AirTalk.org Aviation discussions newsgroups   Archives   FAQ   Search   Memberlist   Usergroups   Register   Profile   Log in to check your private messages   Log in  Question to Mxmanic Goto page 1, 2  Next          AirTalk.org Forum Index -> Aviators (General Discussions) View previous topic :: View next topic   Author Message Snowbird Guest Posted: Fri Apr 13, 2007 6:12 am    Post subject: Question to Mxmanic How does MS flight simulator simulate the symptoms of hypoxia? Back to top Snowbird Guest Posted: Fri Apr 13, 2007 6:12 am    Post subject: Re: Question to Mxmanic "Mxsmanic" wrote ... Quote: No provision is made for simulation of hypoxia of altitude. So MS flight simulator is not realistic then. That's what I wanted to know. Back to top Morgans Guest Posted: Fri Apr 13, 2007 6:12 am    Post subject: Re: Question to Mxmanic "Snowbird" <somebody (AT) somewhere (DOT) com> wrote in message news:eTETh.35359$TB3.13611 (AT) reader1 (DOT) news.saunalahti.fi... Quote: How does MS flight simulator simulate the symptoms of hypoxia? Mercy, don't stimulate conversation with the troll, ... please??? Back to top Mxsmanic Guest Posted: Fri Apr 13, 2007 6:12 am    Post subject: Re: Question to Mxmanic Snowbird writes: Quote: How does MS flight simulator simulate the symptoms of hypoxia? No provision is made for simulation of hypoxia of altitude. If the aircraft is accelerated, the simulator does simulate the visual effects of positive and negative Gs. -- Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail. Back to top Nomen Nescio Guest Posted: Sat Apr 14, 2007 5:20 am    Post subject: Re: Question to Mxmanic -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- From: Mxsmanic <mxsmanic (AT) gmail (DOT) com> Quote: I'm always surprised by posts that simply say "wrong," but don't explain why. That's 'cause nobody with an IQ over 80 gives a shit about explaining ANYTHING to you. A simple answer of "WRONG" will help keep someone who is really trying to learn about flying from giving your bullshit any credibility. I would suggest substituting "IDIOT" for "wrong". It's much more descriptive of you. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: N/A iQCVAwUBRiCIm5MoscYxZNI5AQGVBQP/YQrqiejDScxy3+IA36ho/UQESOU2HrWI 0C2Xyq2WTXbd0By1aEWgRJRcEgv0vqeH1/Zw5XgneNsq05CWPY1CCRNxaV2H11BV kZdw1q1CDpozDbuuFFjh2HC7s2UhgjyD2YF9Ns68yTJpBKz/nxGmoTOZm8IVSoAl d5bDd43d3cs= =2gMp -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- Back to top Dudley Henriques Guest Posted: Sat Apr 14, 2007 6:12 am    Post subject: Re: Question to Mxmanic "Steve Foley" <steve.foley (AT) DELETEatt (DOT) net> wrote in message news:VSWTh.42404$VU4.29908@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net... Quote: "Dudley Henriques" <dhenriques (AT) rcn (DOT) com> wrote in message news:kvidnbZ8weqtpL3bnZ2dnUVZ_jqdnZ2d (AT) rcn (DOT) net... "ManhattanMan" <umama (AT) binlaidon (DOT) com> wrote in message news:xFWTh.15922$2q7.13813 (AT) newsfe19 (DOT) lga... Dudley Henriques wrote: "ManhattanMan" <umama (AT) binlaidon (DOT) com> wrote in message news:nrSTh.446883$BK1.357186 (AT) newsfe13 (DOT) lga... Steve Foley wrote: "karl gruber" <removeskywagon (AT) gmail (DOT) com> wrote in message news:evo4eq$u1$1 (AT) aioe (DOT) org... Half a bottle of Jack Daniel's Half full or half empty? from an engineering standpoint, the bottle wasn't designed correctly........... :) I was JUST about to say this!!! ) Dudley Henriques GOTCHA!! d:->)) The way this one got twisted around down at the Naval Test Pilot School was as follows; Procurement Office ; "This bottle is half empty" Maintainence Office ; " This bottle is half full" Flight Test Engineering Office : "Yo Jack....call those idiots over at Procurement and tell them this damn bottle is twice as big as it has to be " Dudley Henriques Maintenance Shack: It's empty now. More likely....."those damn pilots will drink anything!!!" ) Dudley Henriques Back to top A Guy Called Tyketto Guest Posted: Sat Apr 14, 2007 6:12 am    Post subject: Re: Question