AirTalk.org Aviation discussions newsgroups   Archives   FAQ   Search   Memberlist   Usergroups   Register   Profile   Log in to check your private messages   Log in  GPS vs. map          AirTalk.org Forum Index -> Aviators (General Discussions) View previous topic :: View next topic   Author Message DeltaDeltaDelta Guest Posted: Sun Jul 27, 2003 5:29 pm    Post subject: GPS vs. map Do you people with GPS units (either panel mounted or portable) use only them when you fly, or do you plan the same route on a map as well and plot your position in flight, for backup in case the unit looses pickup? I've recently seen the SR-22 panel and some Lancair models and it got me wondering whether aside from all these hi-tech gadgets people still use the good old roadmap. Triple Delta Back to top ArtP Guest Posted: Sun Jul 27, 2003 6:05 pm    Post subject: Re: GPS vs. map On Sun, 27 Jul 2003 19:29:52 +0200, "DeltaDeltaDelta" <boran.pivcic (AT) zg (DOT) htnet.hr> wrote: When I fly, I only use the charts (Airchart book) as a lap board to hold my sticky notes. The only reason I even bother is incase ATC changes my clearance. I get obstacle data from my MFD, my backup Airmap, and it will soon be available in my GNS430. Back to top JerryK Guest Posted: Sun Jul 27, 2003 6:17 pm    Post subject: Re: GPS vs. map I keep a section, Wac, or IFR enroute chart on my lap as I fly along. I also tune VOR's and estimate time and distance between cities to ensure I am staying awake and aware. jerry Back to top Thomas Pappano Guest Posted: Sun Jul 27, 2003 7:56 pm    Post subject: Re: GPS vs. map "DeltaDeltaDelta" <boran.pivcic (AT) zg (DOT) htnet.hr> wrote Quote: Do you people with GPS units (either panel mounted or portable) use only them when you fly, or do you plan the same route on a map as well and plot your position in flight, for backup in case the unit looses pickup? I've recently seen the SR-22 panel and some Lancair models and it got me wondering whether aside from all these hi-tech gadgets people still use the good old roadmap. Triple Delta I always use charts. I usually fly IFR and use low alt enroute charts. A trip usually takes 1 to 3 charts that I prefold into 11x11 squares with my route showing, and clip them together in order of use in a neat package that lays on my lap. The portable GPS sits on top of them, serving also as a paperweight. I usually also have sectionals in the flight bag. Tom Pappano, PP-ASEL-IA Back to top Jeff Guest Posted: Mon Jul 28, 2003 3:44 am    Post subject: Re: GPS vs. map I plan my flight on my handheld GPS, then lay it out on a sectional, while flying, I track myself on the map and make sure I am whereI think I am. The map has more detail then the handheld gps I use (garmin 295), so if I have a problem I know where I am and whats under me. I do this when flying over clouds and cant see the ground, I look at the map to see whats under the layer. DeltaDeltaDelta wrote: Quote: Do you people with GPS units (either panel mounted or portable) use only them when you fly, or do you plan the same route on a map as well and plot your position in flight, for backup in case the unit looses pickup? I've recently seen the SR-22 panel and some Lancair models and it got me wondering whether aside from all these hi-tech gadgets people still use the good old roadmap. Triple Delta Back to top Jeff Guest Posted: Mon Jul 28, 2003 3:46 am    Post subject: Re: GPS vs. map I also tune VOR's and compare them to my GPS, but I think thats just to keep me busy, I let the auto pilot fly the plane most of the time so I have to have other things to do to keep my mind occupied :) JerryK wrote: Quote: I keep a section, Wac, or IFR enroute chart on my lap as I fly along. I also tune VOR's and estimate time and distance between cities to ensure I am staying awake and aware. jerry Back to top Teacherjh Guest Posted: Mon Jul 28, 2003 4:47 am    Post subject: Re: GPS vs. map I plan on charts, and use them in the plane. I also hand fly. GPS is nice, but I like having the paper charts. Jose (for Email, make the obvious changes in my address) Back to top Cub Driver Guest Posted: Mon Jul 28, 2003 10:27 am    Post subject: Re: GPS vs. map Quote: Do you people with GPS units (either panel mounted or portable) use only them when you fly, or do you plan the same route on a map as well and plot your position in flight, for backup in case the unit looses pickup? I've I draw the route on the chart. Given the endurance of the Cub (12 gallons, 4.2 GPH) I'm simply not traveling far enough to use checkpoints. I always know where I am on the chart, and I have a decision point of one hour, with due allowance for the wind. The plane has no Hobbs meter, and rather than using the tach as most people do, I write the engine-on time on the back of an obsolete business card, stuck up under the top clip of the kneeboard. That's the only paperwork I do. all the best -- Dan Ford email: www.danford.net/letters.htm#9 see the Warbird's Forum at http://www.danford.net/index.htm Vietnam | Flying Tigers | Pacific War | Brewster Buffalo | Piper Cub Back to top Paul Guest Posted: Mon Jul 28, 2003 2:53 pm    Post subject: Re: GPS vs. map A GPS can fail---been there done that---. I have a map open to my route and