k in ten years will at least keep us alive. One of the real bright spots the last two years has been the Sport Plane/Pilot arena. Two years ago at SNF I saw ULs with bicycle parts, but now I'm trying on real airplanes and some of them I can actually fit into. They have reduced the kite/glider feel (increased wing loading??), and are starting to demo them at less than WOT settings. My last ride the guy even pulled out a homemade power table, and at 65% that plane felt pretty smooth. All at 4 to 5 gallons/hr for the same speed as a c172/pa28 (minus the two extra seats and baggage). I hope the LSA/SP bring in a new breed of hobby flyers who can stay in for the long haul. This is not intended to put down the Airline Capt wannabees, but I do not think that "new student pilot model" has served Rec GA well. The guys who go career aviation don't tend to do much small GA flying, and I've seen too many bitter outcomes from the student to private to CFI (time building) pyramid scheme. Just my thoughts,... YMMV. Back to top Margy Natalie Guest Posted: Thu May 03, 2007 7:03 pm    Post subject: Re: 150's and 172's about the only planes flying!! Another BIG problem with GA is we aren't getting enough kids involved. The Young Eagles program is great, but it's not enough. Kids can't hang over the airport fence anymore, model airplanes have just about died, RC is expensive for a 12 year old. It used to be kids wanted to grow up and learn how to fly and airplane, now they want to grow up to be a game programmer. That's a problem! If you look at the kid's birthday party supply places there are NO airplane things, and you can't buy an airplane shaped balloon. That says a lot. WARNING SHAMELESS PLUG FOLLOWS So if you want to bring the kids out go to http://www.nasm.si.edu/events/eventDetail.cfm?eventID=602 It will be a great day for the kids! Kids = ages 1-101 Before you ask, all the fly-in spots have been filled for this event and there is already a waiting list. Margy Mike Isaksen wrote: Quote: "nrp" <daneth1 (AT) earthlink (DOT) net> wrote... Itinerant traffic at KSSQ has gone to about zero, even with the excellent VFR WX this spring. There's a perfect storm working against us prop pounding GA guys: 1. The age of the average flyer/owner is transitioning from the peak earning years into the fixed income period. A scary phase to own a 30+ year old money hole. 2. Avgas costs are up at around $4/gal, that's almost a 100% increase in 10 years. Makes forward looking projections very difficult. 3. Administrative, operational and insurance hurdles have risen to a point where they seem to dominate every hanger/coffee discussion. This involves everything from changing the 4ft high airport fence to one 8ft barb wire topped with coded security gates. Airport authorites increasing insurance minimums for aircraft in hanger and tiedowns. And limiting access rules for personal cars and family tours. I may see more of this as I'm in a suburban enviornment, but this is where the people (read that as future pilots) are, and I see nothing inviting them in. AOPA has finally ramped up the Project Pilot program to focus on getting new blood into our ranks, but their goals need to be much bigger. I'm talking 100,000 new pilots in the next ten years big. I really want to say 100k in five years should be our growth goal, but 100k in ten years will at least keep us alive. One of the real bright spots the last two years has been the Sport Plane/Pilot arena. Two years ago at SNF I saw ULs with bicycle parts, but now I'm trying on real airplanes and some of them I can actually fit into. They have reduced the kite/glider feel (increased wing loading??), and are starting to demo them at less than WOT settings. My last ride the guy even pulled out a homemade power table, and at 65% that plane felt pretty smooth. All at 4 to 5 gallons/hr for the same speed as a c172/pa28 (minus the two extra seats and baggage). I hope the LSA/SP bring in a new breed of hobby flyers who can stay in for the long haul. This is not intended to put down the Airline Capt wannabees, but I do not think that "new student pilot model" has served Rec GA well. The guys who go career aviation don't tend to do much small GA flying, and I've seen too many bitter outcomes from the student to private to CFI (time building) pyramid scheme. Just my thoughts,... YMMV. Back to top Jay Honeck Guest Posted: Thu May 03, 2007 7:23 pm    Post subject: Re: 150's and 172's about the only planes flying!! Quote: Another BIG problem with GA is we aren't getting enough kids involved. The Young Eagles program is great, but it's not enough. Kids can't hang over the airport fence anymore, model airplanes have just about died, RC is expensive for a 12 year old. It used to be kids wanted to grow up and learn how to fly and airplane, now they want to grow up to be a game programmer. That's a problem! If you look at the kid's birthday party supply places there are NO airplane things, and you can't buy an airplane shaped balloon. That says a lot. I ran into this problem a few years ago, while looking for gifts for my young nephews and nieces. OF COURSE Uncle Jay *had* to give airplane toys -- yet I had to look long and hard to find them. Imagine, and entire toy store with just one or two airplanes! It was depressing. As for R/C being expensive, I'm happy to report that the trend has gone quite dramatically the other way in recent years. When I first got into R/C flight, back in the 1980s, you needed at least $300 to get started -- AND you had to build your own plane. Now, with the advent of advanced battery-powered airplanes, you can get into a pre- built plane for far less -- often under $100. Our local R/C club is BOOMING. But you're right about computers. They have