AirTalk.org Aviation discussions newsgroups   Archives   FAQ   Search   Memberlist   Usergroups   Register   Profile   Log in to check your private messages   Log in  Any value in first learning in an ultralight?          AirTalk.org Forum Index -> Aviation (Students) View previous topic :: View next topic   Author Message Jim Logajan Guest Posted: Tue Apr 03, 2007 5:19 am    Post subject: Any value in first learning in an ultralight? For some reason I keep thinking it would be interesting and maybe even useful to start flight training in a Part 103 ultralight. But since I'd eventually want to acquire a private pilot certificate I'm not sure that route provides any advantages, so I shelve the idea. Then it resurfaces like a weed. ;-) The theory I've heard from some proponents of starting with ultralights is that you concentrate your efforts mostly on learning to fly. Learning how to stay Part 103 legal seems relatively straightforward - and the tests don't appear hard. It is even alleged to be more fun to learn that way. :-) Anyone who first learned in ultralights and then gone on to a PPL and have any insight to share? Or gotten a PPL and then transitioned to ultralights and has some insight to share from that perspective? Thanks! Back to top Bob Noel Guest Posted: Tue Apr 03, 2007 5:31 am    Post subject: Re: Any value in first learning in an ultralight? In article <Xns9906AFDB469D7JamesLLugojcom (AT) 216 (DOT) 168.3.30>, Jim Logajan <JamesL (AT) Lugoj (DOT) com> wrote: Quote: Anyone who first learned in ultralights and then gone on to a PPL and have any insight to share? Or gotten a PPL and then transitioned to ultralights and has some insight to share from that perspective? how about a different perspective: One of my main motivations for getting my PPL was to fly ultralights, but after flying 172s and warriors, I was hooked and didn't see any point in flying ultralights (not a lot of places to fly them around the Boston MA area). -- Bob Noel (gave up looking for a particular sig the lawyer will hate) Back to top Tim Guest Posted: Tue Apr 03, 2007 5:40 am    Post subject: Re: Any value in first learning in an ultralight? I'd be interested in hearing responses too. I have a plane/ I want a floatplane thought and it may be the best alternative for me would be to keep the single engine land plane I own for travelling and get the floatplane in an ultrlight for fun... Jim Logajan wrote: Quote: For some reason I keep thinking it would be interesting and maybe even useful to start flight training in a Part 103 ultralight. But since I'd eventually want to acquire a private pilot certificate I'm not sure that route provides any advantages, so I shelve the idea. Then it resurfaces like a weed. ;-) The theory I've heard from some proponents of starting with ultralights is that you concentrate your efforts mostly on learning to fly. Learning how to stay Part 103 legal seems relatively straightforward - and the tests don't appear hard. It is even alleged to be more fun to learn that way. :-) Anyone who first learned in ultralights and then gone on to a PPL and have any insight to share? Or gotten a PPL and then transitioned to ultralights and has some insight to share from that perspective? Thanks! Back to top Mark Hansen Guest Posted: Tue Apr 03, 2007 5:54 am    Post subject: Re: Any value in first learning in an ultralight? On 04/02/07 17:19, Jim Logajan wrote: Quote: For some reason I keep thinking it would be interesting and maybe even useful to start flight training in a Part 103 ultralight. But since I'd eventually want to acquire a private pilot certificate I'm not sure that route provides any advantages, so I shelve the idea. Then it resurfaces like a weed. ;-) The theory I've heard from some proponents of starting with ultralights is that you concentrate your efforts mostly on learning to fly. Learning how to stay Part 103 legal seems relatively straightforward - and the tests don't appear hard. It is even alleged to be more fun to learn that way. More fun? Definitely a different kind of fun! Quote: Anyone who first learned in ultralights and then gone on to a PPL and have any insight to share? Or gotten a PPL and then transitioned to ultralights and has some insight to share from that perspective? Thanks! Well, I began PP training in 1985 and quite before my long solo cross country flight due to finances, job, etc. It wasn't until around 2003 that I decided to get back into fight, and I decided to start with UL training, as I thought it would be cheaper. How different the flying is depends on the type of vehicle you fly. I initially flew a Quicksilver MX-II, which is very different from a typical Cessna trainer (still three axis though). I then had problems with that instructor and found another one that use a Rans S12 (I think that's what it was called). I really enjoyed flying both UL vehicles, but had a really hard time