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Mxsmanic
Guest
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 Posted: Wed Apr 11, 2007 12:49 am Post subject: Temporarily deviating from IFR |
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You're flying happily over the desert in your small plane, in bright, clear
weather, on your IFR flight plan. You notice a plume of smoke a short
distance away at your nine o'clock, and looking more carefully, you see what
looks like a stranded car with some people standing around it. You'd like to
investigate just to see if it might be someone who needs help.
Given that you're on an IFR flight plan and under ATC control, how do you
handle this? I presume you can't just tell ATC that you're going to swing
south and drop to 2000 feet for a while to check something out. Do you ask
ATC to vector you towards the stranded car? Do you cancel IFR to go take a
look? Is there a way of suspending IFR temporarily so that you can leave your
planned route and altitude and check out the source of the smoke? What's the
procedure?
On a related note (whence the crosspost to r.a.p.), has this ever happened to
you? That is, have you ever seen something that looked like a possible case
of people in distress on the ground and decided to go over and take a look
and/or report it to ATC?
--
Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail. |
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Newps
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Apr 11, 2007 12:57 am Post subject: Re: Temporarily deviating from IFR |
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Mxsmanic wrote:
| Quote: | You're flying happily over the desert in your small plane, in bright, clear
weather, on your IFR flight plan. You notice a plume of smoke a short
distance away at your nine o'clock, and looking more carefully, you see what
looks like a stranded car with some people standing around it. You'd like to
investigate just to see if it might be someone who needs help.
Given that you're on an IFR flight plan and under ATC control, how do you
handle this? I presume you can't just tell ATC that you're going to swing
south and drop to 2000 feet for a while to check something out. Do you ask
ATC to vector you towards the stranded car? Do you cancel IFR to go take a
look? Is there a way of suspending IFR temporarily so that you can leave your
planned route and altitude and check out the source of the smoke? What's the
procedure?
On a related note (whence the crosspost to r.a.p.), has this ever happened to
you? That is, have you ever seen something that looked like a possible case
of people in distress on the ground and decided to go over and take a look
and/or report it to ATC?
|
Sure, you can....well nevermind. |
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Robert M. Gary
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Apr 11, 2007 1:52 am Post subject: Re: Temporarily deviating from IFR |
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On Apr 10, 12:49 pm, Mxsmanic <mxsma...@gmail.com> wrote:
| Quote: | You're flying happily over the desert in your small plane, in bright, clear
weather, on your IFR flight plan. You notice a plume of smoke a short
distance away at your nine o'clock, and looking more carefully, you see what
looks like a stranded car with some people standing around it. You'd like to
investigate just to see if it might be someone who needs help.
Given that you're on an IFR flight plan and under ATC control, how do you
handle this? I presume you can't just tell ATC that you're going to swing
south and drop to 2000 feet for a while to check something out. Do you ask
ATC to vector you towards the stranded car? Do you cancel IFR to go take a
look? Is there a way of suspending IFR temporarily so that you can leave your
planned route and altitude and check out the source of the smoke? What's the
procedure?
On a related note (whence the crosspost to r.a.p.), has this ever happened to
you? That is, have you ever seen something that looked like a possible case
of people in distress on the ground and decided to go over and take a look
and/or report it to ATC?
--
Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail.
|
Sometimes if you see someone who's life seems to be in danger you can
jump out and parachute down to save them.
-Robert |
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Mxsmanic
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Apr 11, 2007 2:08 am Post subject: Re: Temporarily deviating from IFR |
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Danny Deger writes:
| Quote: | The call would be something like, "Request deviation 10 miles north of
course, altitude block of 2,000 to 3,000 feet and 3 360s to investegate a
possible car in distress." But, if the weather is VFR, "Cancel IFR" might
be the best call.
|
Can you reactivate an IFR flight plan after cancelling it and continue from
some point within the plan, or do you have to file a brand new one if you want
to return to IFR.
I take it there's no such thing as "suspend IFR."
--
Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail. |
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Maxwell
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Apr 11, 2007 2:17 am Post subject: Re: Temporarily deviating from IFR |
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"Mxsmanic" <mxsmanic (AT) gmail (DOT) com> wrote in message
news:f9qn13118ughgcmq22do8tf3jqhgctfs5k (AT) 4ax (DOT) com...
| Quote: | You're flying happily over the desert in your small plane, in bright,
clear
weather, on your IFR flight plan. You notice a plume of smoke a short
distance away at your nine o'clock, and looking more carefully, you see
what
looks like a stranded car with some people standing around it. You'd like
to
investigate just to see if it might be someone who needs help.
Given that you're on an IFR flight plan and under ATC control, how do you
handle this? I presume you can't just tell ATC that you're going to swing
south and drop to 2000 feet for a while to check something out. Do you
ask
ATC to vector you towards the stranded car? Do you cancel IFR to go take
a
look? Is there a way of suspending IFR temporarily so that you can leave
your
planned route and altitude and check out the source of the smoke? What's
the
procedure?
