AirTalk.org Aviation discussions newsgroups   Archives   FAQ   Search   Memberlist   Usergroups   Register   Profile   Log in to check your private messages   Log in  GPS Interference Testing # 711 reporting          AirTalk.org Forum Index -> Sailplanes View previous topic :: View next topic   Author Message Tomnkeylargo@aol.com Guest Posted: Tue May 24, 2005 12:09 am    Post subject: GPS Interference Testing # 711 reporting I have been told that GPS Interference Testing is taking place. Several folks are reporting a drop in signal which they then lose final glide information. Several of our pilots had seriously intermittant GPS signals on Monday, May 16. Here is an explanation: http://www.navcen.uscg.gov/gps/gpsnotices and http://www.navcen.uscg.gov/gps/gpsnotices/GPS_Interference.pdf Usually the tests are from 8pm-4am on most days for us here in NM. They might only affect us on final glide on a good, long day. Quote: From May 16-21, they are from 4pm-2am....this explains the trouble pilots had yesterday. Quote: From 22 June to 02 July, they will take place from 3pm-1am. So, goe to the above site and check for your area, its possible your area will be affected even if its not listed. Thermal tight, Soar high, fly safe. # 711 reporting Back to top 5Z Guest Posted: Tue May 24, 2005 2:57 am    Post subject: Re: GPS Interference Testing # 711 reporting Looks like weekday soaring along the southern Sierras in CA will be affected in June, July and August. 01-03, 06-10 JUN05 13-17, 20-24 JUN05 27-30 JUN05 06-08, 11-15 JUL05 18-22, 25-29 JUL05 01-05, 08-12 AUG05 15-19, 22-26 AUG05 29-31 AUG05 Times below are local for the above dates 0330-0500 0730-1100 1300-1700 AND 2030-2200 Back to top P. Corbett Guest Posted: Fri May 27, 2005 5:56 am    Post subject: Re: GPS Interference Testing # 711 reporting This schedule will not only have a negative affect on weekday badge and record flying in the affected areas but also on all GPS receivers. This will likey include all handhelds used by hikers and emergency services etc. I thought the GPS system in this country is for public use. Is this program legal? Do we have any recourse? Any thoughts on this? Paul Corbett ZZ Back to top petersmith@soaringmuseum. Guest Posted: Fri May 27, 2005 1:24 pm    Post subject: Re: GPS Interference Testing # 711 reporting GPS is funded by and controlled by the U. S. Department of Defense (DOD). While there are many thousands of civil users of GPS world-wide, the system was designed for and is operated by the U. S. military. IIRC, President Clinton decreed that the GPS system be made available for public use. But that was not its original purpose, nor is it now its first priority. If the DOD wants to take it off line for testing, that's their prerogative. Back to top Marc Ramsey Guest Posted: Fri May 27, 2005 5:27 pm    Post subject: Re: GPS Interference Testing # 711 reporting [email]petersmith (AT) soaringmuseum (DOT) org[/email] wrote: Quote: IIRC, President Clinton decreed that the GPS system be made available for public use. But that was not its original purpose, nor is it now its first priority. If the DOD wants to take it off line for testing, that's their prerogative. I have no time to track down appropriate references, but this is not correct. Part of the negotiation that resulted in the executive order involved the DOD giving up the right to do routine area denial exercises, in exchange for a significant portion of the funding for GPS upgrades being moved to the civilian budget. In particular, "operational" use of GPS for safety critical civilian uses was delayed, in order to provide the military adequate time to develop appropriate jamming technology. That period has been over for a number of years. GPS approaches are in routine use. ADS-B is being deployed nationwide. Cellphone E911 systems are dependent on GPS. Railroad signaling systems are now heavily GPS based. The DOD no longer has the "prerogative" to deny GPS within the US whenever they feel like it. Of course, the US military is no longer accountable to anyone except Donald Rumsfeld, so I don't expect anyone to particularly care, until a GPS-related accident results in a major loss of life. And, people wondered why the Europeans felt the need to build their own civilian positioning system... Back to top Paul Lynch Guest Posted: Fri May 27, 2005 5:33 pm    Post subject: Re: GPS Interference Testing # 711 reporting Ignoring your political rant... The military does occassionally test GPS jammers to test their ability to operate in a GPS jamming environment. Those events are relatively localized and are NOTAM'd events. They are predominantly done at sea so as to disrupt as few as possible, and to a smaller scale in restricted areas where the impact is minimized. "Marc Ramsey" <marc (AT) ranlog (DOT) comREMOVE> wrote Quote: petersmith (AT) soaringmuseum (DOT) org wrote: IIRC, President Clinton decreed that the GPS system be made available for public use. But that was not its original purpose, nor is it now its first priority. If the DOD wants to take it off line for testing, that's their prerogative. I have no time to track down appropriate references, but this is not correct. Part of the negotiation that resulted in the executive order involved the DOD giving up the right to do routine area denial exercises, in exchange for a significant portion of the funding for GPS upgrades being moved to the civilian budget. In particular, "operational" use of GPS for safety critical civilian uses was delayed, in order to provide the military adequate time to develop appropriate jamming technology. That period has been over for a number of years. GPS approaches are in routine use. ADS-B is being deployed nationwide. Cellphone E911 systems are dependent on GPS. Railroad signaling systems are now heavily GPS based. The DOD no longer has the "prerogative" to deny GPS within the US whenever they feel like it. Of course, the US military is no longer accountable to anyone except Donald Rumsfeld, so I don't expect anyone to particularly care, until a GPS-related accident results in a major loss of life. And, people wondered why the Europeans felt the need to build their own civilian positioning system... Back to top Tim Harrison Guest Posted: Sat May 28, 2005 8:12 am    Post subject: Re: GPS Interference Testing # 711 reporting Thank you for this advisory. Can you please tell me how far inside the proclaimed jamming area the pilots, who lost GPS signals, were flying? The published radius from China Lake is approx 180 NM at 15,000ft - a huge area if thinking of the Whites etc. Is it possible that the area is the maximum likely and the real jamming area might be somewhat smaller (and affected by terrain)? Tim <Tomnkeylargo (AT) aol (DOT) com> wrote Quote: I have been told that GPS Interference Testing is taking place. Several folks are reporting a drop in signal which they then lose final glide information. Several of our pilots had seriously intermittant GPS signals on Monday, May 16. Here is an explanation: http://www.navcen.uscg.gov/gps/gpsnotices and http://www.navcen.uscg.gov/gps/gpsnotices/GPS_Interference.pdf Usually the tests are from 8pm-4am on most days for us here in NM. They might only affect us on final glide on a good, long day. From May 16-21, they are from 4pm-2am....this explains the trouble pilots had yesterday. From 22 June to 02 July, they will take place from 3pm-1am. So, goe to the above site and check for your area, its possible your area will be affected even if its not listed. Thermal tight, Soar high, fly safe. # 711 reporting Back to top Tomnkeylargo@aol.com Guest Posted: Sat May 28, 2005 4:30 pm    Post subject: Re: GPS Interference Testing # 711 reporting Folks, read the Web pages I posted when I started this thread. It should answer almost all your questions, and then before you fly, make a call, and check notams, etc. Thermal tight, Soar high, Fly safe. # 711. Back to top hellman@stanford.edu Guest Posted: Sat May 28, 2005 10:01 pm    Post subject: Re: GPS Interference Testing # 711 reporting Has anyone checked with AOPA on this? If the cones of jamming are as large as they post and the test last more than a minute or two, that could be a real safety issue. I suspect though that they post many more hours and days than needed. 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