AirTalk.org Aviation discussions newsgroups   Archives   FAQ   Search   Memberlist   Usergroups   Register   Profile   Log in to check your private messages   Log in  a VERY close call....who'd be deck crew? Goto page 1, 2  Next          AirTalk.org Forum Index -> Helicopters and rotary wing aircrafts View previous topic :: View next topic   Author Message Nick Guest Posted: Tue Feb 20, 2007 5:43 pm    Post subject: a VERY close call....who'd be deck crew? Thought you guys might be interested http://www.videosift.com/video/Helicopter-Madness-A-Close-Call But why wouldn't he have kept some negative collective to keep it nailed to the deck?.... how far would the tips 'dished' down?.....not enough to cause the crew more worries than they already had?? It seemed very light on the skids on the previous couple of swells?? Back to top The OTHER Kevin in San Di Guest Posted: Tue Feb 20, 2007 10:06 pm    Post subject: Re: a VERY close call....who'd be deck crew? On Tue, 20 Feb 2007 11:43:13 -0000, "Nick" <nick.costin1 (AT) btinternet (DOT) com> wrote: Quote: Thought you guys might be interested http://www.videosift.com/video/Helicopter-Madness-A-Close-Call But why wouldn't he have kept some negative collective to keep it nailed to the deck?.... how far would the tips 'dished' down?.....not enough to cause the crew more worries than they already had?? It seemed very light on the skids on the previous couple of swells?? Didn't look at the vid, but is this the one with the Enstrom whacking the tail rotor on the deck? If so, I point the finger at the pilot. Why is he pulling so much pitch that he's light on the skids?? Why, when he felt the heli coming off the deck, didn't he pull max power and climb the hell out? Back to top Andrew Crane Guest Posted: Tue Feb 20, 2007 10:13 pm    Post subject: Re: a VERY close call....who'd be deck crew? "Nick" <nick.costin1 (AT) btinternet (DOT) com> wrote in message news:cbSdnaG1Ybx7Q0fYnZ2dnUVZ8vidnZ2d (AT) bt (DOT) com... Quote: Thought you guys might be interested http://www.videosift.com/video/Helicopter-Madness-A-Close-Call But why wouldn't he have kept some negative collective to keep it nailed to the deck?.... how far would the tips 'dished' down?.....not enough to cause the crew more worries than they already had?? I think you dreamed "negative collective". Quote: It seemed very light on the skids on the previous couple of swells?? The chap took off. It didn't do this by itself. Regards Andrew Back to top JohnO Guest Posted: Wed Feb 21, 2007 1:04 am    Post subject: Re: a VERY close call....who'd be deck crew? On Feb 21, 5:13 am, "Andrew Crane" <n...@inweb.co.uk> wrote: Quote: "Nick" <nick.cost...@btinternet.com> wrote in message news:cbSdnaG1Ybx7Q0fYnZ2dnUVZ8vidnZ2d (AT) bt (DOT) com... Thought you guys might be interested http://www.videosift.com/video/Helicopter-Madness-A-Close-Call But why wouldn't he have kept some negative collective to keep it nailed to the deck?.... how far would the tips 'dished' down?.....not enough to cause the crew more worries than they already had?? I think you dreamed "negative collective". It seemed very light on the skids on the previous couple of swells?? The chap took off. It didn't do this by itself. Regards Andrew If the collective was not full down the chopper would be light on the skids, The ship dropping in the swell would be enough for it to lift off the deck. Back to top Don W Guest Posted: Wed Feb 21, 2007 4:32 am    Post subject: Re: a VERY close call....who'd be deck crew? Nick wrote: Quote: Thought you guys might be interested http://www.videosift.com/video/Helicopter-Madness-A-Close-Call But why wouldn't he have kept some negative collective to keep it nailed to the deck?.... how far would the tips 'dished' down?.....not enough to cause the crew more worries than they already had?? It seemed very light on the skids on the previous couple of swells?? Wow! He was lucky to get it back down on the deck in one piece with no tail rotor. It could have just as easily easily gone over the side. That video is a good lesson on why hot shots get in trouble sometimes. Don W. Back to top Elzee36 Guest Posted: Wed Feb 21, 2007 8:57 pm    Post subject: Re: a VERY close call....who'd be deck crew? On Feb 20, 5:32�pm, Don W <donw_s11atswbelldot...