AirTalk.org Aviation discussions newsgroups   Archives   FAQ   Search   Memberlist   Usergroups   Register   Profile   Log in to check your private messages   Log in  Naval Aviator Slots- HELP!! Goto page 1, 2  Next          AirTalk.org Forum Index -> Naval Aviation View previous topic :: View next topic   Author Message Guest Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2007 4:52 am    Post subject: Naval Aviator Slots- HELP!! Any advice given on this subject is much appreciated!! Just an hour and a half ago we received the news that my fiance was not on the unofficial list of names of those students who had received the Pilot and NFO slots. He attends the United States Merchant Marine Academy in Kings Point, New York which is one of the federal service academies. He has worked his butt of to get great scores on all the tests for the navy aviator slots. Unfortunately we receievd the bad news today. He's trying to get over his disappointment but this is really getting to him because this has been his dream since he was a little boy at one of the Aircraft shows. Upon graduating this school in June he will be a commissioned officer in the Naval Reserve however I know he will still long to be a naval pilot. He has a great gpa, was the Company Fitness Officer so he passed all the physical test with no problem, went on pilot internships, and scored 7/9 on the avaiation test, which i hear is suppose to be really well. Is there any hope of getting in from this point on? Back to top qui si parla Campagnolo Guest Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2007 5:32 am    Post subject: Re: Naval Aviator Slots- HELP!! On Apr 17, 4:52 pm, hillary.collandra.2...@usmma.edu wrote: Quote: Any advice given on this subject is much appreciated!! Just an hour and a half ago we received the news that my fiance was not on the unofficial list of names of those students who had received the Pilot and NFO slots. He attends the United States Merchant Marine Academy in Kings Point, New York which is one of the federal service academies. He has worked his butt of to get great scores on all the tests for the navy aviator slots. Unfortunately we receievd the bad news today. He's trying to get over his disappointment but this is really getting to him because this has been his dream since he was a little boy at one of the Aircraft shows. Upon graduating this school in June he will be a commissioned officer in the Naval Reserve however I know he will still long to be a naval pilot. He has a great gpa, was the Company Fitness Officer so he passed all the physical test with no problem, went on pilot internships, and scored 7/9 on the avaiation test, which i hear is suppose to be really well. Is there any hope of getting in from this point on? Does he have a commitment from the MMA? If not, maybe quit, finish college and re-apply for AOCS(?) Not a lot of people getting ouit these days w./o the airlines hiring... Back to top Bill Baker Guest Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2007 6:11 am    Post subject: Re: Naval Aviator Slots- HELP!! On 2007-04-17 18:31:15 -0700, John <mach1 (AT) carolina (DOT) rr.com> said: Quote: I honestly have never heard of any aviators that came this route, even when I was in the NAVAIR Training Command in the 70's and 80's when the need for pilots was greater than now. Not that it does not happen, just have not known anyone. Why would someone even go the Merchant Marine route in the first place if they were dreaming of a career as a naval aviator? The Navy looks down their collective nose at the merchant marine sailors, always have. He would probably had a better shot for a pilot slot by getting his BS in aeronautical engineering at someplace like Purdue via the NROTC route. ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Unrestricted-Secure Usenet News==---- http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups ----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =---- Back to top John Guest Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2007 6:11 am    Post subject: Re: Naval Aviator Slots- HELP!! On 17 Apr 2007 16:52:40 -0700, hillary.collandra.2010 (AT) usmma (DOT) edu wrote: Quote: Any advice given on this subject is much appreciated!! suppose to be really well. Is there any hope of getting in from this point on? What obligation will he have after graduation from the MMA and how does that affect his ability to get an aviation slot (what guidance does he have from the school on this?)