On a related note (whence the crosspost to r.a.p.), has this ever happened
to
you? That is, have you ever seen something that looked like a possible
case
of people in distress on the ground and decided to go over and take a look
and/or report it to ATC?
|
Why do you insist on cross posting everthing? |
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Danny Deger
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Apr 11, 2007 2:41 am Post subject: Re: Temporarily deviating from IFR |
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"Mxsmanic" <mxsmanic (AT) gmail (DOT) com> wrote in message
news:f9qn13118ughgcmq22do8tf3jqhgctfs5k (AT) 4ax (DOT) com...
| Quote: | You're flying happily over the desert in your small plane, in bright,
clear
weather, on your IFR flight plan. You notice a plume of smoke a short
distance away at your nine o'clock, and looking more carefully, you see
what
looks like a stranded car with some people standing around it. You'd like
to
investigate just to see if it might be someone who needs help.
|
Simple -- request deviations in the direction needed by the distance needed,
request an altitude block, and request the correct number of 360 degree
turns.
The call would be something like, "Request deviation 10 miles north of
course, altitude block of 2,000 to 3,000 feet and 3 360s to investegate a
possible car in distress." But, if the weather is VFR, "Cancel IFR" might
be the best call.
Danny Deger
| Quote: |
Given that you're on an IFR flight plan and under ATC control, how do you
handle this? I presume you can't just tell ATC that you're going to swing
south and drop to 2000 feet for a while to check something out. Do you
ask
ATC to vector you towards the stranded car? Do you cancel IFR to go take
a
look? Is there a way of suspending IFR temporarily so that you can leave
your
planned route and altitude and check out the source of the smoke? What's
the
procedure?
On a related note (whence the crosspost to r.a.p.), has this ever happened
to
you? That is, have you ever seen something that looked like a possible
case
of people in distress on the ground and decided to go over and take a look
and/or report it to ATC?
--
Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail. |
|
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| Back to top |
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Danny Deger
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Apr 11, 2007 4:03 am Post subject: Re: Temporarily deviating from IFR |
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"Mxsmanic" <mxsmanic (AT) gmail (DOT) com> wrote in message
news:d4vn13hq7ssuqpudgjepp0vcku3pokhpo4 (AT) 4ax (DOT) com...
| Quote: | Danny Deger writes:
The call would be something like, "Request deviation 10 miles north of
course, altitude block of 2,000 to 3,000 feet and 3 360s to investegate a
possible car in distress." But, if the weather is VFR, "Cancel IFR"
might
be the best call.
Can you reactivate an IFR flight plan after cancelling it and continue
from
some point within the plan, or do you have to file a brand new one if you
want
to return to IFR.
I take it there's no such thing as "suspend IFR."
|
You are correct. Once you cancel, you have to refile.
Danny Deger |
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Jose
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Apr 11, 2007 4:37 am Post subject: Re: Temporarily deviating from IFR |
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| Quote: | I take it there's no such thing as "suspend IFR."
You are correct. Once you cancel, you have to refile.
|
If you are VMC and expect to remain so, you could request "VFR on top"
and a course deviation. If they don't have to hold a hard altitude for
you, they may be more flexible in granting deviations.
Jose
--
Get high on gasoline: fly an airplane.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address. |
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Al G
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Apr 11, 2007 4:44 am Post subject: Re: Temporarily deviating from IFR |
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"Newps" <nowhere (AT) nowhere (DOT) com> wrote in message
news:17GdnfdCxMZ5dobbnZ2dnUVZ_sDinZ2d (AT) bresnan (DOT) com...
| Quote: |
Mxsmanic wrote:
You're flying happily over the desert in your small plane, in bright,
clear
weather, on your IFR flight plan. You notice a plume of smoke a short
distance away at your nine o'clock, and looking more carefully, you see
what
looks like a stranded car with some people standing around it. You'd
like to
investigate just to see if it might be someone who needs help.
Given that you're on an IFR flight plan and under ATC control, how do you
handle this? I presume you can't just tell ATC that you're going to
swing
south and drop to 2000 feet for a while to check something out. Do you
ask
ATC to vector you towards the stranded car? Do you cancel IFR to go take
a
look? Is there a way of suspending IFR temporarily so that you can leave
your
planned route and altitude and check out the source of the smoke? What's
the
procedure?
On a related note (whence the crosspost to r.a.p.), has this ever
happened to
you? That is, have you ever seen something that looked like a possible
case
of people in distress on the ground and decided to go over and take a
look
and/or report it to ATC?
Sure, you can....well nevermind.
|
Oh Yea, the old "Burning Car in the Desert" trick.