getting the landing flare down. I finally soloed after about 35 hours - but about 25 hours of that was with the first instructor where I didn't feel I was learning anything useful. The written test is certainly easier, and most of it will help you on your PP-ASEL written test. The flight test is going to be easier too. In my case, the instructor just signed me off one day, saying I had pretty much shown that I could do everything. There wasn't a separately scheduled practical test like there was in the PP world. As for the cost, I was paying about $100/hr for the UL and Instructor, even when I was flying solo (I'm sure this was just the policy of that particular instructor, as he didn't really rent his UL - but made an exception for me). This was at a time when I could rent an IFR-certified Cessna 172 for around $80. After I got my UL certificate, I went down to the local FBO and started my PP-ASEL training. As a result of the UL training, there was a lot of stuff I already knew, so I think there was an advantage there, but I didn't see it actually reduce the number of hours it took me to get my certificate. I can probably answer other questions as well, but will stop at this point, so the post doesn't get too long. -- Mark Hansen, PP-ASEL, Instrument Airplane, USUA Ultralight Pilot Cal Aggie Flying Farmers Sacramento, CA Back to top Mark Hansen Guest Posted: Tue Apr 03, 2007 5:57 am    Post subject: Re: Any value in first learning in an ultralight? On 04/02/07 17:31, Bob Noel wrote: Quote: In article <Xns9906AFDB469D7JamesLLugojcom (AT) 216 (DOT) 168.3.30>, Jim Logajan <JamesL (AT) Lugoj (DOT) com> wrote: Anyone who first learned in ultralights and then gone on to a PPL and have any insight to share? Or gotten a PPL and then transitioned to ultralights and has some insight to share from that perspective? how about a different perspective: One of my main motivations for getting my PPL was to fly ultralights, but after flying 172s and warriors, I was hooked and didn't see any point in flying ultralights (not a lot of places to fly them around the Boston MA area). Well, Ultralights are a completely different kind of flying. If you try it, you may get hooked there as well ;-) .... of course, that depends on the vehicle you use - some can really be a lot of fun. -- Mark Hansen, PP-ASEL, Instrument Airplane, USUA Ultralight Pilot Cal Aggie Flying Farmers Sacramento, CA Back to top Jim Logajan Guest Posted: Tue Apr 03, 2007 6:13 am    Post subject: Re: Any value in first learning in an ultralight? Mark Hansen <meh (AT) NOSPAMwinfirst (DOT) com> wrote: Quote: Where are you located? Near Springfield Oregon. (As an aside, my wife and I lived in Folsom for several months about 10 years ago.) Back to top Jim Logajan Guest Posted: Tue Apr 03, 2007 6:13 am    Post subject: Re: Any value in first learning in an ultralight? Mark Hansen <meh (AT) NOSPAMwinfirst (DOT) com> wrote: Quote: How different the flying is depends on the type of vehicle you fly. I initially flew a Quicksilver MX-II, which is very different from a typical Cessna trainer (still three axis though). I then had problems with that instructor and found another one that use a Rans S12 (I think that's what it was called). The UL type was not a point I'd given a lot of thought. The two instructors the EAA lists as being closest to me both show as providing "powered para wing" training, not "powered fixed wing" training. Hmmm. Quote: As for the cost, I was paying about $100/hr for the UL and Instructor, even when I was flying solo (I'm sure this was just the policy of that particular instructor, as he didn't really rent his UL - but made an exception for me). This was at a time when I could rent an IFR-certified Cessna 172 for around $80. While I wasn't expecting a large savings, I wasn't expecting it to cost more than renting a certified plane! Hopefully your situation and location was an exception! Quote: After I got my UL certificate, I went down to the local FBO and started my PP-ASEL training. As a result of the UL training, there was a lot of stuff I already knew, so I think there was an advantage there, but I didn't see it actually reduce the number of hours it took me to get my certificate. I can probably answer other questions as well, but will stop at this point, so the post doesn't get too long. I appreciate the detail you did provide. Thanks! I guess the only question I can think of at the moment is: Did you do your UL training in the Sacramento area? Back to top Mark Hansen Guest Posted: Tue Apr 03, 2007 6:13 am    Post subject: Re: Any value in first learning in an ultralight? On 04/02/07 19:35, Jim Logajan wrote: Quote: Mark Hansen <meh (AT) NOSPAMwinfirst (DOT) com> wrote: How different the flying is depends on the type of vehicle you fly. I initially flew a Quicksilver MX-II, which is very different from a typical Cessna trainer (still three axis though). I then