@figure.it.out> wrote: Quote: Wow!  He was lucky to get it back down on the deck in one piece with no tail rotor. No the lucky one is the ground crew guy who was in the rear when the copter started to spin. Whoa!! Back to top Don W Guest Posted: Thu Feb 22, 2007 1:03 am    Post subject: Re: a VERY close call....who'd be deck crew? Elzee36 wrote: Quote: On Feb 20, 5:32�pm, Don W <donw_s11atswbelldot...@figure.it.out wrote: Wow! ?He was lucky to get it back down on the deck in one piece with no tail rotor. No the lucky one is the ground crew guy who was in the rear when the copter started to spin. Whoa!! Yes, He was lucky too. Don W. Back to top Andrew Crane Guest Posted: Thu Feb 22, 2007 9:25 pm    Post subject: Re: a VERY close call....who'd be deck crew? "JohnO" <johno1234 (AT) gmail (DOT) com> wrote in message news:1171998242.894203.211830 (AT) v33g2000cwv (DOT) googlegroups.com... Quote: On Feb 21, 5:13 am, "Andrew Crane" <n...@inweb.co.uk> wrote: "Nick" <nick.cost...@btinternet.com> wrote in message news:cbSdnaG1Ybx7Q0fYnZ2dnUVZ8vidnZ2d (AT) bt (DOT) com... Thought you guys might be interested http://www.videosift.com/video/Helicopter-Madness-A-Close-Call But why wouldn't he have kept some negative collective to keep it nailed to the deck?.... how far would the tips 'dished' down?.....not enough to cause the crew more worries than they already had?? I think you dreamed "negative collective". It seemed very light on the skids on the previous couple of swells?? The chap took off. It didn't do this by itself. Regards Andrew If the collective was not full down the chopper would be light on the skids, The ship dropping in the swell would be enough for it to lift off the deck. Which begs the question why was he light on the skids in the first place. And why he didn't respond to the lurching during the previous two swells. I think he was having a play. Regards Andrew Back to top JohnO Guest Posted: Fri Feb 23, 2007 3:41 am    Post subject: Re: a VERY close call....who'd be deck crew? On Feb 23, 4:25 am, "Andrew Crane" <n...@inweb.co.uk> wrote: Quote: "JohnO" <johno1...@gmail.com> wrote in message news:1171998242.894203.211830 (AT) v33g2000cwv (DOT) googlegroups.com... On Feb 21, 5:13 am, "Andrew Crane" <n...@inweb.co.uk> wrote: "Nick" <nick.cost...@btinternet.com> wrote in message news:cbSdnaG1Ybx7Q0fYnZ2dnUVZ8vidnZ2d (AT) bt (DOT) com... Thought you guys might be interested http://www.videosift.com/video/Helicopter-Madness-A-Close-Call But why wouldn't he have kept some negative collective to keep it nailed to the deck?.... how far would the tips 'dished' down?.....not enough to cause the crew more worries than they already had?? I think you dreamed "negative collective". It seemed very light on the skids on the previous couple of swells?? The chap took off. It didn't do this by itself. Regards Andrew If the collective was not full down the chopper would be light on the skids, The ship dropping in the swell would be enough for it to lift off the deck. Which begs the question why was he light on the skids in the first place. And why he didn't respond to the lurching during the previous two swells. I think he was having a play. Regards Andrew- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - That or incredibly careless given the situation. Either way, pretty inexcusable. Very nice job of instantly dumping collective to get back down after the tail strike. Any attempt to fly it down and he'd have been history. Back to top Steve R Guest Posted: Fri Feb 23, 2007 1:26 pm    Post subject: Re: a VERY close call....who'd be deck crew? "JohnO" <johno1234 (AT) gmail (DOT) com> wrote in message news:1172180488.576691.140880 (AT) k78g2000cwa (DOT) googlegroups.com... Quote: On Feb 23, 4:25 am, "Andrew Crane" <n...@inweb.co.uk> wrote: "JohnO" <johno1...@gmail.com> wrote in message news:1171998242.894203.211830 (AT) v33g2000cwv (DOT) googlegroups.com... On Feb 21, 5:13 am, "Andrew Crane" <n...@inweb.co.uk> wrote: "Nick" <nick.cost...