? I honestly have never heard of any aviators that came this route, even when I was in the NAVAIR Training Command in the 70's and 80's when the need for pilots was greater than now. Not that it does not happen, just have not known anyone. At this moment, I would think that with most airlines not hiring there is a high retention rate. Combined with a lot of squadrons getting decommissioned, that does not leave a lot of slots for new guys. My suspicion is that the few slots are being taken by more traditional sources (Naval Academy, ROTC and AOCS). I agree with another poster - if obligation to the merchant marine is not an issue, get down to the Navy Recruiting Office and try to get into the AOCS program (this is for folks who did not go to USNA or ROTC and want to get into aviation - ever watch the movie "An Officer and a Gentleman"?). This is your best bet at this point and the program a lot of us on this group went through, or it's cousin, the AVROC program. AOCS is for those who have graduated from college, the AVROC program no longer exists but it allowed one to go to Pensacola for 8 weeks between Jr and Sr years, then complete the remaining 8 weeks after graduation. This was what I did in 72 and 73. There used to be a program for the folks from the USNA and ROTC who already were commissioned and I imagine that there still is. I've been retired for 10 years now and have not kept up. Just make sure you are talking to an Officer Programs Recruiter. PS: AOCS = Aviation Officer Candidate AVROC - Aviation Reserve Officer Candidate John Alger USN(ret) 1972-1997 // 1310,1320 TA-4J, A-7E, EC-130Q, P-3B Back to top John Carrier Guest Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2007 5:49 pm    Post subject: Re: Naval Aviator Slots- HELP!! "Bill Baker" <wabobo3 (AT) yahoo (DOT) com> wrote in message news:1176870282_4689@news-west.n... Quote: On 2007-04-17 18:31:15 -0700, John <mach1 (AT) carolina (DOT) rr.com> said: I honestly have never heard of any aviators that came this route, even when I was in the NAVAIR Training Command in the 70's and 80's when the need for pilots was greater than now. Not that it does not happen, just have not known anyone. We have one in strike training right now. Female, solid student, MMA grad. Quote: Why would someone even go the Merchant Marine route in the first place if they were dreaming of a career as a naval aviator? The Navy looks down their collective nose at the merchant marine sailors, always have. He would probably had a better shot for a pilot slot by getting his BS in aeronautical engineering at someplace like Purdue via the NROTC route. Perhaps that was the appointment offered? It varies year to year, but competition for an appointment at one of the service academies is fierce. So, you may go for USNA (USMA, USAFA, whatever) and your congressman says, "Sorry, can't make it work. How about MMA?" To the original post. How did our MMA guy do on the flight physical? When I did mine (back when Moby Dick was a minnow) they culled the USNA grads by making the physical (particularly the eye exam) a high hurdle. OTOH, I've seen students lately who showed up wearing glasses to get to 20/20 corrected. R / John Back to top Michael Wise Guest Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2007 7:21 pm    Post subject: Re: Naval Aviator Slots- HELP!! In article <hbsa23pd3ajeh5t2crs54eht2oo8b988qj (AT) 4ax (DOT) com>, John <mach1 (AT) carolina (DOT) rr.com> wrote: Quote: Any advice given on this subject is much appreciated!! suppose to be really well. Is there any hope of getting in from this point on? What obligation will he have after graduation from the MMA and how does that affect his ability to get an aviation slot (what guidance does he have from the school on this?)? I honestly have never heard of any aviators that came this route, even when I was in the NAVAIR Training Command in the 70's and 80's when the need for pilots was greater than now. Not that it does not happen, just have not known anyone. My step-brother became a naval aviator (HSL/SH-60B) through Kings Point route in the late 80's. --Mike Back to top W. D. Allen Guest Posted: Thu Apr 19, 2007 12:26 am    Post subject: Re: Naval Aviator Slots- HELP!! Keep applying every year and go see the Ensign detailer at Main Navy in D. C. Back to top W. D. Allen Guest Posted: Fri Apr 20, 2007 12:45 am    Post subject: Re: Naval Aviator Slots- HELP!! "...better shot for a pilot slot by getting his BS in aeronautical engineering...." An engineering degree would have no bearing on selection for flight training. - From an old, no longer bold, naval aviator end Back to top Ed Rasimus Guest Posted: Fri Apr 20, 2007 1:07 am    Post subject: Re: Naval Aviator Slots- HELP!! On Thu, 19 Apr 2007 12:45:34 -0700, "W. D. Allen" <ballensr (AT) roadrunner (DOT) com> wrote: Quote: "...better shot for a pilot slot by getting his BS in aeronautical engineering...." An engineering degree would have no bearing on selection for flight training. - From an old, no longer bold, naval aviator end One can be both old and bold. And, once a tactical aviator, always a tac aviator. It's sort of like that Marine thing---once, then always. (With a couple of highly recognized exceptions...) Ed Rasimus Fighter Pilot (USAF-Ret) "When Thunder Rolled" www.thunderchief.org www.thundertales.blogspot.com Back to top Bill Baker Guest Posted: Fri Apr 20, 2007 1:26 am    Post subject: Re: Naval Aviator Slots- HELP!! On 2007-04-19 12:45:34 -0700, "W. D. Allen" <ballensr (AT) roadrunner (DOT) com> said: Quote: "...better shot for a pilot slot by getting his BS in aeronautical engineering...." An engineering degree would have no bearing on selection for flight training. In peacetime, when there are few flight school slots available and the services are being really picky, is that strictly true? I know what you're saying, that the degree field of a candidates BA/BS is not a major criteria for selection. But when the intake evaluators are choosing among a large number of really good candidates, at some point wouldn't they start looking down the checklist and start considering things like what flavor of degree you hold? ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Unrestricted-Secure Usenet News==---- http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups ----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =---- Back to top John Guest Posted: Fri Apr 20, 2007 2:35 am    Post subject: Re: Naval Aviator Slots- HELP!! On Thu, 19 Apr 2007 13:26:44 -0700, Bill Baker <wabobo3 (AT) yahoo (DOT) com> wrote: Quote: An engineering degree would have no bearing on selection for flight training. In peacetime, when there are few flight school slots available and the services are being really picky, is that strictly true? Actually it is true. Degree does not seem to matter. Back in the 80's when I was working on a masters, I was also a contract simulator instructor at my old training base (Chase) and did an analysis for my statistics class of degrees vs completions. What I found was that there was absolutley no correlation between the type of degree and the succsess (or failure) of the prospective naval aviator. This was also a time when there was a relative surplus of pilots, so they could be choosy. What I found was that while there was an expectedly high percentage of "hard science" degrees, the recruiters did not seem to care - there appreared to be something more in the prospects background that got them selected. However, that was not the focus of my study and I did not have data to go in that direction. John Alger USN(ret) 1972-1997 // 1310,1320 TA-4J, A-7E, EC-130Q, P-3B Back to top Boomerang Guest Posted: Fri Apr 20, 2007 3:25 am    Post subject: Re: Naval Aviator Slots- HELP!! As a career Naval Aviator with experience, albeit dated, in both the Training Command and OPNAV, I've watched this thread spin out with some interest. As the Director of Research at the National Defense University in one of my prior incarnations, I was privy to a study substantiating your remarks. When launched on a quest to find the "Prime Indicator of Success" - the Holy Grail of the Nugget Watchers - the study I am most familiar with came up with the revolutionary but counterintuitive conclusion that it was not being an Eagle Scout or a BS in AE or the kind of a baby that quit nursing every time an airplane flew over but whether or not the candidate - get this - had a paper route. Back to top Diamond Jim Guest Posted: Fri Apr 20, 2007 3:51 am    Post subject: Re: Naval Aviator Slots- HELP!! "John Carrier" <jxc2 (AT) comcast (DOT) net> wrote in message news:qaCdnbKJH5C8ibvbnZ2dnUVZ_jadnZ2d (AT) comcast (DOT) com... Quote: "Bill Baker" <wabobo3 (AT) yahoo (DOT) com> wrote in message news:1176870282_4689@news-west.n... On 2007-04-17 18:31:15 -0700, John <mach1 (AT) carolina (DOT) rr.com> said: I honestly have never heard of any aviators that came this route, even when I was in the NAVAIR Training Command in the 70's and 80's when the need for pilots was greater than now. Not that it does not happen, just have not known anyone. We have one in strike training right now. Female, solid student, MMA grad. Why would someone even go the Merchant Marine route in the first place if they were dreaming of a career as a naval aviator? The Navy looks down their collective nose at the merchant marine sailors, always have. He would probably had a better shot