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High Performance Single Engine Choices
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O. Sami Saydjari
Guest





PostPosted: Mon Dec 08, 2003 12:42 am    Post subject: High Performance Single Engine Choices Reply with quote



Folks, I am a first-time aircraft buyer. I have a general idea of the
type of aircraft I want, but am having trouble narrowing the list down.
Here is my general list of wants/needs:

1. Fast: >160 kts
2. Price range: $75K-$120K
3. Four Seater
4. Range: >800nm
5. Useful Payload (with full fuel); > 650lbs
6. Retains its value well over time
7. Reliable: Engine TBO of 2000 hrs, good saftey record
8. Insurable for a pilot with only 350 hrs PIC experience (no HP/complex
time)


I have been thinking about a Piper Comanche 260 and a Piper Turbo Arrow
III/IV. I was considering a Mooney M20J, but they feel a little cramped
in the cabin to me. What I am looking for is the best dollars/kts
airplane (what we call price/performance in the computer biz) that meets
the above requirements. I would really appreciate suggestions and advice.

-Sami



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Guy Byars
Guest





PostPosted: Mon Dec 08, 2003 1:40 am    Post subject: Re: High Performance Single Engine Choices Reply with quote



Give up the 160kt requirement for a few hundred hours and go with a good
Cessna 182 Skylane. You can count on 130kts with it and it meets all your
other requirements. After more experience, then go with something with
higher performance.

GB


"O. Sami Saydjari" <ssaydjari (AT) hotmail (DOT) com> wrote

Quote:
Folks, I am a first-time aircraft buyer. I have a general idea of the
type of aircraft I want, but am having trouble narrowing the list down.
Here is my general list of wants/needs:

1. Fast: >160 kts
2. Price range: $75K-$120K
3. Four Seater
4. Range: >800nm
5. Useful Payload (with full fuel); > 650lbs
6. Retains its value well over time
7. Reliable: Engine TBO of 2000 hrs, good saftey record
8. Insurable for a pilot with only 350 hrs PIC experience (no HP/complex
time)


I have been thinking about a Piper Comanche 260 and a Piper Turbo Arrow
III/IV. I was considering a Mooney M20J, but they feel a little cramped
in the cabin to me. What I am looking for is the best dollars/kts
airplane (what we call price/performance in the computer biz) that meets
the above requirements. I would really appreciate suggestions and advice.

-Sami




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EDR
Guest





PostPosted: Mon Dec 08, 2003 2:32 am    Post subject: Re: High Performance Single Engine Choices Reply with quote

In article <3FD3C8F3.1090800 (AT) hotmail (DOT) com>, O. Sami Saydjari
<ssaydjari (AT) hotmail (DOT) com> wrote:

Quote:
I have been thinking about a Piper Comanche 260 and a Piper Turbo Arrow
III/IV.

The Arrow is a three adult/two adult-two child airplane.

Look at a Bonanza.

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Jay Honeck
Guest





PostPosted: Mon Dec 08, 2003 2:49 am    Post subject: Re: High Performance Single Engine Choices Reply with quote

Well, Sami, I've got ya covered on everything except the 160 knots. Our
Cherokee 235 Pathfinder has:

Quote:
1. Fast: >160 kts

We'll do 140 knots all day long, with fixed gear. (Read: Cheaper annual
inspections.)

Quote:
2. Price range: $75K-$120K

We bought ours for $74K, and put in a new engine. With the new interior,
new engine, and a raft of other stuff, it's in the $100K range now. (But
it's not for sale... ;-)

Quote:
3. Four Seater

Yep. Four REAL, 200+ pound, 6 foot tall people.

Quote:
4. Range: >800nm

Try 1100+ nm. Farther, if you throttle back, and your bladder can stand
it.

Quote:
5. Useful Payload (with full fuel); > 650lbs

1460 pounds total. 956 pounds useful, with 84 gallons of fuel on board.

Quote:
6. Retains its value well over time

Late model Cherokee 235s sell themselves.

Quote:
7. Reliable: Engine TBO of 2000 hrs, good saftey record

Low compression Lycoming O-540, carbureted. Burns car gas. Almost
bulletproof.

Quote:
8. Insurable for a pilot with only 350 hrs PIC experience (no HP/complex
time)

Yep.

I'd say if you can bend your mission parameters on the speed required, you
won't find a better aircraft than the post-1972 Cherokee 235 (known
variously as the "Charger", "Pathfinder", and "Dakota", depending on the
year.) That's the year they stretched the fuselage 5 inches, making all
that horsepower usable.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"



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Ben Jackson
Guest





PostPosted: Mon Dec 08, 2003 3:07 am    Post subject: Re: High Performance Single Engine Choices Reply with quote

In article <3FD3C8F3.1090800 (AT) hotmail (DOT) com>,
O. Sami Saydjari <ssaydjari_REMOVE_ME (AT) hotmail (DOT) com> wrote:
Quote:
8. Insurable for a pilot with only 350 hrs PIC experience (no HP/complex
time)

You can get insurance with no HP/complex time, but you'll have to fly
more dual before you can solo.