Al G |
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James M. Knox
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Apr 11, 2007 7:03 pm Post subject: Re: Temporarily deviating from IFR |
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Mxsmanic <mxsmanic (AT) gmail (DOT) com> wrote in
news:d4vn13hq7ssuqpudgjepp0vcku3pokhpo4 (AT) 4ax (DOT) com:
| Quote: | Can you reactivate an IFR flight plan after cancelling it and continue
from some point within the plan, or do you have to file a brand new
one if you want to return to IFR.
I take it there's no such thing as "suspend IFR."
|
Certainly not in those words. There *is* such a thing as a compound
flight plan. This is used where you want to transition from IFR to VFR
or VFR to IFR at a certain point. However, the very few folks I know
who have ever tried to file such a thing have always run into problems
(controller doesn't understand, thing gets munged in the computer,
etc.). Usually easier to file TWO flight plans, one VFR and one IFR,
that swap off at some point. Or, more commonly, just request the change
in the air.
There is also a /D+xx that can be filed. It's used (at least in theory)
when you want to "suspend" the IFR flight for a few minutes at an
airport, usually to pick up or drop off a passenger. You file the route
something like CWK V17 TPL/D+15 V17 ACT where TPL is the Temple Texas
airport and you are going to be on the ground 15 minutes or less.
The problem is, it almost never works. Controllers have forgotten what
it means, and they don't like to have to keep the airspace sanitized
while you are on the ground. They would again much prefer you to simply
file TWO flight plans (in this case, one to TPL and one from TPL).
For the case you described that started this thread, the usual case is
simply to request deviations as needed. But IFR is really *not* for
sightseeing. [That's why airlines fly IFR always, now. They used to
always "sightsee" in good weather, until the day two of them ran into
each other over the Grand Canyon. After that the rules changed.]
-----------------------------------------------
James M. Knox
TriSoft ph 512-385-0316
1300 Koenig Lane West fax 512-371-5716
Suite 200
Austin, Tx 78756 jknox (AT) trisoft (DOT) com
----------------------------------------------- |
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Newps
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Apr 11, 2007 8:12 pm Post subject: Re: Temporarily deviating from IFR |
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James M. Knox wrote:
| Quote: | Mxsmanic <mxsmanic (AT) gmail (DOT) com> wrote in
news:d4vn13hq7ssuqpudgjepp0vcku3pokhpo4 (AT) 4ax (DOT) com:
Can you reactivate an IFR flight plan after cancelling it and continue
from some point within the plan, or do you have to file a brand new
one if you want to return to IFR.
I take it there's no such thing as "suspend IFR."
Certainly not in those words.
|
You guys sure make this hard. The IFR system is not that rigid. |
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Mxsmanic
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Apr 11, 2007 10:37 pm Post subject: Re: Temporarily deviating from IFR |
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Newps writes:
| Quote: | You guys sure make this hard. The IFR system is not that rigid.
|
But there does seem to be a gulf between what is theoretically and formally
allowed and what actually works in practice.
--
Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail. |
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Jim Stewart
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Apr 11, 2007 11:07 pm Post subject: Re: Temporarily deviating from IFR |
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James M. Knox wrote:
| Quote: | Mxsmanic <mxsmanic (AT) gmail (DOT) com> wrote in
news:d4vn13hq7ssuqpudgjepp0vcku3pokhpo4 (AT) 4ax (DOT) com:
Can you reactivate an IFR flight plan after cancelling it and continue
from some point within the plan, or do you have to file a brand new
one if you want to return to IFR.
I take it there's no such thing as "suspend IFR."
|
snipped reply...
| Quote: | For the case you described that started this thread, the usual case is
simply to request deviations as needed. But IFR is really *not* for
sightseeing. [That's why airlines fly IFR always, now. They used to
always "sightsee" in good weather, until the day two of them ran into
each other over the Grand Canyon. After that the rules changed.]
|
I was on a commercial flight years ago with an
active COM feed to the SLF headsets. Ours and
several other planes were picking their way through
a storm front and were continually requesting
10-20 degree right and left deviations to avoid
weather. |
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Dave Butler
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Apr 12, 2007 12:04 am Post subject: Re: Temporarily deviating from IFR |
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| Quote: | I was on a commercial flight years ago with an
active COM feed to the SLF headsets. Ours and
several other planes were picking their way through
a storm front and were continually requesting
10-20 degree right and left deviations to avoid
weather.
|
Sure. That's what the Garmin 396/496 is for. The big boys have on-board
radar, of course. When there are storms about the frequency is full of
such requests. |
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Thomas Borchert
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Apr 12, 2007 11:48 pm Post subject: Re: Temporarily deviating from IFR |
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Mxsmanic,
| Quote: | But there does seem to be a gulf between what is theoretically and formally
allowed and what actually works in practice.
|
Not at all. It's all exactly the way it is in your game. No difference
between simulation and real life, remember?
--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH) |
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