AirTalk.org Aviation discussions newsgroups   Archives   FAQ   Search   Memberlist   Usergroups   Register   Profile   Log in to check your private messages   Log in  KLN94 Question Goto page 1, 2  Next          AirTalk.org Forum Index -> Instrument Flight Rules View previous topic :: View next topic   Author Message kevmor Guest Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2007 1:59 am    Post subject: KLN94 Question I'm learning to use the KLN94 IFR GPS and was wondering about using the ALT button to set the current altimeter setting. I can see why it would use this for VNAV, but is it required to set it for normal non- precision approaches? I think the only thing I've read in the manual so far was it helps to get the RAIM check done faster or something like that. Back to top kevmor Guest Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2007 2:50 am    Post subject: Re: KLN94 Question Also, what is the difference between approaches such as: RNAV (GPS) Y RWY 20 RNAV (GPS) Z RWY 20 Sometimes they look identical I've noticed, is the Y and Z designation similar to the A in VOR-A, etc? On Apr 17, 1:59 pm, kevmor <kev...@gmail.com> wrote: Quote: I'm learning to use the KLN94 IFR GPS and was wondering about using the ALT button to set the current altimeter setting. I can see why it would use this for VNAV, but is it required to set it for normal non- precision approaches? I think the only thing I've read in the manual so far was it helps to get the RAIM check done faster or something like that. Back to top Bob Gardner Guest Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2007 3:33 am    Post subject: Re: KLN94 Question "kevmor" <kevmor (AT) gmail (DOT) com> wrote in message news:1176846615.308671.55780 (AT) q75g2000hsh (DOT) googlegroups.com... Quote: Also, what is the difference between approaches such as: RNAV (GPS) Y RWY 20 RNAV (GPS) Z RWY 20 Sometimes they look identical I've noticed, is the Y and Z designation similar to the A in VOR-A, etc? On Apr 17, 1:59 pm, kevmor <kev...@gmail.com> wrote: I'm learning to use the KLN94 IFR GPS and was wondering about using the ALT button to set the current altimeter setting. I can see why it would use this for VNAV, but is it required to set it for normal non- precision approaches? I think the only thing I've read in the manual so far was it helps to get the RAIM check done faster or something like that. From the AIM, 5-4-5(a)(3): (d) The naming of multiple approaches of the same type to the same runway is also changing. Multiple approaches with the same guidance will be annotated with an alphabetical suffix beginning at the end of the alphabet and working backwards for subsequent procedures (e.g., ILS Z RWY 28, ILS Y RWY 28, etc.). The existing annotations such as ILS 2 RWY 28 or Silver ILS RWY 28 will be phased out and replaced with the new designation. The Cat II and Cat III designations are used to differentiate between multiple ILSs to the same runway unless there are multiples of the same type. Bob Gardner Back to top Bill Guest Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2007 6:11 am    Post subject: Re: KLN94 Question The box checks gps altitude vs the encoder altitude for sanity. All the King boxes do this. So you will probably have to enter the altimeter setting to get the approach to go active. The 94 is a very nice box; many features of the 430s at a lower price. Includes ILS approach guidance. To bad there's no way to drop it in a 90B slot! Bill Hale BPPP instructor On Apr 17, 2:59 pm, kevmor <kev...@gmail.com> wrote: Quote: I'm learning to use the KLN94 IFR GPS and was wondering about using the ALT button to set the current altimeter setting. I can see why it would use this for VNAV, but is it required to set it for normal non- precision approaches? I think the only thing I've read in the manual so far was it helps to get the RAIM check done faster or something like that. Back to top Don Poitras Guest Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2007 10:48 am    Post subject: Re: KLN94 Question Bill <33bonanza (AT) gmail (DOT) com> wrote: Quote: The box checks gps altitude vs the encoder altitude for sanity. All the King boxes do this. So you will probably have to enter the altimeter setting to get the approach to go active. Also, from the manual: Altitude may be provided to the KLN 94 from an encoding altimeter or blind encoder. Altitude is used as an aid in position determination when not enough satellites are in view. and: A valid position may be determined using as few as four satellites alone or three satellites with a valid electronic altitude input. Quote: The 94 is a very nice box; many features of the 430s at a lower price. Includes ILS approach guidance. To bad there's no way to drop it in a 90B slot! Bill Hale BPPP instructor Quote: On Apr 17, 2:59 pm, kevmor <kev...