AirTalk.org Aviation discussions newsgroups   Archives   FAQ   Search   Memberlist   Usergroups   Register   Profile   Log in to check your private messages   Log in  UK CAA extends GPS Non-Precision Approach trial          AirTalk.org Forum Index -> Aberdeen Airport View previous topic :: View next topic   Author Message Jim Mason Guest Posted: Wed Sep 20, 2006 3:05 pm    Post subject: UK CAA extends GPS Non-Precision Approach trial UK CAA extends GPS Non-Precision Approach trial Date: 20 September 2006 The UK Civil Aviation Authority (CAA) has announced a short extension to the current trial of Global Positioning System (GPS) approaches for general aviation aircraft at six UK airports. The trial will now end on 31 December 2006. Following the end of the trial the data will be analysed by researchers and the CAA hopes to be in a position to approve the use of GPS for non- precision approaches in the summer of 2007. Ron Elder, Head of the CAA?s Safety Regulation Group?s Licensing Standards Division, said: ?Bearing in mind that this is something the GA community asked us to look at we had hoped that more people would take part in the trial. Over 1,700 pilots could fly the approaches but few completed forms have been submitted. ?Of the 100 pilots that have registered 47 have flown the approaches but only 26 of these have completed the feedback information. We hope that the extra time will allow such pilots to submit the information, which will be vitally important.? Several issues have been raised by pilots as a result of flying the approaches. These include: · Lack of familiarity with the equipment - one of the clearest early signals from the feedback received so far is lack of familiarity with the equipment and the need for some sort of training. · Confusion over procedure representation and distance to runway during the final approach - many pilots report difficulty with orientation from one track to the next and confusion over the display of distance to run to intermediate step-down fixes, as opposed to the runway threshold, during the final approach. These comments have significant implications for the development of human factors issues and training guidance. Further feedback and recommendations, particularly on these issues, is encouraged. Ron Elder added: ?These comments highlight the importance of the trial and the need for more data.? On the choice of aerodromes and restriction of the trial to UK registered aircraft, Ron Elder said: ?The aerodromes participating in the trial were selected for their spread of geographical location and mix of traffic. The decision to allow only UK registered aircraft to fly the approaches was driven by the need to ensure pilots are properly licensed, that the approaches would be flown in VMC only, and to reduce liability issues for all parties.? For media enquiries contact Jonathan Nicholson on 020 7453 6027. Notes for Editors: UK CAA licensed pilots flying UK registered aircraft fitted with GPS equipment that meets the requirements of Aeronautical Information Circular (AIC) yellow 205 for Non-Precision Approach (NPA) operations are invited to take part in the trial. For reasons of safety the trial approaches are only to be flown in good visibility. The six participating airports, for which GPS NPA procedures have been designed, are Blackpool, Durham Tees Valley, Exeter, Gloucestershire, Inverness and Shoreham. Immediately after flight, pilots should submit reports on a special discrete website for analysis. These reports will not be seen by the CAA but will be managed independently by Leeds University and Imperial College, London. Further information, including the necessary briefings to take part in the trial, may be obtained from UK Aeronautical Information Package (AIP) Supplement and AIC number 50 (yellow 205) ?UK Trial of RNAV (GNSS) Instrument Approach Procedures? at www.ais.org.uk. Pilots can log on to www.gpstrials.leeds.ac.uk to register their participation in the trials. GPS is a satellite positioning system owned by the United States Department of Defense for use on land, sea and in the air; and it is freely available to all classes of users. It is a major component of the Global Navigation Satellite System (GNSS). GPS NPA operations are in use in other states; however the purpose of the CAA trials is to determine the safety aspect specific to the UK aviation environment. Safety will be maintained throughout the trial by ensuring that flights are conducted in visual meteorological conditions (VMC). The CAA is the UK?s independent aviation regulator, with all civil aviation regulatory functions (economic regulation, airspace policy, safety regulation and consumer protection) integrated in a single specialist body. -- Remove `spamtrapped` to reply off-list http://jim-mason.fotopic.net/c162491.html Back to top John Dundas Guest Posted: Wed Sep 20, 2006 5:41 pm    Post subject: Re: UK CAA extends GPS Non-Precision Approach trial "Jim Mason" <jim.mason (AT) spamtrappedukonline (DOT) co.uk> wrote in message news:MPG.1f7b22c43da985bc989cfc (AT) news (DOT) individual.net... UK CAA extends GPS Non-Precision Approach trial Date: 20 September 2006 The UK Civil Aviation Authority (CAA) has announced a short extension to the current trial of Global Positioning System (GPS) approaches for general aviation aircraft at six UK airports. The trial will now end on 31 December 2006. Following the end of the trial the data will be analysed by researchers and the CAA hopes to be in