Quote:
I have been thinking about a Piper Comanche 260 and a Piper Turbo Arrow
III/IV. I was considering a Mooney M20J, but they feel a little cramped

Where are you located? Have you flown the Comanche or the Arrow?

--
Ben Jackson
<ben (AT) ben (DOT) com>
http://www.ben.com/

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O. Sami Saydjari
Guest





PostPosted: Mon Dec 08, 2003 5:41 am    Post subject: Re: High Performance Single Engine Choices Reply with quote



Ben Jackson wrote:

Quote:
In article <3FD3C8F3.1090800 (AT) hotmail (DOT) com>,
O. Sami Saydjari <ssaydjari_REMOVE_ME (AT) hotmail (DOT) com> wrote:

8. Insurable for a pilot with only 350 hrs PIC experience (no HP/complex
time)


You can get insurance with no HP/complex time, but you'll have to fly
more dual before you can solo.


Yes, I have quotes on both a Mooney 201 and a Comanche 260. It is just
that they prefer that low-time pilots not go right to a very high
performance aircraft, like a Mooney TLS.


Quote:


I have been thinking about a Piper Comanche 260 and a Piper Turbo Arrow
III/IV. I was considering a Mooney M20J, but they feel a little cramped


Where are you located? Have you flown the Comanche or the Arrow?


Wisconsin. I have flown a Comanche 260 and a Mooney 201. I like them
both in terms of how they fly. I have not yet had a chance to fly an Arrow.


Quote:




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O. Sami Saydjari
Guest





PostPosted: Mon Dec 08, 2003 6:01 am    Post subject: Re: High Performance Single Engine Choices Reply with quote

Just out of curiosity, what is the fastest single-engine aircraft
available and how fast does it go? -Sami

O. Sami Saydjari wrote:

Quote:
Folks, I am a first-time aircraft buyer. I have a general idea of the
type of aircraft I want, but am having trouble narrowing the list down.
Here is my general list of wants/needs:

1. Fast: >160 kts
2. Price range: $75K-$120K
3. Four Seater
4. Range: >800nm
5. Useful Payload (with full fuel); > 650lbs
6. Retains its value well over time
7. Reliable: Engine TBO of 2000 hrs, good saftey record
8. Insurable for a pilot with only 350 hrs PIC experience (no HP/complex
time)


I have been thinking about a Piper Comanche 260 and a Piper Turbo Arrow
III/IV. I was considering a Mooney M20J, but they feel a little cramped
in the cabin to me. What I am looking for is the best dollars/kts
airplane (what we call price/performance in the computer biz) that meets
the above requirements. I would really appreciate suggestions and advice.

-Sami



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Jeff
Guest





PostPosted: Mon Dec 08, 2003 6:19 am    Post subject: Re: High Performance Single Engine Choices Reply with quote

A bonanza is not in the price range he is looking at. unles he gets a 1947
one.


EDR wrote:

Quote:
In article <3FD3C8F3.1090800 (AT) hotmail (DOT) com>, O. Sami Saydjari
[email]ssaydjari (AT) hotmail (DOT) com[/email]> wrote:

I have been thinking about a Piper Comanche 260 and a Piper Turbo Arrow
III/IV.

The Arrow is a three adult/two adult-two child airplane.

Look at a Bonanza.


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Michael 182
Guest





PostPosted: Mon Dec 08, 2003 6:24 am    Post subject: Re: High Performance Single Engine Choices Reply with quote

Piston - maybe a Lancair IVP - 287 knots
Turboprop - maybe a Lancair IVP with a Propjet conversion - 330 knots
Jet - ????


An F-106 Delta Dart flew 1526 mph over an 11 mile course way back in 1959
http://www.f-106deltadart.com/speedrecord.htm


"O. Sami Saydjari" <ssaydjari (AT) hotmail (DOT) com> wrote

Quote:
Just out of curiosity, what is the fastest single-engine aircraft
available and how fast does it go? -Sami



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Jeff
Guest





PostPosted: Mon Dec 08, 2003 6:26 am    Post subject: Re: High Performance Single Engine Choices Reply with quote

what I would do is call my insurance company with the types of planes you
want, ask them ya or nay on them and a general price range for insurance on
each of them. Depending on your insurance company, you will see they wont
insure some planes for you, they may also ask you, if you dont have it yet, to
get your instrument rating. Talking to them may help you narrow down what your
wanting really quick :)


"O. Sami Saydjari" wrote:

Quote:
Folks, I am a first-time aircraft buyer. I have a general idea of the
type of aircraft I want, but am having trouble narrowing the list down.
Here is my general list of wants/needs:

1. Fast: >160 kts
2. Price range: $75K-$120K
3. Four Seater
4. Range: >800nm
5. Useful Payload (with full fuel); > 650lbs
6. Retains its value well over time
7. Reliable: Engine TBO of 2000 hrs, good saftey record
8. Insurable for a pilot with only 350 hrs PIC experience (no HP/complex
time)

I have been thinking about a Piper Comanche 260 and a Piper Turbo Arrow
III/IV. I was considering a Mooney M20J, but they feel a little cramped
in the cabin to me. What I am looking for is the best dollars/kts
airplane (what we call price/performance in the computer biz) that meets
the above requirements. I would really appreciate suggestions and advice.