for a pilot slot by getting his BS in aeronautical engineering at someplace like Purdue via the NROTC route. Perhaps that was the appointment offered? It varies year to year, but competition for an appointment at one of the service academies is fierce. So, you may go for USNA (USMA, USAFA, whatever) and your congressman says, "Sorry, can't make it work. How about MMA?" To the original post. How did our MMA guy do on the flight physical? When I did mine (back when Moby Dick was a minnow) they culled the USNA grads by making the physical (particularly the eye exam) a high hurdle. OTOH, I've seen students lately who showed up wearing glasses to get to 20/20 corrected. R / John Ah yes..... the old eye test trick. If you had too many with obviously better than 20-20 vision, the "color perception" test was brought into play. But you can't blame the NAVY they spent all that money teaching naval engineering, strategy and tactics just so everyone that wanted to could zooming around the sky. The same thing often happened to NAVCAD's/MARCAD's. The programs were often used as a recruiting tool to get highly qualified people. Back to top Mike Kanze Guest Posted: Fri Apr 20, 2007 4:12 am    Post subject: Re: Naval Aviator Slots- HELP!! ....And since most paper routes are today the province of adults above the flight training cut-off age, many of whom in my neck of the woods are also recent immigrants, I wonder what the "prime indicator of success" might now be? -- Mike Kanze (teenage newspaper carrier for the Alameda Times-Star) "The secret of charm is bullshit." - Tyrone Power "Boomerang" <VQplank (AT) columbus (DOT) rr.com> wrote in message news:4627ec1a$0$1407$4c368faf (AT) roadrunner (DOT) com... As a career Naval Aviator with experience, albeit dated, in both the Training Command and OPNAV, I've watched this thread spin out with some interest. As the Director of Research at the National Defense University in one of my prior incarnations, I was privy to a study substantiating your remarks. When launched on a quest to find the "Prime Indicator of Success" - the Holy Grail of the Nugget Watchers - the study I am most familiar with came up with the revolutionary but counterintuitive conclusion that it was not being an Eagle Scout or a BS in AE or the kind of a baby that quit nursing every time an airplane flew over but whether or not the candidate - get this - had a paper route. Back to top J.McEachen Guest Posted: Sat Apr 21, 2007 6:11 am    Post subject: Re: Naval Aviator Slots- HELP!! In pre-flight 1959 (OI-23-59) a pt instructor on the trampoline was a sun-bleached blonde, older man (60's?) in terrific shape who told us that he had kept records for upward of 10 years, and he found that performance on the trampoline was a good predictor of success in the training command. Some may remember the two seaplane hangars used as gyms, the western-most one had the trampolines in the seaward side, the eastern one was the gym. Who could forget running "figure-8's" around those two hangars with Antietam parked down the seawall. Student intake seemed to be about 2,000/year with OI classes weekly, and AOC classes alternating weekly with MARCAD/NAVCAD classes - the latter being a quick way to increase (or decrease) input. But it must be remembered that nugget NA's in VP/VW/VR/VAH/ZP would serve as navigators or bombardiers, there being no NFO programs yet. In Heavy Attack A-3's, the officially (Douglas) labeled "bombardier-assistant pilot" could be a nugget NA, an NAO(B) (both trained by the RAG,) or an enlisted Aircrewman bombardier also trained by the RAG in Sanford or Whidbey. The first "true" NAO/NFO slot was the "Phantom Pherret" of the F4H-2/F-4B Phantom II, also RAG trained (first combat deployment of the Phantom was VF-74 Bedevilers with CAG-8 on Forrestal, Med cruise departing 8/62; replacing VF-102 F4D Skyrays.) J. McEachen VAH-5 Boomerang wrote: Quote: As a career Naval Aviator with experience, albeit dated, in both the Training Command and OPNAV, I've watched this thread spin out with some interest. As the Director of Research at the National Defense University in one of my prior incarnations, I was privy to a study substantiating your remarks. When launched on a quest to find the "Prime Indicator of Success" - the Holy Grail of the Nugget Watchers - the study I am most familiar with came up with the revolutionary but counterintuitive conclusion that it was not being an Eagle Scout or a BS in AE or the kind of a baby that quit nursing every time an airplane flew over but whether or not the candidate - get this - had a paper route. 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