@btinternet.com> wrote in message news:cbSdnaG1Ybx7Q0fYnZ2dnUVZ8vidnZ2d (AT) bt (DOT) com... Thought you guys might be interested http://www.videosift.com/video/Helicopter-Madness-A-Close-Call But why wouldn't he have kept some negative collective to keep it nailed to the deck?.... how far would the tips 'dished' down?.....not enough to cause the crew more worries than they already had?? I think you dreamed "negative collective". It seemed very light on the skids on the previous couple of swells?? The chap took off. It didn't do this by itself. Regards Andrew If the collective was not full down the chopper would be light on the skids, The ship dropping in the swell would be enough for it to lift off the deck. Which begs the question why was he light on the skids in the first place. And why he didn't respond to the lurching during the previous two swells. I think he was having a play. Regards Andrew- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - That or incredibly careless given the situation. Either way, pretty inexcusable. Very nice job of instantly dumping collective to get back down after the tail strike. Any attempt to fly it down and he'd have been history. Is the netting standard equipment in such cases? Seem like it did a good job of giving the skids something to grab on to when he set it down. I can imagine the aircraft sliding off the pad without it. Also, those have "got" to be two of the luckiest deck hands in the world! Fly Safe, Steve R. Back to top Clark Guest Posted: Fri Feb 23, 2007 2:28 pm    Post subject: Re: a VERY close call....who'd be deck crew? "Steve R" <srhodes13 (AT) houston (DOT) rr.nospam.com> wrote in news:45de972f$0$18887$4c368faf (AT) roadrunner (DOT) com: Quote: "JohnO" <johno1234 (AT) gmail (DOT) com> wrote in message news:1172180488.576691.140880 (AT) k78g2000cwa (DOT) googlegroups.com... On Feb 23, 4:25 am, "Andrew Crane" <n...@inweb.co.uk> wrote: "JohnO" <johno1...@gmail.com> wrote in message news:1171998242.894203.211830 (AT) v33g2000cwv (DOT) googlegroups.com... On Feb 21, 5:13 am, "Andrew Crane" <n...@inweb.co.uk> wrote: "Nick" <nick.cost...@btinternet.com> wrote in message news:cbSdnaG1Ybx7Q0fYnZ2dnUVZ8vidnZ2d (AT) bt (DOT) com... Thought you guys might be interested http://www.videosift.com/video/Helicopter-Madness-A-Close-Call But why wouldn't he have kept some negative collective to keep it nailed to the deck?.... how far would the tips 'dished' down?.....not enough to cause the crew more worries than they already had?? I think you dreamed "negative collective". It seemed very light on the skids on the previous couple of swells?? The chap took off. It didn't do this by itself. Regards Andrew If the collective was not full down the chopper would be light on the skids, The ship dropping in the swell would be enough for it to lift off the deck. Which begs the question why was he light on the skids in the first place. And why he didn't respond to the lurching during the previous two swells. I think he was having a play. Regards Andrew- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - That or incredibly careless given the situation. Either way, pretty inexcusable. Very nice job of instantly dumping collective to get back down after the tail strike. Any attempt to fly it down and he'd have been history. Is the netting standard equipment in such cases? Seem like it did a good job of giving the skids something to grab on to when he set it down. I can imagine the aircraft sliding off the pad without it. Also, those have "got" to be two of the luckiest deck hands in the world! From an observers (non-pilot) point of view, netting seems to be standard for North Sea operations. I think it's required by the rules for offshore oilfield operations but it's been too long since I had to deal with that sort of stuff to be sure that my memory of the requirement is correct. Other areas with much calmer weather such as the Gulf of Mexico don't require helideck netting. -- --- there should be a "sig" here Back to top B4RT Guest Posted: Sat Feb 24, 2007 5:31 am    Post subject: Re: a VERY close call/ armchair pilots "Nick" <nick.costin1 (AT) btinternet (DOT) com> wrote in message news:cbSdnaG1Ybx7Q0fYnZ2dnUVZ8vidnZ2d (AT) bt (DOT) com... Quote: Thought you guys might be interested