AirTalk.org

Greg Copeland · Guest

I'm at 95 hours and am wanting to transition to a complex plane. I
expect I will initially be in an arrow. How many hours, ballpark,
should one expect to transition to a complex plane?

Jim Macklin · Guest

Assuming a proper ground school instruction on systems, 5-10
hours of flight should be more than enough if spent on the
aircraft and not cruising around just building hours.

You should also begin working on your instrument rating.

"Greg Copeland" <gtcopeland (AT) gmail (DOT) com> wrote in message
news:1163877105.216153.154030 (AT) k70g2000cwa (DOT) googlegroups.com...
| I'm at 95 hours and am wanting to transition to a complex
plane. I
| expect I will initially be in an arrow. How many hours,
ballpark,
| should one expect to transition to a complex plane?
|

Andrew Sarangan · Guest

Greg Copeland wrote:

john smith · Guest

In article <1163877105.216153.154030 (AT) k70g2000cwa (DOT) googlegroups.com>,
"Greg Copeland" <gtcopeland (AT) gmail (DOT) com> wrote:

Roy Smith · Guest

In article <1163886723.768753.127590 (AT) m7g2000cwm (DOT) googlegroups.com>,
"Andrew Sarangan" <asarangan (AT) yahoo (DOT) com> wrote:

Jack Allison · Guest

Greg Copeland wrote:

Jack Allison · Guest

john smith wrote:

Tony · Guest

Airplanes like Mooneys should not be avoided. It isn't that it's a
complex airplane, it's a slippery one. You MUST control speed
especially during the landing phase or you'll float forever. Take a
couple of hours dual in one during your complex training and you'll be
a much better Arrow pilot.

Of course, after a couple of hours in a Mooney you may not want to fly
the Arrow :-)

On Nov 18, 10:04 pm, Jack Allison
<k2_boardri...@rem0ve.th1s.comcast.net> wrote:

Jim Macklin · Guest

You do need to learn about all types of complex systems, not
just the simple systems on the PA28R.
How does the prop work and what are its failure modes.
How does the landing gear work, what do all the new V speeds
mean.
What is a general overview of all the various systems since
the complex endorsement is a generic, "you can fly anything"
with an open ended life-time sword over the CFIs head.
A 95 hour pilot is very low time, does not have the IR and
will need more time than a PP with an IR and several hundred
hours. A proper checkout will involve several short x-c
flights with transitions into and out of the pattern, a high
speed and a low speed pattern, emergency gear extension
procedures more than once. The ground school will [must]
cover these things, but some dual is required and a quick
check-out should cover a variety of procedures involving the
prop, the governor and the landing gear, as well as all the
perhaps, new avionics.

"Ron Natalie" <ron (AT) spamcop (DOT) net> wrote in message
news:456050e7$0$26885$9a6e19ea (AT) news (DOT) newshosting.com...
| Jim Macklin wrote:
| > Assuming a proper ground school instruction on systems,
5-10
| > hours of flight should be more than enough if spent on
the
| > aircraft and not cruising around just building hours.
| >
|
| If it takes you more than 5 hours to learn how to fly an
| Arrow, you need to work on your basic airmanship more (or
| the FBO is padding their dual instruction time). There
| are only two differences to the (normally aspirated) arrow
| over the rest of the PA-28's: Remember to put the rolly
| things down before landing, and learn how to set the prop
| control. The gear speed is sufficiently high that you
| don't even need to worry about being too fast in most
| cases.
|

Jim Macklin · Guest

The high speed and the rate they build speed. The Arrow
landing gear free-falls, the Beech landing gear is electric
motor driven through a gear box and uses a hand crank on the
motor to move the same gear box. If the motor is frozen,
the gear can't be extended since the hand crank actually
turns the motor.
The Mooney has several procedures to extend and retract the
gear, older planes were manually operated by a lever
[Johnson Bar] and newer airplanes use electric motors and
have variations within that also.
The big issue is that the Bonanza cruises above the landing
gear speed and above Va/Vb speeds. You must learn to manage
the Bonanza so you can slow down, without damaging the
engine, and be able to extend the gear when you get to the
pattern. In other words, planning is a bigger part of
flying a high performance airplane. The Bonanza is both
complex and high performance.

Just learning how to properly close the door on a Bonanza
can take 15 minutes.

"Greg Copeland" <gtcopeland (AT) gmail (DOT) com> wrote in message
news:1163943072.658902.261040 (AT) b28g2000cwb (DOT) googlegroups.com...
| Andrew Sarangan wrote:
| > Greg Copeland wrote:
| > > I'm at 95 hours and am wanting to transition to a
complex plane. I
| > > expect I will initially be in an arrow. How many
hours, ballpark,
| > > should one expect to transition to a complex plane?
| >
|
| Great feedback guys. Thanks!
|
| > Although the FAA defines complex with a single
definition, in reality
| > there are varying degrees of complexity. The Piper Arrow
is not really
| > all that complex. It flies just like the Cherokee. It
should only take
| > you less than 5 hours. Mooneys and Bonanzas are a lot
more complex, and
| > could take more time.
|
| This comment peaked my interest. IIRC, Bo's have cowl
flaps too. What
| else makes learning to fly something like a Mooney or a Bo
more
| complex?
|
| For what it's worth, I was kicking around the idea of
getting a plane
| this time of year. Insurance wants me to have 100 hours
plus 25
| complex. I was only half seriously looking at a Commander
112. They'll
| happily insure me now but it will be slightly over 4k/yr.
Once I have
| 25 complex, it will drop to 2k/yr. That's assuming I own
it and it's
| worth around 80k. So I figure I'll just build some time in
a rental and
| then look again to find something like an Arrow or a
Mooney.
|
| BTW, do those rates seem about right?
|
| As always, thanks!
|
| Greg
|

john smith · Guest

If you have only been flying single-engine, fixed-gear,
non-high-performance aircraft, you may want to check out the following
sources and read them for reference to help you through the transition.

AvWeb: John Deakin's columns on props, mixture and manifold pressure.

AOPA Aviation Safety Institute: download the flight test guide for the
PA-28. I contains a checkout program and aircraft review.

new_CFI · Guest

"Greg Copeland" <gtcopeland (AT) gmail (DOT) com> wrote in
news:1163877105.216153.154030 (AT) k70g2000cwa (DOT) googlegroups.com:

Robert M. Gary · Guest

john smith wrote:

Ron Natalie · Guest

Jim Macklin wrote:

Jim Macklin · Guest

And so is the Champion Lancer.

"Ron Natalie" <ron (AT) spamcop (DOT) net> wrote in message
news:456120de$0$26914$9a6e19ea (AT) news (DOT) newshosting.com...
| new_CFI wrote:
| > "Greg Copeland" <gtcopeland (AT) gmail (DOT) com> wrote in
| >
news:1163877105.216153.154030 (AT) k70g2000cwa (DOT) googlegroups.com:
| >
| >> I'm at 95 hours and am wanting to transition to a
complex plane. I
| >> expect I will initially be in an arrow. How many
hours, ballpark,
| >> should one expect to transition to a complex plane?
| >>
| >
| > if your intrested in a multi engine rating, you could do
that. I dont know
| > of any multi's that are not complex (dosent meen it
dosent exist). you
| > will get your complex endorsement during that training.
A multi add on
| > takes about 15 hours.
|
| 336 was a non-complex multi.