@gmail.com> wrote: I'm learning to use the KLN94 IFR GPS and was wondering about using the ALT button to set the current altimeter setting. I can see why it would use this for VNAV, but is it required to set it for normal non- precision approaches? I think the only thing I've read in the manual so far was it helps to get the RAIM check done faster or something like that. -- Don Poitras Back to top Ross Guest Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2007 10:05 pm    Post subject: Re: KLN94 Question Bill wrote: Quote: The box checks gps altitude vs the encoder altitude for sanity. All the King boxes do this. So you will probably have to enter the altimeter setting to get the approach to go active. The 94 is a very nice box; many features of the 430s at a lower price. Includes ILS approach guidance. To bad there's no way to drop it in a 90B slot! Bill Hale BPPP instructor On Apr 17, 2:59 pm, kevmor <kev...@gmail.com> wrote: I'm learning to use the KLN94 IFR GPS and was wondering about using the ALT button to set the current altimeter setting. I can see why it would use this for VNAV, but is it required to set it for normal non- precision approaches? I think the only thing I've read in the manual so far was it helps to get the RAIM check done faster or something like that. I thought the 90B would drop in to the 89B and the 94 would do the same. Bummer.... -- Regards, Ross C-172F 180HP KSWI Back to top kevmor Guest Posted: Fri Apr 20, 2007 12:49 am    Post subject: Re: KLN94 Question I flew today to try out some more approaches with the KLN94 and the entire time I was getting "Altitude Fail" in the MSG area, which the manual says will display "When the altitude input becomes invalid during operation". If I remember correctly, I think I saw when turning it on or setting the ALT that it wasn't receiving any altitude input, so I pushed ALT and set the altimeter to the current setting. It kept redisplaying though... am I doing something wrong, or is it getting a bad input possibly? On Apr 18, 3:48 am, poit...@pobox.com (Don Poitras) wrote: Quote: Bill <33bona...@gmail.com> wrote: The box checks gps altitude vs the encoder altitude for sanity. All the King boxes do this. So you will probably have to enter the altimeter setting to get the approach to go active. Also, from the manual: Altitude may be provided to the KLN 94 from an encoding altimeter or blind encoder. Altitude is used as an aid in position determination when not enough satellites are in view. and: A valid position may be determined using as few as four satellites alone or three satellites with a valid electronic altitude input. The 94 is a very nice box; many features of the 430s at a lower price. Includes ILS approach guidance. To bad there's no way to drop it in a 90B slot! Bill Hale BPPP instructor On Apr 17, 2:59 pm, kevmor <kev...@gmail.com> wrote: I'm learning to use the KLN94 IFR GPS and was wondering about using the ALT button to set the current altimeter setting. I can see why it would use this for VNAV, but is it required to set it for normal non- precision approaches? I think the only thing I've read in the manual so far was it helps to get the RAIM check done faster or something like that. -- Don Poitras Back to top Mark Hansen Guest Posted: Fri Apr 20, 2007 1:32 am    Post subject: Re: KLN94 Question On 04/19/07 12:49, kevmor wrote: Quote: I flew today to try out some more approaches with the KLN94 and the entire time I was getting "Altitude Fail" in the MSG area, which the manual says will display "When the altitude input becomes invalid during operation". If I remember correctly, I think I saw when turning it on or setting the ALT that it wasn't receiving any altitude input, so I pushed ALT and set the altimeter to the current setting. It kept redisplaying though... am I doing something wrong, or is it getting a bad input possibly? I was told by one of the club CFIs that you need to have your transponder set to Mode C for this feature to work. So, while on the ground prior get turning on the transponder (to mode-C), I get the same thing. Once I've turned on the mode-c, I no longer get the message. Is it possible the message was originally received while you were on the ground (before you turned on the mode-c) and you never cleared the message? -- Mark Hansen, PP-ASEL, Instrument Airplane, USUA Ultralight Pilot Cal Aggie Flying Farmers Sacramento, CA Back to top Allen Guest Posted: Fri Apr 20, 2007 1:35 am    Post subject: Re: KLN94 Question "kevmor" <kevmor (AT) gmail (DOT) com> wrote in message news:1177012190.187371.170620 (AT) y5g2000hsa (DOT) googlegroups.com... Quote: I flew today to try out some more approaches with the KLN94 and the entire time I was getting "Altitude Fail" in the MSG area, which the manual says will display "When the altitude input becomes invalid during operation". If I remember correctly, I think I saw when turning it on or setting the ALT that it wasn't receiving any altitude input, so I pushed ALT and set the altimeter to the current setting. It kept redisplaying though... am I doing something wrong, or is it getting a bad input possibly? You do have either an encoding altimeter or blind encoder and it is hooked up to the GPS and is functioning properly? You have your transponder turned to ALT and not just to on? If the GPS is not hooked up to the encoder there should be a way in the setup to tell it there is no encoder connected. I am not familiar with the KLN94 but these things are pretty common to all panel mount GPS. Back to top kevmor Guest Posted: Fri Apr 20, 2007 1:49 am    Post subject: Re: KLN94 Question I pressed MSG several times, and it kept appearing with other notifications such as to remember to use OBS. I'm almost positive I had it on Mode C, but I'll have to investigate these next time...Thanks for the help. On Apr 19, 1:32 pm, Mark Hansen <m...@NOSPAMwinfirst.com> wrote: Quote: Once I've turned on the mode-c, I no longer get the message. Is it possible the message was originally received while you were on the ground (before you turned on the mode-c) and you never cleared the message? -- Mark Hansen, PP-ASEL, Instrument Airplane, USUA Ultralight Pilot Cal Aggie Flying Farmers Sacramento, CA Back to top Bill Guest Posted: Fri Apr 20, 2007 2:06 am    Post subject: Re: KLN94 Question On Apr 19, 2:35 pm, "Allen" <ha_smit...@hotmail.com> wrote: Quote: "kevmor" <kev...@gmail.com> wrote in message news:1177012190.187371.170620 (AT) y5g2000hsa (DOT) googlegroups.com... I flew today to try out some more approaches with the KLN94 and the entire time I was getting "Altitude Fail" in the MSG area, which the manual says will display "When the altitude input becomes invalid during operation". If I remember correctly, I think I saw when turning it on or setting the ALT that it wasn't receiving any altitude input, so I pushed ALT and set the altimeter to the current setting. It kept redisplaying though... am I doing something wrong, or is it getting a bad input possibly? You do have either an encoding altimeter or blind encoder and it is hooked up to the GPS and is functioning properly? You have your transponder turned to ALT and not just to on? If the GPS is not hooked up to the encoder there should be a way in the setup to tell it there is no encoder connected. I am not familiar with the KLN94 but these things are pretty common to all panel mount GPS. The encoder lines are a big party line. They are pulled high by the transponder usually and the altimeter pulls them low to signify a "1". The GPS just monitors the lines--or should. On 90B installations, you are ordered to put some diodes in the lines so that if the 90B is turned off it won't pull the lines low and flummox the transponder-encoder connection. Might also be that the encoder only gets power if the transponder is in ALT position; haven't heard of that one. I know that on Narcos, the encoder only got strobed in mode C--at least on really old models. So check your plane: You should be able to turn off the GPS and still squak the correct altitude; you should be able to turn the transponder off and still indicate the correct altitude on the GPS. Bill Hale Back to top Mark Hansen Guest Posted: Fri Apr 20, 2007 2:25 am    Post subject: Re: KLN94 Question On 04/19/07 13:49, kevmor wrote: Quote: I pressed MSG several times, and it kept appearing with other notifications such as to remember to use OBS. I'm almost positive I had it on Mode C, but I'll have to investigate these next time...Thanks for the help. Was this one of the airplanes at Cal Aggie? Which one? -- Mark Hansen, PP-ASEL, Instrument Airplane, USUA Ultralight Pilot Cal Aggie Flying Farmers Sacramento, CA Back to top Allen Guest Posted: Fri Apr 20, 2007 2:48 am    Post subject: Re: KLN94 Question "Bill" <33bonanza (AT) gmail (DOT) com> wrote in message news:1177016817.839987.27480 (AT) y80g2000hsf (DOT) googlegroups.com... Quote: On Apr 19, 2:35 pm, "Allen" <ha_smit...@hotmail.com> wrote: "kevmor" <kev...