cross check often enough that I know where to look on the map if my GPS goes T.U. Cheers: Paul NC2273H " Back to top Peter R. Guest Posted: Mon Jul 28, 2003 4:04 pm    Post subject: Re: GPS vs. map Paul (Nowhere (AT) nospam (DOT) com) wrote: Quote: A GPS can fail---been there done that---. I have a map open to my route and cross check often enough that I know where to look on the map if my GPS goes T.U. How GPS's fail may be a logical question by those who read your comments. Several weeks ago my panel mounted, IFR-certified GPS temporarily failed due to my own bone-headed mistake. At 9,500ft I opened a very soft plastic bottle of water without allowing it to slowly equalize first. The damn thing sprayed water all over my avionics console, temporarily shorting out the MSG button on the GPS. Every time I attempted to place the unit in the Flight Plan chapter, it went right back to the message display. Fortunately we had been following our flight's progress on our IFR low- altitude charts that were opened in our laps so switching to VOR navigation was seamless. -- Peter Back to top Ronald Gardner Guest Posted: Tue Jul 29, 2003 12:21 am    Post subject: Re: GPS vs. map Even if VFR a map is a must, never trust any electronic gadget 100%. Even with redundant systems there is a potential loss of electrical power. DeltaDeltaDelta wrote: Quote: Do you people with GPS units (either panel mounted or portable) use only them when you fly, or do you plan the same route on a map as well and plot your position in flight, for backup in case the unit looses pickup? I've recently seen the SR-22 panel and some Lancair models and it got me wondering whether aside from all these hi-tech gadgets people still use the good old roadmap. Triple Delta Back to top altekocker Guest Posted: Tue Jul 29, 2003 1:14 am    Post subject: Re: GPS vs. map Amen. I had an alternator failure a couple of years back and the first of the electronics to bug out was the GPS. I was very happy to have all the usual pilotage tools in my lap and properly marked up. I completed the flight with no functioning radios. Seth Comanche N8100R "Sydney Hoeltzli" <last_name (AT) swbell (DOT) net> wrote Quote: DeltaDeltaDelta wrote: Do you people with GPS units (either panel mounted or portable) use only them when you fly, or do you plan the same route on a map as well and plot your position in flight, for backup in case the unit looses pickup? It's not just "for backup in case the unit loses pickup". Today, the vast majority of GPS units in use lack a vital ingredient for proper flight planning: **TERRAIN INFORMATION** Certain accidents used to be described as having "the Mark of Loran Guided Death" These are accidents where a plane, on the exact centerline of a direct route from "here" to "there", flew into terrain or obstructions in crappy wx. Often terrain or obstructions which they could have avoided, had they only perused a chart and observed that detouring 3 miles east would allow them to follow a road through a valley. The phrase could be updated to "the Mark of GPS-Guided Death". My point is: *safe flight is a 4 dimensional problem *most GPS units only address 3 of these 4 dimensions *unless you're flying with a GPS/Moving map system which addresses all 4, better keep your charts and know where you are and what the terrain along your route looks like *even if you are, if the power fails or signal is lost, what then? Sydney (1 panel-mount GPS, 1 handheld GPS, 2 full sets of charts with a courseline on at least 1 of them) Back to top Sydney Hoeltzli Guest Posted: Tue Jul 29, 2003 1:44 am    Post subject: Re: GPS vs. map Peter R. wrote: Quote: At 9,500ft I opened a very soft plastic bottle of water without allowing it to slowly equalize first. The damn thing sprayed water all over my avionics console, temporarily shorting out the MSG button on the GPS. Every time I attempted to place the unit in the Flight Plan chapter, it went right back to the message display. LOL! Haven't done that one, but I well remember the time I thought those little boxes of juice would be just the thing for in-flight toddler snacks. Once. Cheers, Sydney Back to top Display posts from previous: All Posts1 Day7 Days2 Weeks1 Month3 Months6 Months1 Year Oldest FirstNewest First         AirTalk.org Forum Index -> Aviators (General Discussions) All times are GMT Page 1 of 1   Jump to: Select a forum Aviation----------------alt.aviationAviation safety EnhancementPlanes, gliders and flying in AustraliaAviation et pilotage (Français)rec.aviationAviation (Aerobatics)Hot air, gas balloons and airshipsHang-gliding, paragliding, foot-launched flightAircraft Design & BuildingInstrument Flight RulesAviation (Classifieds)Military AircraftNaval AviationAviation (Miscellaneous Topics)Owning AirplanesAviators (General Discussions)Aviation related productsAircraft RestorationHelicopters and rotary wing aircraftsFlight SimulationSailplanesAviation (Students)Light aircraftFlying related activities in the UK Airports----------------alt.airportsEdinburgh Airport Glasgow Airport Humberside Airport Luton Airport Aberdeen Airport Glasgow Prestwick Airport  You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2006 phpBB Group SEO toolkit © 2004-2006 webmedic.