http://www.videosift.com/video/Helicopter-Madness-A-Close-Call But why wouldn't he have kept some negative collective to keep it nailed to the deck?.... how far would the tips 'dished' down?.....not enough to cause the crew more worries than they already had?? It seemed very light on the skids on the previous couple of swells?? Negative collective? .....ROTFLMFAO! Boy I dont think I have that option on mine. My armchair analysis is that the helicopter appeared to have a forward CG and the deck was pitching as much as 15 degrees and rolling about 7 or 8. I don't think the pilot really ever "wanted" to take off. It looked to me like the deck pitched forward a whole lot and he thought the helicopter would nose over if he didn't take off. The deck angle was pitched very far forward at the moment of the tail strike, and the camera gives the illusion that the helicopter was at far less level pitch that it was. I'm thinking that the pilot was taking the lesser of two evils and got bit by one of them. Its clear to me that he was pretty skilled because doing a totally successful hovering auto to that platform like that couldn't be done by an unskilled pilot. The only bad piloting in this incident appears to have happened way before the engine started when someone decided that it was ok to take off in seas like that. Bart Back to top JohnO Guest Posted: Sat Feb 24, 2007 2:32 pm    Post subject: Re: a VERY close call/ armchair pilots On Feb 24, 12:31 pm, "B4RT" <noahb...@nospam.org> wrote: Quote: "Nick" <nick.cost...@btinternet.com> wrote in message news:cbSdnaG1Ybx7Q0fYnZ2dnUVZ8vidnZ2d (AT) bt (DOT) com... Thought you guys might be interested http://www.videosift.com/video/Helicopter-Madness-A-Close-Call But why wouldn't he have kept some negative collective to keep it nailed to the deck?.... how far would the tips 'dished' down?.....not enough to cause the crew more worries than they already had?? It seemed very light on the skids on the previous couple of swells?? Negative collective? .....ROTFLMFAO! Boy I dont think I have that option on mine. Heh! The only heli's I've seen that can do negative are the R/C ones - they can fly upside down! Quote: My armchair analysis is that the helicopter appeared to have a forward CG and the deck was pitching as much as 15 degrees and rolling about 7 or 8. I don't think the pilot really ever "wanted" to take off. It looked to me like the deck pitched forward a whole lot and he thought the helicopter would nose over if he didn't take off. The deck angle was pitched very far forward at the moment of the tail strike, and the camera gives the illusion that the helicopter was at far less level pitch that it was. I'm thinking that the pilot was taking the lesser of two evils and got bit by one of them. Its clear to me that he was pretty skilled because doing a totally successful hovering auto to that platform like that couldn't be done by an unskilled pilot. The only bad piloting in this incident appears to have happened way before the engine started when someone decided that it was ok to take off in seas like that. Bart Back to top JohnO Guest Posted: Sat Feb 24, 2007 2:35 pm    Post subject: Re: a VERY close call/ armchair pilots On Feb 24, 12:31 pm, "B4RT" <noahb...@nospam.org> wrote: Quote: "Nick" <nick.cost...@btinternet.com> wrote in message news:cbSdnaG1Ybx7Q0fYnZ2dnUVZ8vidnZ2d (AT) bt (DOT) com... Thought you guys might be interested http://www.videosift.com/video/Helicopter-Madness-A-Close-Call But why wouldn't he have kept some negative collective to keep it nailed to the deck?.... how far would the tips 'dished' down?.....not enough to cause the crew more worries than they already had?? It seemed very light on the skids on the previous couple of swells?? Negative collective? .....ROTFLMFAO! Boy I dont think I have that option on mine. My armchair analysis is that the helicopter appeared to have a forward CG Why would that be? Quote: and the deck was pitching as much as 15 degrees and rolling about 7 or 8. I don't think the pilot really ever "wanted" to take off. It looked to me like the deck pitched forward a whole lot and he thought the helicopter would nose over if he didn't