to Mxmanic -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 In rec.aviation.piloting Mxsmanic <mxsmanic (AT) gmail (DOT) com> wrote: Quote: Gary writes: Couldn't be more wrong. In real life, you most certainly know when you succeed in avoiding wake turbulence. No, you don't. You don't know if you avoided it, or if it simply wasn't there to begin with. In any case, avoidance is the only safe procedure. Trying to fly in wake turbulence isn't a good idea. And yet once again, you're a contradictory in terms. You say you strive for realism in your sim and say something like the above, but a few posts ago, you state: "In real life, you simply take care to avoid wake turbulence; in the sim, you can take the same precautions if you wish, but you don't have to. So basically, you can't even make up your mind on what you want to do period. You need help, Anthony. REAL WORLD help. BL. - -- Brad Littlejohn | Email: tyketto (AT) sbcglobal (DOT) net Unix Systems Administrator, | tyketto (AT) ozemail (DOT) com.au Web + NewsMaster, BOFH.. Smeghead! | http://www.wizard.com/~tyketto PGP: 1024D/E319F0BF 6980 AAD6 7329 E9E6 D569 F620 C819 199A E319 F0BF -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFGIGoHyBkZmuMZ8L8RAs8GAJ4kMVv2A8HR27qkSmineBDs3TUNTQCfQibx wjyifAHmZlUbXb6EDXgBsJM= =Cq4m -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- Back to top DR Guest Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2007 6:12 am    Post subject: Re: Question to Mxmanic Mxsmanic wrote: Quote: Judah writes: What is the wingspan of the aircraft? The wingspan shouldn't matter. Altimeters make this less likely than you might believe. Perhaps you are the one that doesn't realize something. As you admit below, you didn't put much thought into your determination. To convince me, I need an explanation of why wakes descend universally except by some magic exception when someone is doing a 360-degree turn. Perhaps you are not considering all the causes of turbulence that follow an aircraft (in it's wake)? Cheers MarkC Back to top Mxsmanic Guest Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2007 6:12 am    Post subject: Re: Question to Mxmanic jimp (AT) specsol (DOT) spam.sux.com writes: Quote: You do a 360 and run into a bump when, and only when, you complete the 360. Or you run into bumps but only notice the one that you hit when you complete the 360. -- Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail. Back to top Mxsmanic Guest Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2007 6:12 am    Post subject: Re: Question to Mxmanic DR writes: Quote: Perhaps you are not considering all the causes of turbulence that follow an aircraft (in it's wake)? Perhaps others are not considering all the causes of turbulence besides aircraft wakes. -- Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail. Back to top Guest Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2007 6:12 am    Post subject: Re: Question to Mxmanic In rec.aviation.piloting Mxsmanic <mxsmanic (AT) gmail (DOT) com> wrote: Quote: DR writes: Perhaps you are not considering all the causes of turbulence that follow an aircraft (in it's wake)? Perhaps others are not considering all the causes of turbulence besides aircraft wakes. You do a 360 and run into a bump when, and only when, you complete the 360. Invisible UFO's crossing at your exact starting point? -- Jim Pennino Remove .spam.sux to reply. Back to top DR Guest Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2007 6:12 am    Post subject: Re: Question to Mxmanic Rip wrote: Quote: Judah, one of his problems is that he fixates on insufficient information, and then gets frustrated when his assumptions are incorrect. Obviously, MX can only concieve of downwash generated by the wings as they create lift. Apparently, he can't concieve of the UPWASH created by the tail surfaces pushing DOWN, nor the potential for interaction between the two, or other turbulence that may be created in the air mass merely because a large object is plowing through it at a high rate of speed. Rip BINGO! Cheers MarkC Back to top Maxwell Guest Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2007 6:13 am    Post subject: Re: Question to Mxmanic "Kev" <kdarling (AT) basit (DOT) com> wrote in message news:1176776777.752723.28750 (AT) b75g2000hsg (DOT) googlegroups.com... Quote: On Apr 16, 3:59 pm, Tom L. <glider_...