-Sami


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Jeff
Guest





PostPosted: Mon Dec 08, 2003 6:33 am    Post subject: Re: High Performance Single Engine Choices Reply with quote

your going to get alot of input on this one.
I know the other day when I flew back from carlsbad california, center called
out a mooney to me that was doing 200 kts. Dont know what kind, never saw him
either. I know he was at 11,000 ft is all. But the comanche 400 and some
mooney's push the 200 kt area. Cirrus SR22 is like 185 kts.

I skipped all the war birds like the P-51 ... the fastest single engine plane is
the one who broke the 500 MPH mark at the last air race in Reno, Nv. I think it
was a P-51.

"O. Sami Saydjari" wrote:

Quote:
Just out of curiosity, what is the fastest single-engine aircraft
available and how fast does it go? -Sami

O. Sami Saydjari wrote:

Folks, I am a first-time aircraft buyer. I have a general idea of the
type of aircraft I want, but am having trouble narrowing the list down.
Here is my general list of wants/needs:

1. Fast: >160 kts
2. Price range: $75K-$120K
3. Four Seater
4. Range: >800nm
5. Useful Payload (with full fuel); > 650lbs
6. Retains its value well over time
7. Reliable: Engine TBO of 2000 hrs, good saftey record
8. Insurable for a pilot with only 350 hrs PIC experience (no HP/complex
time)


I have been thinking about a Piper Comanche 260 and a Piper Turbo Arrow
III/IV. I was considering a Mooney M20J, but they feel a little cramped
in the cabin to me. What I am looking for is the best dollars/kts
airplane (what we call price/performance in the computer biz) that meets
the above requirements. I would really appreciate suggestions and advice.

-Sami



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Jeff
Guest





PostPosted: Mon Dec 08, 2003 6:35 am    Post subject: Re: High Performance Single Engine Choices Reply with quote

Did they say they would not insure those for you or did they price them out of
your range or what your wanting to pay for insurance?

"O. Sami Saydjari" wrote:olo.

Quote:

Yes, I have quotes on both a Mooney 201 and a Comanche 260. It is just
that they prefer that low-time pilots not go right to a very high
performance aircraft, like a Mooney TLS.


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O. Sami Saydjari
Guest





PostPosted: Mon Dec 08, 2003 1:50 pm    Post subject: Re: High Performance Single Engine Choices Reply with quote

They said tey would insure them and the price range seem pretty
reasonable to me. -sami

Jeff wrote:

Quote:
Did they say they would not insure those for you or did they price them out of
your range or what your wanting to pay for insurance?

"O. Sami Saydjari" wrote:olo.


Yes, I have quotes on both a Mooney 201 and a Comanche 260. It is just
that they prefer that low-time pilots not go right to a very high
performance aircraft, like a Mooney TLS.




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Ron Natalie
Guest





PostPosted: Mon Dec 08, 2003 1:57 pm    Post subject: Re: High Performance Single Engine Choices Reply with quote


"Jeff" <jeff (AT) turboarrow3 (DOT) com> wrote

Quote:
A bonanza is not in the price range he is looking at. unles he gets a 1947
one.

And a 225 bo would not go 160+ knots.




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Nathan Young
Guest





PostPosted: Mon Dec 08, 2003 2:16 pm    Post subject: Re: High Performance Single Engine Choices Reply with quote

"O. Sami Saydjari" <ssaydjari (AT) hotmail (DOT) com> wrote

Quote:
Just out of curiosity, what is the fastest single-engine aircraft
available and how fast does it go? -Sami

If you will consider experimentals, the Lancair IV-P is the king.
4-seats, 330mph TAS, pressurized. Price tag is $350-500k depending on
options.

Fastest production is probably the Mooney 252 series (now called
TLS/Bravo). These will do 220 KTAS. For new planes, the pricetag is
similar to the Lancair, although an older 252 would be $150k+.

An early 1980 A36 TC or turbonormalized will do 200 kts and will have
the six seats. Price is around $200k.

Keep in mind these are not normal operating speeds, but maximum cruise
speeds. You probably won't make it to 2000hrs after overhaul if you
run the engine at 75% or greater power required to achieve these
speeds.

For the $75-120k pricerange you mentioned, an N thru-V model V35
Bonanza would fit your requirements.

-Nathan

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