AirTalk.org Aviation discussions newsgroups   Archives   FAQ   Search   Memberlist   Usergroups   Register   Profile   Log in to check your private messages   Log in  I don't know how to flight plan any more Goto page 1, 2, 3  Next          AirTalk.org Forum Index -> Instrument Flight Rules View previous topic :: View next topic   Author Message Paul Tomblin Guest Posted: Fri Apr 27, 2007 2:04 am    Post subject: I don't know how to flight plan any more I'm flying to Pittsburgh this weekend, and as usual I'm going to KAGC (Allegheny County). But for a change, instead of taking the club's Lance I'm going to be taking the Dakota - and unlike the Lance, the Dakota has a Garmin 530W in it. Now normally, I'd pull out the route I have on my PDA in CoPilot, plot it on a couple of low altitude enroute charts, and file a flight plan on those airways. But with the GPS, I'm not sure how to proceed. Should I just draw a straight line and file direct? I know that the straight route doesn't go through any special use airspace, and the altitude I normally fly is high enough to clear any obstacles. Hey, the worse that could happen is that they give me a full route clearance, right? And I'll bet the full route clearance isn't too far off my normal route. -- Paul Tomblin <ptomblin (AT) xcski (DOT) com> http://blog.xcski.com/ "We choose to go to the moon in this decade and do the other things, not because they are easy, but because they are hard...." - John F Kennedy Back to top john smith Guest Posted: Fri Apr 27, 2007 6:11 am    Post subject: Re: I don't know how to flight plan any more In article <f0rlna$meu$1 (AT) allhats (DOT) xcski.com>, ptomblin+netnews (AT) xcski (DOT) com (Paul Tomblin) wrote: Quote: I'm flying to Pittsburgh this weekend, and as usual I'm going to KAGC (Allegheny County). But for a change, instead of taking the club's Lance I'm going to be taking the Dakota - and unlike the Lance, the Dakota has a Garmin 530W in it. Now normally, I'd pull out the route I have on my PDA in CoPilot, plot it on a couple of low altitude enroute charts, and file a flight plan on those airways. But with the GPS, I'm not sure how to proceed. Should I just draw a straight line and file direct? I know that the straight route doesn't go through any special use airspace, and the altitude I normally fly is high enough to clear any obstacles. Hey, the worse that could happen is that they give me a full route clearance, right? And I'll bet the full route clearance isn't too far off my normal route. If you are /G, file a flight plan as you would have an RNAV route. Draw your lines on the chart, record the headings. File one waypoint in each ATC sector, VOR/Radial/Distance (every 50-100 nm). Don Brown wrote an excellent article on this topic. It is in the AvWeb archives. Back to top Viperdoc Guest Posted: Fri Apr 27, 2007 6:11 am    Post subject: Re: I don't know how to flight plan any more I agree that the new boxes can lead to complacency, and I still tune the VOR's along the route, although it really has become an academic exercise only. The 530 makes stuff like tracking an NDB outbound with a strong crosswind a thing of the past. The new box gives exact course guidance, suggests when to do the PT, along with the correct headings, and will guide you to the missed approach point with the correct holding pattern entry. It really helps the situational awareness in IMC. Back to top Mortimer Schnerd, RN Guest Posted: Fri Apr 27, 2007 6:11 am    Post subject: Re: I don't know how to flight plan any more Viperdoc wrote: Quote: Pick a safe altitude and file direct. I've gone from Wisconsin to Charleston, SC direct, as well as upstate New York, and South Dakota without a course change, all using the 530/430. If the course ends up crossing an active MOA or restricted area, ATC will vector you around as needed. Who needs victor airways and VOR's? Listen to the XM radio while you're enroute. Tune the VOR's and practice your Morse code if you have to, because you won't need them for navigation. You know, the greatest danger with those systems is complacency. I did a flight many years ago when LORAN first became available in GA aircraft and was on my way from Charlotte, NC to Beverly, MA when the system decided to change chains on me. Oops. There I was, not paying a whole lot of attention and all of the sudden I didn't know where I was. I mean, I knew I was somewhere on a direct line between CLT and BVY but that was about it. I was just daydreaming away... something I'd never do on a conventional victor airway flight. Not only did I have to figure out where I was, I had to figure out what happened to the LORAN. I learned that they had chains and that they sometimes needed to be changed depending on where you were. I managed but there were a few minutes of sheer confusion while I was dealing with it. Thank God I wasn't in turbulence. Quote: Shoot a LNAV/VNAV or LPV approach and see how steady the needles are compared to an ILS. I really got to learn how to do one of those. I can still fly a good NDB approach and my ILS work looks good, but those GPS approaches are beyond me. I guess I need to pay an instructor. I hate that. -- Mortimer Schnerd, RN mschnerdatcarolina.rr.com Back to top