AirTalk.org Aviation discussions newsgroups   Archives   FAQ   Search   Memberlist   Usergroups   Register   Profile   Log in to check your private messages   Log in  Cost of a High Performance/Complex A/C endorsement?          AirTalk.org Forum Index -> Aviation (Students) View previous topic :: View next topic   Author Message Sinnerman Guest Posted: Sat Apr 21, 2007 1:33 am    Post subject: Cost of a High Performance/Complex A/C endorsement? Hey folks - The local C.A.P squadron here is about to acquire a G1000 Cessna 206 - very exciting! I just got my PPL in late February and I thought I'd ask around here and see what the usual cost is for obtaining both a High Performance and Complex Aircraft endorsement. What training is evolved? I plan on consulting the F.A.R, but I thought I'd post here as well in case anyone had any specific hints/tips/recommendations. Thanks! `Lucas St.Laurent Back to top Sinnerman Guest Posted: Sat Apr 21, 2007 1:35 am    Post subject: Re: Cost of a High Performance/Complex A/C endorsement? Should read "involved" - not evolved......=P Back to top john smith Guest Posted: Sat Apr 21, 2007 2:48 am    Post subject: Re: Cost of a High Performance/Complex A/C endorsement? In article <1177101219.051907.79490 (AT) l77g2000hsb (DOT) googlegroups.com>, Sinnerman <lucas (AT) lethalpaintball (DOT) com> wrote: Quote: Hey folks - The local C.A.P squadron here is about to acquire a G1000 Cessna 206 - very exciting! I just got my PPL in late February and I thought I'd ask around here and see what the usual cost is for obtaining both a High Performance and Complex Aircraft endorsement. What training is evolved? If you belong to the CAP, I would think you could obtain the endorsement from a CAP instructor in that aircraft. Time would be your only expense. If you are to obtain the HP endorsement on your own, it will cost you the instructor and the minimum time set by the insurance company that covers the aircraft you rent, multiplied by the hourly rental rate. Endorsements are becoming another obstacle to pilots as the cost of HP rental increases. The flying club I am a member of, has a ten hour dual minimum experience before signoff in a 182. The G1000 equipped will require special study and possibly additional hours. Jer from Colorado may have more insight to the specifics. Back to top Robert M. Gary Guest Posted: Sat Apr 21, 2007 3:01 am    Post subject: Re: Cost of a High Performance/Complex A/C endorsement? On Apr 20, 1:33 pm, Sinnerman <l...@lethalpaintball.com> wrote: Quote: Hey folks - The local C.A.P squadron here is about to acquire a G1000 Cessna 206 - very exciting! I just got my PPL in late February and I thought I'd ask around here and see what the usual cost is for obtaining both a High Performance and Complex Aircraft endorsement. What training is evolved? I plan on consulting the F.A.R, but I thought I'd post here as well in case anyone had any specific hints/tips/recommendations. Thanks! `Lucas St.Laurent You can't get a complex ensorsement in the CAP 206 (fixed gear). CAP has some new rules on HP endorsements including the need to have a Check Pilot sign your F5 who was not the instructor that gave you your instruction. Even if you have a F5 for a 206, you will need a separate F5 for NavIII. The CAP G1000 course requires a min of 3 hours but few students complete all 3 modules in 3 hours. A VFR only checkout is easier though. Having a current F5 in 206 will make things take a bit less time. -Robert, CFII (and CAP Check Pilot) Back to top Mike 'Flyin'8 Guest Posted: Sat Apr 21, 2007 3:37 am    Post subject: Re: Cost of a High Performance/Complex A/C endorsement? A CFI that I use for BFR and skill de-rusting said about 10 hours flight time. On 20 Apr 2007 13:33:39 -0700, Sinnerman <lucas (AT) lethalpaintball (DOT) com> wrote: Quote: Hey folks - The local C.A.P squadron here is about to acquire a G1000 Cessna 206 - very exciting! I just got my PPL in late February and I thought I'd ask around here and see what the usual cost is for obtaining both a High Performance and Complex Aircraft endorsement. What training is evolved? I plan on consulting the F.A.R, but I thought I'd post here as well in case anyone had any specific hints/tips/recommendations. Thanks! `Lucas St.Laurent Mike Alexander PP-ASEL Temecula, CA See my online aerial photo album at http://flying.4alexanders.com Back to top Ron Natalie Guest Posted: Sat Apr 21, 2007 5:00 pm    Post subject: Re: Cost of a High Performance/Complex A/C endorsement? Mike 'Flyin'8' wrote: Quote: A CFI that I use for BFR and skill de-rusting said about 10 hours flight time. He's hard up for money. Unless your skills are otherwise defective I can't see even spending half that much time for just the endorsement. Of course a lot of schools for insurance proficiency and whatever other reasons won't rent you a complex aircraft with that little time. Back to top Roger (K8RI) Guest Posted: Wed Apr 25, 2007 10:59 pm    Post subject: Re: Cost of a High Performance/Complex A/C endorsement? On Sat, 21 Apr 2007 08:00:33 -0400, Ron Natalie <ron (AT) spamcop (DOT) net> wrote: Quote: Mike 'Flyin'8' wrote: A CFI that I use for BFR and skill de-rusting said about 10 hours flight time. He's hard up for money. Unless your skills are otherwise defective I can't see even spending half that much time for just the endorsement. Of course a lot of schools for insurance proficiency and whatever other reasons won't rent you a complex aircraft with that little time. I agree with Ron in what it'd probably take to earn the endorsement and likewise with the insurance and renting...Although depeding on the plane you may find that will do fine for higer performance, complex, but they may want a fair amount of experience before renting retracts. Back to top Guest Posted: Tue May 01, 2007 2:36 am    Post subject: Re: Cost of a High Performance/Complex A/C endorsement? Quote: Jer from Colorado may have more insight to the specifics. There is a G1000 training supplement to CAPR_60-1. If you can fly and get checked out in ANYTHING with a G1000 before the C206, you will be money ahead. CAP has sent checkpilots to the Cessna Factory Approved Instructor training. They will train the instructor pilots, who will train the CAP pilots. A further suggestion... as every other CAP pilot will be chasing the C206/G1000 and the T182T/G1000, the load will be lighter on the regular C182 (steam gauges). Get your high performance signoff in the regular 182 BEFORE launching into the C206/G1000. There is FAR more going on transitioning to the C206/G1000 than just the high performance signoff. Best regards, LtCol Jer/ Eberhard, Colorado Wing Checkpilot (airplanes and gliders), Assistant Glider Program Manager, Colorado Wing, CAP -- LtCol Jer/ Eberhard, CO-Wing, Thompson Valley CS., Ft Collins, CO CELL/VM: 970 231-6325 EMAIL: jer'at'frii.com WEB: http://users.frii.com/jer/ C-206 N9513G, CFII Airplane&Glider FAA-DEN Aviation Safety Counselor CAP-CO Mission&Aircraft CheckPilot BM218 HAM N0FZD 247 Young Eagles! Back to top GeorgeC Guest Posted: Tue May 01, 2007 6:17 am    Post subject: Re: Cost of a High Performance/Complex A/C endorsement? When I'm transition to a new airplane, I find Sims a big help. Here are two that might help. Gramin has a Simulator for the G1000. The cost is about $10.00 for a DVD. Warning, be sure to check the hardware requirement before you buy. Some of the pilots could not get it to work on they old computers. http://www.garmin.com/products/g1000/ Abacus had a Civil Air Patrol add-on for FS2004 and FSX. It has a Cessna 182 (steam gages or G1000) and Maule MT-260. It also Features "A Custom Mission Builder" which you can make your own SAR. You can fly as either as a mission pilot or as a scanner. The add-on cost about $30.00 plus SH. If you are a CAP member you get a discount. http:/abacuspub.com/catalog/s644.htm I had a problem with the C182. There is no manifold pressure gage in FDX. In FS2004 there is a manifold pressure gage. GeorgeC Back to top gatt Guest Posted: Thu May 10, 2007 11:18 pm    Post subject: Re: Cost of a High Performance/Complex A/C endorsement? Quote: I just got my PPL in late February and I thought I'd ask around here and see what the usual cost is for obtaining both a High Performance and Complex Aircraft endorsement. What training is evolved? Endorsements are becoming another obstacle to pilots as the cost of HP rental increases. The flying club I am a member of, has a ten hour dual minimum experience before signoff in a 182. I think that ten hours of dual time is barely sufficient to properly instruct a newly-minted PPL in a complex aircraft. -c Back to top Larry Stimely Guest Posted: Fri May 11, 2007 12:46 am    Post subject: Re: Cost of a High Performance/Complex A/C endorsement? gatt wrote: Quote: I just got my PPL in late February and I thought I'd ask around here and see what the usual cost is for obtaining both a High Performance and Complex Aircraft endorsement. What training is evolved? Endorsements are becoming another obstacle to pilots as the cost of HP rental increases. The flying club I am a member of, has a ten hour dual minimum experience before signoff in a 182. I think that ten hours of dual time is barely sufficient to properly instruct a newly-minted PPL in a complex aircraft. I wouldn't do it in less than twenty and I wouldn't allow it in less than twenty for any airplane that I owned. Back to top gatt Guest Posted: Fri May 11, 2007 2:41 am    Post subject: Re: Cost of a High Performance/Complex A/C endorsement? "Larry Stimely" <stimely (AT) sbcglobal (DOT) net> wrote in message news:1EK0i.7658$2v1.3713 (AT) newssvr14 (DOT) news.prodigy.net... Quote: I think that ten hours of dual time is barely sufficient to properly instruct a newly-minted PPL in a complex aircraft. I wouldn't do it in less than twenty and I wouldn't allow it in less than twenty for any airplane that I owned. Well, it took me a good 20 hours before I was able to start the freakin' engine on a hot day every time. (200HP PA-28R) One thing I -just love- is having the passengers all buckled and ready in