take off. The deck angle was pitched very far I don't think the problem was the angle of the deck - more that it's acceleration down cancelled some gravity - a little POSITIVE collective could have been enough to lift off. Seems like he had a lot of forward cyclic as well though. Quote: forward at the moment of the tail strike, and the camera gives the illusion that the helicopter was at far less level pitch that it was. I'm thinking that the pilot was taking the lesser of two evils and got bit by one of them. Its clear to me that he was pretty skilled because doing a totally successful hovering auto to that platform like that couldn't be done by an unskilled pilot. The only bad piloting in this incident appears to have happened way before the engine started when someone decided that it was ok to take off in seas like that. Bart Back to top B4RT Guest Posted: Sat Feb 24, 2007 7:13 pm    Post subject: Re: a VERY close call/ armchair pilots "JohnO" <johno1234 (AT) gmail (DOT) com> wrote in message news:1172306131.134022.34680 (AT) 8g2000cwh (DOT) googlegroups.com... Quote: My armchair analysis is that the helicopter appeared to have a forward CG Why would that be? I dont know, maybe there were two fattys on board with the pilot. I've flown an Enstrom and don't recall it being nose heavy, but each time the ship pitched forward I thought I noticed it get light on the aft section of the skids. Quote: and the deck was pitching as much as 15 degrees and rolling about 7 or 8. I don't think the pilot really ever "wanted" to take off. It looked to me like the deck pitched forward a whole lot and he thought the helicopter would nose over if he didn't take off. The deck angle was pitched very far I don't think the problem was the angle of the deck - more that it's acceleration down cancelled some gravity - a little POSITIVE collective could have been enough to lift off. Seems like he had a lot of forward cyclic as well though. Nah... I don't think so. Boats dont go up and down in seas like that with negative G's that significant. Enstrom pilots don't tend to spend a lot of time getting light on the skids either because of the damn oleo struts and ground resonance tendancy of that machine. That guy flying was no amateur, he was locked and loaded when he chopped the throttle and did that auto. There's several HUGE differences in the flight dynamics of RC heli's and real ones. RC's tend to have very low CG's, this makes them more stable. RC's have an assload more collective juice than the big things, you don't come off the helipad in a real one without really intending to do it. The static and dynamic relative rotor mass of a an RC is very small, you can move the cyclic much more quickly in an RC and have it take effect without lag. The big spinny gyrosope thingy on top doesnt wan't to change that quickly on a big helicopter. These differences can make it hard to extrapolate the operation of a big one from experiences with a small one. Just imagine trying to drive a semi truck in the same manner you'd drive a Porche. Bart Back to top Display posts from previous: All Posts1 Day7 Days2 Weeks1 Month3 Months6 Months1 Year Oldest FirstNewest First         AirTalk.org Forum Index -> Helicopters and rotary wing aircrafts All times are GMT Goto page 1, 2  Next Page 1 of 2   Jump to: Select a forum Aviation----------------alt.aviationAviation safety EnhancementPlanes, gliders and flying in AustraliaAviation et pilotage (Français)rec.aviationAviation (Aerobatics)Hot air, gas balloons and airshipsHang-gliding, paragliding, foot-launched flightAircraft Design & BuildingInstrument Flight RulesAviation (Classifieds)Military AircraftNaval AviationAviation (Miscellaneous Topics)Owning AirplanesAviators (General Discussions)Aviation related productsAircraft RestorationHelicopters and rotary wing aircraftsFlight SimulationSailplanesAviation (Students)Light aircraftFlying related activities in the UK Airports----------------alt.airportsEdinburgh Airport Glasgow Airport Humberside Airport Luton Airport Aberdeen Airport Glasgow Prestwick Airport  You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2006 phpBB Group SEO toolkit © 2004-2006 webmedic.