Viperdoc Guest Posted: Fri Apr 27, 2007 6:11 am    Post subject: Re: I don't know how to flight plan any more Pick a safe altitude and file direct. I've gone from Wisconsin to Charleston, SC direct, as well as upstate New York, and South Dakota without a course change, all using the 530/430. If the course ends up crossing an active MOA or restricted area, ATC will vector you around as needed. Who needs victor airways and VOR's? Listen to the XM radio while you're enroute. Tune the VOR's and practice your Morse code if you have to, because you won't need them for navigation. It's great to hear cleared as filed when you depart on a four hour trip. Shoot a LNAV/VNAV or LPV approach and see how steady the needles are compared to an ILS. Good luck and enjoy playing with the box. Back to top Matt Barrow Guest Posted: Fri Apr 27, 2007 6:45 pm    Post subject: Re: I don't know how to flight plan any more "Mortimer Schnerd, RN" <mschnerdatcarolina.rr.com> wrote in message news:k8adnajwWdR0_qzbnZ2dnUVZ_j6dnZ2d (AT) giganews (DOT) com... Quote: Viperdoc wrote: Pick a safe altitude and file direct. I've gone from Wisconsin to Charleston, SC direct, as well as upstate New York, and South Dakota without a course change, all using the 530/430. If the course ends up crossing an active MOA or restricted area, ATC will vector you around as needed. Who needs victor airways and VOR's? Listen to the XM radio while you're enroute. Tune the VOR's and practice your Morse code if you have to, because you won't need them for navigation. You know, the greatest danger with those systems is complacency. The greatest danger with ANY system is complacency. How many pilots missed a VOR flag popping off? Etc. Back to top Matt Barrow Guest Posted: Fri Apr 27, 2007 6:46 pm    Post subject: Re: I don't know how to flight plan any more "Viperdoc" <jninomi (AT) NOattglobalSPAMMS (DOT) net> wrote in message news:4631672a$0$5772$4c368faf (AT) roadrunner (DOT) com... Quote: I agree that the new boxes can lead to complacency, and I still tune the VOR's along the route, although it really has become an academic exercise only. The 530 makes stuff like tracking an NDB outbound with a strong crosswind a thing of the past. The new box gives exact course guidance, suggests when to do the PT, along with the correct headings, and will guide you to the missed approach point with the correct holding pattern entry. It really helps the situational awareness in IMC. And in VMC. For example, on the traffic page, it's nice to know someone is creeping up behind you. Back to top Jim Carter Guest Posted: Fri Apr 27, 2007 7:38 pm    Post subject: Re: I don't know how to flight plan any more Yeah - these new boxes devalue all those years of gritting teeth, sweating brow, and puckering ... and make those learning experiences worth much less - until the damn things quit. -- Jim Carter Rogers, Arkansas "Viperdoc" <jninomi (AT) NOattglobalSPAMMS (DOT) net> wrote in message news:4631672a$0$5772$4c368faf (AT) roadrunner (DOT) com... Quote: ... The 530 makes stuff like tracking an NDB outbound with a strong crosswind a thing of the past. Back to top Matt Barrow Guest Posted: Fri Apr 27, 2007 7:43 pm    Post subject: Re: I don't know how to flight plan any more "Jim Carter" <jim.carter (AT) swbell (DOT) net> wrote in message news:EVnYh.3615$H_.1454 (AT) newssvr21 (DOT) news.prodigy.net... Quote: Yeah - these new boxes devalue all those years of gritting teeth, sweating brow, and puckering ... and make those learning experiences worth much less - until the damn things quit. -- Jim Carter Rogers, Arkansas Jim, I certainly hope you cut your grass with a slingblade. Quote: "Viperdoc" <jninomi (AT) NOattglobalSPAMMS (DOT) net> wrote in message news:4631672a$0$5772$4c368faf (AT) roadrunner (DOT) com... ... The 530 makes stuff like tracking an NDB outbound with a strong crosswind a thing of the past. Back to top Jim Carter Guest Posted: Fri Apr 27, 2007 7:49 pm    Post subject: Re: I don't know how to flight plan any more C'mon Matt - power mowers are the way to go, but when they break it sure is nice to still be in shape to use the slingblade if we have to. That was my whole point. -- Jim Carter Rogers, Arkansas "Matt Barrow" <mbarrow (AT) performancehomes (DOT) com> wrote in message news:jZnYh.43113$cJ1.18149 (AT) newsfe13 (DOT) lga... Quote: "Jim Carter" <jim.carter (AT) swbell (DOT) net> wrote in message news:EVnYh.3615$H_.1454 (AT) newssvr21 (DOT) news.prodigy.net... Yeah - these new boxes devalue all those years of gritting teeth, sweating brow, and puckering ... and make those learning experiences worth much less - until the damn things quit. -- Jim Carter Rogers, Arkansas Jim, I certainly hope you cut your grass with a slingblade. "Viperdoc" <jninomi (AT) NOattglobalSPAMMS (DOT) net> wrote in message news:4631672a$0$5772$4c368faf (AT) roadrunner (DOT) com... ... The 530 makes stuff like tracking an NDB outbound with a strong crosswind a thing of the past. Back to top Ross Guest Posted: Fri Apr 27, 2007 8:18 pm    Post subject: Re: I don't know how to flight plan any more Jim Carter wrote: Quote: C'mon Matt - power mowers are the way to go, but when they break it sure is nice to still be in shape to use the slingblade