the sauna-hot airplane, trying to crank the engine over before the battery dies, and then hearing some guy outside going "Excuse me. Did you know there's a puddle of FUEL where it's been shooting out of your plane? I think you flooded it." I basically figured out how to flood-start it and then reverse-engineered the process. -c Back to top C J Campbell Guest Posted: Fri May 11, 2007 6:13 am    Post subject: Re: Cost of a High Performance/Complex A/C endorsement? On 2007-04-20 13:33:39 -0700, Sinnerman <lucas (AT) lethalpaintball (DOT) com> said: Quote: Hey folks - The local C.A.P squadron here is about to acquire a G1000 Cessna 206 - very exciting! I just got my PPL in late February and I thought I'd ask around here and see what the usual cost is for obtaining both a High Performance and Complex Aircraft endorsement. What training is evolved? I plan on consulting the F.A.R, but I thought I'd post here as well in case anyone had any specific hints/tips/recommendations. Thanks! `Lucas St.Laurent Unless the rules have changed you cannot get a complex endorsement in a Cessna 206, G1000 or otherwise. The 206 has fixed gear. -- Waddling Eagle World Famous Flight Instructor Back to top Roger (K8RI) Guest Posted: Fri May 11, 2007 6:13 am    Post subject: Re: Cost of a High Performance/Complex A/C endorsement? On Thu, 10 May 2007 14:41:14 -0700, "gatt" <LiveFromTheClocktower (AT) gfy (DOT) com> wrote: Quote: "Larry Stimely" <stimely (AT) sbcglobal (DOT) net> wrote in message news:1EK0i.7658$2v1.3713 (AT) newssvr14 (DOT) news.prodigy.net... I think that ten hours of dual time is barely sufficient to properly instruct a newly-minted PPL in a complex aircraft. I wouldn't do it in less than twenty and I wouldn't allow it in less than twenty for any airplane that I owned. Well, it took me a good 20 hours before I was able to start the freakin' engine on a hot day every time. (200HP PA-28R) One thing I -just love- is having the passengers all buckled and ready in the sauna-hot airplane, trying to crank the engine over before the battery dies, and then hearing some guy outside going "Excuse me. Did you know there's a puddle of FUEL where it's been shooting out of your plane? I think you flooded it." I basically figured out how to flood-start it and then reverse-engineered the process. That's what I really like about older airplanes with big fuel injected engines. Mine has a separate starter and ignition switch. When the engine is hot, run the fuel pump with mixture in cut off to clear out the vapor in the line, full rich just long enough to flood the engine, pump off, starter on through about three revolutions (not blades), ignition on. Never had it fail. And, yes it spits fuel out the stacks. If you hear a strange "whistling, whump" from up front, KEEP CRANKING!<) Quote: -c Back to top gatt Guest Posted: Sat May 12, 2007 1:08 am    Post subject: Re: Cost of a High Performance/Complex A/C endorsement? "Roger (K8RI)" <validaddress (AT) my (DOT) com> wrote in message news:j2i743l6rh4mgm85e1ro02qedn0ijbhbal (AT) 4ax (DOT) com... Quote: I basically figured out how to flood-start it and then reverse-engineered the process. That's what I really like about older airplanes with big fuel injected engines. Mine has a separate starter and ignition switch. When the engine is hot, run the fuel pump with mixture in cut off to clear out the vapor in the line, full rich just long enough to flood the engine, pump off, starter on through about three revolutions (not blades), ignition on. Never had it fail. And, yes it spits fuel out the stacks. If you hear a strange "whistling, whump" from up front, KEEP CRANKING!<) Useful. In the PA-28R it's much easier to start it flooded than vapor locked, but my concern has always been whether it's safer to flood the engine with the expectation of starting it than to simply wait for the engine to cool. The latter isn't practically useful, but neither is a fireball or a damaged engine component. -c Back to top Display posts from previous: All Posts1 Day7 Days2 Weeks1 Month3 Months6 Months1 Year Oldest FirstNewest First         AirTalk.org Forum Index -> Aviation (Students) All times are GMT Page 1 of 1   Jump to: Select a forum Aviation----------------alt.aviationAviation safety EnhancementPlanes, gliders and flying in AustraliaAviation et pilotage (Français)rec.aviationAviation (Aerobatics)Hot air, gas balloons and airshipsHang-gliding, paragliding, foot-launched flightAircraft Design & BuildingInstrument Flight RulesAviation (Classifieds)Military AircraftNaval AviationAviation (Miscellaneous Topics)Owning AirplanesAviators (General Discussions)Aviation related productsAircraft RestorationHelicopters and rotary wing aircraftsFlight SimulationSailplanesAviation (Students)Light aircraftFlying related activities in the UK Airports----------------alt.airportsEdinburgh Airport Glasgow Airport Humberside Airport Luton Airport Aberdeen Airport Glasgow Prestwick Airport  You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2006 phpBB Group SEO toolkit © 2004-2006 webmedic.