@gmail.com> wrote in message news:1177012190.187371.170620 (AT) y5g2000hsa (DOT) googlegroups.com... I flew today to try out some more approaches with the KLN94 and the entire time I was getting "Altitude Fail" in the MSG area, which the manual says will display "When the altitude input becomes invalid during operation". If I remember correctly, I think I saw when turning it on or setting the ALT that it wasn't receiving any altitude input, so I pushed ALT and set the altimeter to the current setting. It kept redisplaying though... am I doing something wrong, or is it getting a bad input possibly? You do have either an encoding altimeter or blind encoder and it is hooked up to the GPS and is functioning properly? You have your transponder turned to ALT and not just to on? If the GPS is not hooked up to the encoder there should be a way in the setup to tell it there is no encoder connected. I am not familiar with the KLN94 but these things are pretty common to all panel mount GPS. The encoder lines are a big party line. They are pulled high by the transponder usually and the altimeter pulls them low to signify a "1". The GPS just monitors the lines--or should. On 90B installations, you are ordered to put some diodes in the lines so that if the 90B is turned off it won't pull the lines low and flummox the transponder-encoder connection. Might also be that the encoder only gets power if the transponder is in ALT position; haven't heard of that one. I know that on Narcos, the encoder only got strobed in mode C--at least on really old models. So check your plane: You should be able to turn off the GPS and still squak the correct altitude; you should be able to turn the transponder off and still indicate the correct altitude on the GPS. Bill Hale I have flown several different aircraft that had GPS that would complain about no altitude if the transponder wasn't squawking ALT. Back to top Ross Guest Posted: Fri Apr 20, 2007 2:48 am    Post subject: Re: KLN94 Question Mark Hansen wrote: Quote: On 04/19/07 12:49, kevmor wrote: I flew today to try out some more approaches with the KLN94 and the entire time I was getting "Altitude Fail" in the MSG area, which the manual says will display "When the altitude input becomes invalid during operation". If I remember correctly, I think I saw when turning it on or setting the ALT that it wasn't receiving any altitude input, so I pushed ALT and set the altimeter to the current setting. It kept redisplaying though... am I doing something wrong, or is it getting a bad input possibly? I was told by one of the club CFIs that you need to have your transponder set to Mode C for this feature to work. So, while on the ground prior get turning on the transponder (to mode-C), I get the same thing. Once I've turned on the mode-c, I no longer get the message. Is it possible the message was originally received while you were on the ground (before you turned on the mode-c) and you never cleared the message? On my KLN 89B I will get that message until the blind encoder is warmed up and outputting data. It can take up to 6 or 7 minutes. -- Regards, Ross C-172F 180HP KSWI Back to top kevmor Guest Posted: Fri Apr 20, 2007 2:51 am    Post subject: Re: KLN94 Question Yeah, 4870G. I flew it a couple weeks earlier and didn't have this problem, at least I don't think, but that was the first time I was introduced to this GPS with a CFI. I must have not had the mode switch all the way on ALT, I could've sworn I did though. On Apr 19, 2:25 pm, Mark Hansen <m...@NOSPAMwinfirst.com> wrote: Quote: On 04/19/07 13:49, kevmor wrote: I pressed MSG several times, and it kept appearing with other notifications such as to remember to use OBS. I'm almost positive I had it on Mode C, but I'll have to investigate these next time...Thanks for the help. Was this one of the airplanes at Cal Aggie? Which one? -- Mark Hansen, PP-ASEL, Instrument Airplane, USUA Ultralight Pilot Cal Aggie Flying Farmers Sacramento, CA Back to top Display posts from previous: All Posts1 Day7 Days2 Weeks1 Month3 Months6 Months1 Year Oldest FirstNewest First         AirTalk.org Forum Index -> Instrument Flight Rules All times are GMT Goto page 1, 2  Next Page 1 of 2   Jump to: Select a forum Aviation----------------alt.aviationAviation safety EnhancementPlanes, gliders and flying in AustraliaAviation et pilotage (Français)rec.aviationAviation (Aerobatics)Hot air, gas balloons and airshipsHang-gliding, paragliding, foot-launched flightAircraft Design & BuildingInstrument Flight RulesAviation (Classifieds)Military AircraftNaval AviationAviation (Miscellaneous Topics)Owning AirplanesAviators (General Discussions)Aviation related productsAircraft RestorationHelicopters and rotary wing aircraftsFlight SimulationSailplanesAviation (Students)Light aircraftFlying related activities in the UK Airports----------------alt.airportsEdinburgh Airport Glasgow Airport Humberside Airport Luton Airport Aberdeen Airport Glasgow Prestwick Airport  You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2006 phpBB Group SEO toolkit © 2004-2006 webmedic.