had problems with that instructor and found another one that use a Rans S12 (I think that's what it was called). The UL type was not a point I'd given a lot of thought. The two instructors the EAA lists as being closest to me both show as providing "powered para wing" training, not "powered fixed wing" training. Hmmm. I've never done powered parachute, so I can't comment on that. Quote: As for the cost, I was paying about $100/hr for the UL and Instructor, even when I was flying solo (I'm sure this was just the policy of that particular instructor, as he didn't really rent his UL - but made an exception for me). This was at a time when I could rent an IFR-certified Cessna 172 for around $80. While I wasn't expecting a large savings, I wasn't expecting it to cost more than renting a certified plane! Hopefully your situation and location was an exception! Perhaps. That was airplane + instructor (I just didn't get a break on solo...). Quote: After I got my UL certificate, I went down to the local FBO and started my PP-ASEL training. As a result of the UL training, there was a lot of stuff I already knew, so I think there was an advantage there, but I didn't see it actually reduce the number of hours it took me to get my certificate. I can probably answer other questions as well, but will stop at this point, so the post doesn't get too long. I appreciate the detail you did provide. Thanks! I guess the only question I can think of at the moment is: Did you do your UL training in the Sacramento area? Yes, and there isn't much UL training going on out here (well, at least not when I was looking). Where are you located? -- Mark Hansen, PP-ASEL, Instrument Airplane, USUA Ultralight Pilot Cal Aggie Flying Farmers Sacramento, CA Back to top Jim Logajan Guest Posted: Wed Apr 04, 2007 6:12 am    Post subject: Re: Any value in first learning in an ultralight? "James Sleeman" <bitsyboffin (AT) gmail (DOT) com> wrote: [ Elided for brevity. ] Quote: I think the short answer is, find a local (3 axis) ultralight instructor, or better, club, go for a fly, and see what you think. It's all about getting in the air at the end of the day. Thank you and the others who have responded for your insights. (I still haven't decided yet what route I'm going to pursue, though local availability may dictate going straight to traditional private pilot training.) Back to top Dallas Guest Posted: Sat Apr 07, 2007 11:41 pm    Post subject: Re: Any value in first learning in an ultralight? On Thu, 05 Apr 2007 15:41:26 -0400, Mark T. Dame wrote: Quote: We're good at flying because we're afraid of falling! (-: Astute observation. -- Dallas Back to top Alan Gerber Guest Posted: Thu Apr 12, 2007 1:49 am    Post subject: Re: Any value in first learning in an ultralight? Dan_Thomas_nospam (AT) yahoo (DOT) com wrote: Quote: I read, many years ago, an article by an Air Force psychiatrist who told of the many pilots who came to himn, privately admitting a fear of heights (ladders, roofs, and so on). These same men had had no such fear before they learned to fly. He concluded that pilots get used to being in control of their altitude, knowing that the airplane will recover from whatever silliness they ask of it, provided that there's adequate altitude and they don't pull the wings off. Totally controllable, in other words. Getting on the ladder, they realize that the least slip or lapse in judgment could break their necks and they get nervous. For me, the fear of heights pre-dates learning to fly. I had one moment during training -- I think my first steep turn -- where I looked out the window at the ground below me and got a little nervous. I got over it pretty quickly, and it hasn't been an issue since then. If anything, higher feels better now. .... Alan -- Alan Gerber PP-ASEL gerber AT panix DOT com Back to top Display posts from previous: All Posts1 Day7 Days2 Weeks1 Month3 Months6 Months1 Year Oldest FirstNewest First         AirTalk.org Forum Index -> Aviation (Students) All times are GMT Page 1 of 1   Jump to: Select a forum Aviation----------------alt.aviationAviation safety EnhancementPlanes, gliders and flying in AustraliaAviation et pilotage (Français)rec.aviationAviation (Aerobatics)Hot air, gas balloons and airshipsHang-gliding, paragliding, foot-launched flightAircraft Design & BuildingInstrument Flight RulesAviation (Classifieds)Military AircraftNaval AviationAviation (Miscellaneous Topics)Owning AirplanesAviators (General Discussions)Aviation related productsAircraft RestorationHelicopters and rotary wing aircraftsFlight SimulationSailplanesAviation (Students)Light aircraftFlying related activities in the UK Airports----------------alt.airportsEdinburgh Airport Glasgow Airport Humberside Airport Luton Airport Aberdeen Airport Glasgow Prestwick Airport  You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2006 phpBB Group SEO toolkit © 2004-2006 webmedic.