@ya.hoo.com> wrote: The big question is "why does the wake turbulence descend?" Is the air volume inside the vortices denser than surrounding air? Found it, Tom. Ref: http://www.airpower.maxwell.af.mil/airchronicles/aureview/1971/jul-aug/carten.html "Cruise altitude vortices usually level off at about 1000 feet below the altitude of the aircraft as their density comes into equilibrium with that of the surrounding air. Decay processes then take over. " Don't underestimate the value of the words "usually" and "about" in that sentence. You are still trying to absolutely describe something that is very dynamic. Back to top Mxsmanic Guest Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2007 6:13 am    Post subject: Re: Question to Mxmanic Tim writes: Quote: Interestingly, MSFS will simulate this very effect in a C172 or a Baron in a level 360 degree turn. Will it? It doesn't simulate wake turbulence generally, why would it simulate this? Quote: I wonder why the software would imitate something that cannot happen in real life? So do I. -- Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail. Back to top DR Guest Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2007 6:13 am    Post subject: Re: Question to Mxmanic Tom L. wrote: Quote: On Mon, 16 Apr 2007 23:33:54 +0200, Mxsmanic <mxsmanic (AT) gmail (DOT) com wrote: Rip writes: I don't know, but I'm going to find out! I can envision an aircraft with light wing loading, like a Cessna for instance, compressing the air locally as it creates lift. After passage of the wing, the lift created downwash would rebound upward, kind of like skipping a stone on the water. Virtually no compression occurs at the speeds of a Cessna. Compression is only an issue at high speeds. At low speeds, air behaves very much like an imcompressible fluid. The end result is that the downwash stays at a constant altitude, or sinks MUCH more slowly than theory would indicate. The downwash does not stay at a constant altitude. It sinks. It has to, otherwise the aircraft couldn't stay in the air. It doesn't have to continue to sink forever. It can stabilize its position at some point. To explain the encounter with one's own wake turbulence we need some quantification for a particular aircraft/bank/speed: - radii of the vortices - "sink" rate ("sink" meaning movement away from the flight path, not necessarily downward) - final "sink" distance E.g. if the vertex radius is 15 feet and sink rate 20 fpm, we hit the wake after a 30 second turn. If the radius is 15 feet, sink rate 100 fpm, and final distance 10 feet, we still hit it. And so on. Hi Tom, The key may be to understand that while the center of vortex system moves down, air outside the vortex _has_ to move up. (By imparting energy to the vortex (and thereby sustaining it) lift is generated). If you like, the "top" of the vortex can stay at the same level (or even move up) while the center of the vortex moves down as the vortex grows with distance behind the wing. At low angles of attack the vortex center moves slowly down and at high angles it moves down faster (and is more intense). I'll predict that as you fly in a circle you start to create yet _another_ vortex with a radius equal to that of the turn. This vortex is centered on your path of flight and will become closed if you contine the 360 degree turn. At that point, as I see it, you may experience the angle of bank wanting to increase -have you ever felt that? Now add in (1) parasitic drag from the airframe (2) propwash and (3) tail vortex and you are even more likely to encounter your own "turbulence". Comments? 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