if we have to. That was my whole point. Our next EAA meeting is going to be on the old pilotage. Then in a couple of weeks, we will be given a short route to fly that is not over VORS, etc. Honor system not to turn on the GPS. Time and fuel burn will be recorded (by refilling at the destination). The destination is lunch and compare results. We will not know the route until that day. Should be fun. -- Regards, Ross C-172F 180HP KSWI Back to top Frank Ch. Eigler Guest Posted: Fri Apr 27, 2007 10:31 pm    Post subject: Re: I don't know how to flight plan any more ptomblin+netnews (AT) xcski (DOT) com (Paul Tomblin) writes: Quote: [...] I'm going to be taking the Dakota - and unlike the Lance, the Dakota has a Garmin 530W in it. Now normally, I'd pull out the route I have on my PDA in CoPilot, plot it on a couple of low altitude enroute charts, and file a flight plan on those airways. But with the GPS, I'm not sure how to proceed. [...] Why not do the exact same thing - follow the airways and make controllers' lives probably a little bit easier? - FChE Back to top Matt Barrow Guest Posted: Fri Apr 27, 2007 11:18 pm    Post subject: Re: I don't know how to flight plan any more "Jim Carter" <jim.carter (AT) swbell (DOT) net> wrote in message news:74oYh.3618$H_.922 (AT) newssvr21 (DOT) news.prodigy.net... Quote: C'mon Matt - power mowers are the way to go, but when they break it sure is nice to still be in shape to use the slingblade if we have to. That was my whole point. I would hope that making the "when the damn things quit" point would be rhetorical, just like when the engine quits, the radio quits, the vacuum punp pukes, the NAV radio goes "boink"... I can't see a G-V pilot keeping a sectional at their side :~) BTW, what is the MTBF of a ADHARS versus a vacuum pump? :~) Maybe our complaceny is more a matter of orders-of-magnitude better reliability they provide, than the copious amounts of data they give us. Call me careless/reckless, but if my system goes kablooie, I'd call ATC on the handheld I always carry, declare a loss of navigation instrumentation, and ask for vectors. I'm probably a bit testy, but I get tired of hearing the neo-Luddite alarms. Since there is no known instance in NTSB records of an accident after a nav system failure, it's likely our attention should be more on losing control when things ARE going well, such as CFIT, the (much) bigger source of accidents. Quote: Jim, I certainly hope you cut your grass with a slingblade. Oh, BTW, when I mowed my grass for the firs time this year, the mower pickup up a small rock and took out the glass in our sliding glass door for the patio. :~( -- Matt Barrow Performace Homes, LLC. Colorado Springs, CO Back to top Matt Barrow Guest Posted: Fri Apr 27, 2007 11:20 pm    Post subject: Re: I don't know how to flight plan any more "Frank Ch. Eigler" <fche (AT) redhat (DOT) com> wrote in message news:y0m7irxpvvb.fsf (AT) ton (DOT) toronto.redhat.com... Quote: ptomblin+netnews (AT) xcski (DOT) com (Paul Tomblin) writes: [...] I'm going to be taking the Dakota - and unlike the Lance, the Dakota has a Garmin 530W in it. Now normally, I'd pull out the route I have on my PDA in CoPilot, plot it on a couple of low altitude enroute charts, and file a flight plan on those airways. But with the GPS, I'm not sure how to proceed. [...] Why not do the exact same thing - follow the airways and make controllers' lives probably a little bit easier? Because that would NOT make their lives easier (due to congestion on the airways)? Back to top Frank Ch. Eigler Guest Posted: Sat Apr 28, 2007 12:06 am    Post subject: Re: I don't know how to flight plan any more "Matt Barrow" <mbarrow (AT) performancehomes (DOT) com> writes: Quote: Why not do the exact same thing - follow the airways and make controllers' lives probably a little bit easier? Because that would NOT make their lives easier (due to congestion on the airways)? Where did you hear that this was a serious problem (for spam cans)? And just in case it were a problem any given day, a controller who sees a /G can issue a direct clearance as a "decongestant". - FChE Back to top Display posts from previous: All Posts1 Day7 Days2 Weeks1 Month3 Months6 Months1 Year Oldest FirstNewest First         AirTalk.org Forum Index -> Instrument Flight Rules All times are GMT Goto page 1, 2, 3  Next Page 1 of 3   Jump to: Select a forum Aviation----------------alt.aviationAviation safety EnhancementPlanes, gliders and flying in AustraliaAviation et pilotage (Français)rec.aviationAviation (Aerobatics)Hot air, gas balloons and airshipsHang-gliding, paragliding, foot-launched flightAircraft Design & BuildingInstrument Flight RulesAviation (Classifieds)Military AircraftNaval AviationAviation (Miscellaneous Topics)Owning AirplanesAviators (General Discussions)Aviation related productsAircraft RestorationHelicopters and rotary wing aircraftsFlight SimulationSailplanesAviation (Students)Light aircraftFlying related activities in the UK Airports----------------alt.airportsEdinburgh Airport Glasgow Airport Humberside Airport Luton Airport Aberdeen Airport Glasgow Prestwick Airport  You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2006 phpBB Group SEO toolkit © 2004-2006 webmedic.