a position to approve the use of GPS for non- precision approaches in the summer of 2007. Hi The CAA are playing a very dangerous game with using GPS for approaches. As long as there is a backup facility then they should be fine but it would so easy to jam the GPS Here is a link to an article that was posted in 2003. " Government officials and communications experts are assessing the public safety and security implications of a newly posted online article that provides directions for making cheap devices to jam Global Positioning System signals. Information in the article, in the current issue of an online hacker magazine called Phrack, potentially puts at risk GPS devices used for commercial navigation and military operations purposes, authorities said. " http://www.computerworld.com/securitytopics/security/story/0,10801,77723,00.html " Back to top Mike Guest Posted: Wed Sep 20, 2006 8:14 pm    Post subject: Re: UK CAA extends GPS Non-Precision Approach trial John Dundas wrote: Quote: Hi The CAA are playing a very dangerous game with using GPS for approaches. As long as there is a backup facility then they should be fine but it would so easy to jam the GPS Here is a link to an article that was posted in 2003. " Government officials and communications experts are assessing the public safety and security implications of a newly posted online article that provides directions for making cheap devices to jam Global Positioning System signals. Information in the article, in the current issue of an online hacker magazine called Phrack, potentially puts at risk GPS devices used for commercial navigation and military operations purposes, authorities said. " http://www.computerworld.com/securitytopics/security/story/0,10801,77723,00.html " John I work at sea and have been using DGPS since 1990 for positioning and for input to ships Dynamic Positioning Systems. (DP). The DP system controls the ships thrusters, holding the vessel in position at the required point or it can be navigated along a line. The most usual use it to stay in one place during, for example, ROV, Diving, Pipe-lay and Drilling operations. The DP uses reference systems to position the vessel. Prior to GPS the most common references were Acoustic (Simrad USBL), Artemis (short range and bearing radio positioning system) and Taut wire. With Taut wire a clump weight is lowered to the seabed on a wire. The length of wire and the angle is measured and hence you can work out the movement of the ship. Acoustic systems interrogate a transponder on the seabed. The time for the sound to come back from the beacon is measured and the distance computed using the known speed of sound. The hard part is working out the angles. There is a minimum of four receivers in the head; the difference in phase between the signals at each receiver is used to compute the angles. Taut wire works well to around 300 meters water depth. Acoustic systems, depends on the type and method. I don't want to confuse you with all the different methods. Since around 1990 vessels have been using DGPS as a reference. Normally two DGPS are used. This has revolutionised the Oil and Gas industry. Without GPS we would not be able to operate in deep water locations, we regularly work in 2000 metres. As well as working in deep water, vessels weather windows can be increased, as GPS will keep the vessel in position longer when the weather deteriorates. Acoustic and Taut wire systems don't work so well when there is a lot of movement or problems with aeration under the ship. Anyway the GPS systems are very reliable. During a project in the Black Sea we installed two pipelines, taking around 8 months. The vessel was held in position throughout the job on DGPS. We were working in 2100metres and had no other references. However you are right there can be problems with interference, especially with the differential signals. In the case of an aircraft there would have to be systems built in to take this into account. This would mean using an alternative reference or pilot flying manual. I would think Jamming would be OK. It just won't work. Galileo is also coming online in a few years. This should be a bit better than GPS especially in stand-alone mode. I don't know much about Galileo. As I see it, it will be getting people confident in the system and able to operate it. However if you can fly a plane and use the systems in place as is. GPS will be a peace of piss. Mike Back to top Jim Mason Guest Posted: Wed Sep 20, 2006 9:06 pm    Post subject: Re: UK CAA extends GPS Non-Precision Approach trial In article <1158765275.310135.327430 (AT) b28g2000cwb (DOT) googlegroups.com>, travel.logue (AT) ntlworld (DOT) com says... Quote: John Dundas wrote: Hi The CAA are playing a very dangerous game with using GPS for approaches. As long as there is a backup facility then they should be fine but it would so easy to jam the GPS As I see it, it will be getting people confident in the system and able to operate it. However if you can fly a plane and use the systems in place as is. GPS will be a peace of piss. Thanks for the excellent info Mike. Jim -- Remove `spamtrapped` to reply off-list http://jim-mason.fotopic.net/c162491.html Back to top Jim Mason Guest Posted: Wed Sep 20, 2006 9:08 pm    Post subject: Re: UK CAA extends GPS Non-Precision Approach trial In article <Bf2dndQNINaQqozYRVnyuQ (AT) bt (DOT) com>, j.m.dundas11111111111ssss (AT) btinternet (DOT) com says... Quote: "Jim Mason" <jim.mason (AT) spamtrappedukonline (DOT) co.uk> wrote in message news:MPG.1f7b22c43da985bc989cfc (AT) news (DOT) individual.net... UK CAA extends GPS Non-Precision Approach trial Date: 20 September 2006 The UK Civil Aviation Authority (CAA) has announced a short extension to the current trial of Global Positioning System (GPS) approaches for general aviation aircraft at six UK airports. The trial will now end on 31 December 2006. Following the end of the trial the data will be analysed by researchers and the CAA hopes to be in a position to approve the use of GPS for non- precision approaches in the summer of 2007. Hi The CAA are playing a very dangerous game with using GPS for approaches. As long as there is a backup facility then they should be fine but it would so easy to jam the GPS GPS is no more or less susceptible to jamming than existing radio and radar based positioning systems - if fact probably much less so. Jim -- Remove `spamtrapped` to reply off-list http://jim-mason.fotopic.net/c162491.html Back to top GLAGAZ Guest Posted: Wed Sep 20, 2006 9:11 pm    Post subject: Re: UK CAA extends GPS Non-Precision Approach trial Jim Mason wrote: Quote: In article <Bf2dndQNINaQqozYRVnyuQ (AT) bt (DOT) com>, j.m.dundas11111111111ssss (AT) btinternet (DOT) com says... "Jim Mason" <jim.mason (AT) spamtrappedukonline (DOT) co.uk> wrote in message news:MPG.1f7b22c43da985bc989cfc (AT) news (DOT) individual.net... UK CAA extends GPS Non-Precision Approach trial Date: 20 September 2006 The UK Civil Aviation Authority (CAA) has announced a short extension to the current trial of Global Positioning System (GPS) approaches for general aviation aircraft at six UK airports. The trial will now end on 31 December 2006. Following the end of the trial the data will be analysed by researchers and the CAA hopes to be in a position to approve the use of GPS for non- precision approaches in the summer of 2007. Hi The CAA are playing a very dangerous game with using GPS for approaches. As long as there is a backup facility then they should be fine but it would so easy to jam the GPS GPS is no more or less susceptible to jamming than existing radio and radar based positioning systems - if fact probably much less so. Jim Even so, never depend entirely on GPS.....Those dodgy Americans can turn it off at the flick of a switch (or two..) :P Gaz Back to top Jim Mason Guest Posted: Wed Sep 20, 2006 9:15 pm    Post subject: Re: UK CAA extends GPS Non-Precision Approach trial In article <1158768715.498878.113260 (AT) i3g2000cwc (DOT) googlegroups.com>, spazgaz (AT) hotmail (DOT) com says... Quote: Jim Mason wrote: In article <Bf2dndQNINaQqozYRVnyuQ (AT) bt (DOT) com>, j.m.dundas11111111111ssss (AT) btinternet (DOT) com says... "Jim Mason" <jim.mason (AT) spamtrappedukonline (DOT) co.uk> wrote in message news:MPG.1f7b22c43da985bc989cfc (AT) news (DOT) individual.net... UK CAA extends GPS Non-Precision Approach trial Date: 20 September 2006 The UK Civil Aviation Authority (CAA) has announced a short extension to the current trial of Global Positioning System (GPS) approaches for general aviation aircraft at six UK airports. The trial will now end on 31 December 2006. Following the end of the trial the data will be analysed by researchers and the CAA hopes to be in a position to approve the use of GPS for non- precision approaches in the summer of 2007. Hi The CAA are playing a very dangerous game with using GPS for approaches. As long as there is a backup facility then they should be fine but it would so easy to jam the GPS GPS is no more or less susceptible to jamming than existing radio and radar based positioning systems - if fact probably much less so. Jim Even so, never depend entirely on GPS.....Those dodgy Americans can turn it off at the flick of a switch (or two..) Indeed - hence the urgency to get a European system established! Jim -- Remove `spamtrapped` to reply off-list http://jim-mason.fotopic.net/c162491.html Back to top Mike Guest Posted: Wed Sep 20, 2006 9:24 pm    Post subject: Re: UK CAA extends GPS Non-Precision Approach trial Jim Mason wrote: Quote: GPS is no more or less susceptible to jamming than existing radio and radar based positioning systems - if fact probably much less so. Jim -- Remove `spamtrapped` to reply off-list http://jim-mason.fotopic.net/c162491.html Yes, I meant to mention that fact. Mike Back to top Mike Guest Posted: Wed Sep 20, 2006 9:32 pm    Post subject: Re: UK CAA extends GPS Non-Precision Approach trial GLAGAZ wrote: Quote: Even so, never depend entirely on GPS.....Those dodgy Americans can turn it off at the flick of a switch (or two..) :P Gaz With Galileo coming in the future there will be less dependence on GPS. We will see sat receivers which will be able to combine both systems. At present we have receivers which use both GPS and GLONASS (Russian System). GLONASS isn't that great but it gives some redundancy in areas where GPS isn't so well covered. Mike Back to top Mike Guest Posted: Wed Sep 20, 2006 10:50 pm    Post subject: Re: UK CAA extends GPS Non-Precision Approach trial Mike wrote: Quote: As I see it, it will be getting people confident in the system and able to operate it. However if you can fly a plane and use the systems in place as is. GPS will be a peace of piss. Mike Should read a piece of piss, rather than a peace of piss or should it.? A piece of piss in peace time any way. Maybe not so good if the Yanks re-commence Selective Availability. Bring on Galileo. 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