sapped the life out of our kids, by allowing them to experience the world without ever leaving their chairs. I suppose you might look at this as a good thing, from an evolutionary standpoint, but I find it terribly sad. The next ten years will decide the fate of GA. You and Ron do what you can, and Mary and I will continue to be the "Pied Pipers" of GA in Iowa. Beyond that, I don't know what else to do. Getting pilots to do anything -- even if it's to save their own fate -- is like herding cats... -- Jay Honeck Iowa City, IA Pathfinder N56993 www.AlexisParkInn.com "Your Aviation Destination" Back to top Peter R. Guest Posted: Thu May 03, 2007 7:24 pm    Post subject: Re: 150's and 172's about the only planes flying!! On 5/3/2007 10:03:56 AM, Margy Natalie wrote: Quote: Before you ask, all the fly-in spots have been filled for this event and there is already a waiting list. Margy, I am certainly do not mean to attack the messenger here, but does anyone besides me find this ironic? -- Peter Back to top Margy Natalie Guest Posted: Thu May 03, 2007 8:28 pm    Post subject: Re: 150's and 172's about the only planes flying!! Peter R. wrote: Quote: On 5/3/2007 10:03:56 AM, Margy Natalie wrote: Before you ask, all the fly-in spots have been filled for this event and there is already a waiting list. Margy, I am certainly do not mean to attack the messenger here, but does anyone besides me find this ironic? Why ironic? We can only bring in 50 airplanes and our communications guy put a sign up sheet at OSH last year. I can tell you the average age of the pilots is NOT 25. Anyone within fair striking distance should tell their friends and neighbors! Of course friends and neighbors of pilots get to do things like sit in airplanes, but I can tell you there are LOTS of people who have NEVER had the opportunity to get anywhere near anything other than an airliner. If each one of us (Pilots) inspired one kid a year for the next 10 years to go out when he or she was 25 and get a ticket, we would have done really well. And if we each got 2 kids, imagine, 2 kids a year, well we might have a movement... Margy Back to top Peter R. Guest Posted: Thu May 03, 2007 8:53 pm    Post subject: Re: 150's and 172's about the only planes flying!! On 5/3/2007 11:28:36 AM, Margy Natalie wrote: Quote: Why ironic? We can only bring in 50 airplanes and our communications guy put a sign up sheet at OSH last year. Hmm, upon rereading maybe I don't understand the definition of "fly-in spots." Does this mean that if I wanted to fly to the event that I could not do so or does this mean something else? I had interpreted "fly-in spots" to mean number of airplanes allowed to fly to the airport for the event and if so, it seemed unfortunate that such a wonderful event would be limited by that. Driving to the event would be out of the question for me. -- Peter Back to top Morgans Guest Posted: Fri May 04, 2007 1:47 am    Post subject: Re: 150's and 172's about the only planes flying!! "Jay Honeck" <jjhoneck (AT) mchsi (DOT) com> wrote Quote: The next ten years will decide the fate of GA. You and Ron do what you can, and Mary and I will continue to be the "Pied Pipers" of GA in Iowa. Beyond that, I don't know what else to do. Getting pilots to do anything -- even if it's to save their own fate -- is like herding cats... One BIG thing that pilots need to do, is to invite people along with them, when they go flying. I don't have a "certificate" YET, and I always tell everyone I know that is a pilot, that I would JUMP at the chance to go flying with them, especially when they are going out by themselves. I don't get near the invitations that I would like. So, if everyone would be more open to invite a prospective pilot along, DO IT !!! It might be what someone needs to get off of the fence, and go for it. -- Jim in NC Back to top LWG Guest Posted: Fri May 04, 2007 2:42 am    Post subject: Re: 150's and 172's about the only planes flying!! I think you missed one of the biggest components of the perfect storm. The act that helped resurrect GA limits the liability of manufacturers depending upon the age of the aircraft. So enterprising plaintiff lawyers will have to find someone else to sue besides manufacturers. That means mechanics, since someone with deep pockets has to be responsible for all GA accidents. So many shops will not work on older aircraft, since if something happens, they will be the only defendants in the suit, and their carrier will be the only one on the risk. So not only are the airframes aging, the mechanics are aging, and the mechanics and shops have a strong financial disincentive to work on older aircraft. Plus, everything else you said... "Mike Isaksen" <misaksen (AT) verizon (DOT) net> wrote in message news:Lmg_h.8534$f17.4923@trndny05... Quote: "nrp" <daneth1 (AT) earthlink (DOT) net> wrote... Itinerant traffic at KSSQ has gone to about zero, even with the excellent VFR WX this spring. There's a perfect storm working against us prop pounding GA guys: 1. The age of the average flyer/owner is transitioning from the peak earning years into the fixed income period. A scary phase to own a 30+ year old money hole. 2. Avgas costs are up at around $4/gal, that's almost a 100% increase in 10 years. Makes forward looking projections very difficult. 3. Administrative, operational and insurance hurdles have risen to a point where they seem to dominate every hanger/coffee discussion. This involves everything from changing the 4ft high airport fence to one 8ft barb wire topped with coded security gates. Airport authorites increasing insurance minimums for aircraft in hanger and tiedowns. And limiting access rules for personal cars and family tours. 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