AirTalk.org Aviation discussions newsgroups   Archives   FAQ   Search   Memberlist   Usergroups   Register   Profile   Log in to check your private messages   Log in  Good Instructors... Goto page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next          AirTalk.org Forum Index -> Aviation (Students) View previous topic :: View next topic   Author Message doc Guest Posted: Mon Nov 08, 2004 3:34 pm    Post subject: Good Instructors... are awfully hard to find. I just "interviewed" a couple at local flight schools by taking little flights with them, ostensibly just for rust removal. There's no way I'd hire them for instrument training. It is tough to find an instructor who really knows his stuff, is a good teacher and is congenial enough that I'd be willing to spend 10's of hours in a cockpit with him/her. Just an observation. I don't expect anyone to have a solution. Back to top Dudley Henriques Guest Posted: Mon Nov 08, 2004 4:46 pm    Post subject: Re: Good Instructors... "doc" <doc (AT) nospam (DOT) com> wrote Quote: are awfully hard to find. I just "interviewed" a couple at local flight schools by taking little flights with them, ostensibly just for rust removal. There's no way I'd hire them for instrument training. It is tough to find an instructor who really knows his stuff, is a good teacher and is congenial enough that I'd be willing to spend 10's of hours in a cockpit with him/her. Just an observation. I don't expect anyone to have a solution. Oh...I don't know. They're out there if you look. It's true that finding just the right combination of qualities you have mentioned isn't the easiest task in the world, but it's worth the effort looking around for the right instructor. Just a tip; although first impressions are important and are what hit you square in the puss when you start this quest, for someone like yourself; knowing beforehand what you're looking for can actually skew the interview if you're not careful. It's very easy to go in with an up front conception for what you are expecting as a positive result that is so strong it overpowers what would normally pass as "conditions" of the day". Everyone has pressures and schedules and chief flight instructors to deal with. You might be catching a very good prospect and letting them get away when your "net" should have caught them. You have to make absolutely certain that you're considering everything......all the data points....before you write off someone who came with a fair recommendation. When you interview, just make sure you're "up" on the atmosphere you're encountering so that your opinion doesn't get skewered on you. Bottom line.....in your quest for a GOOD instructor......be aware........be advised.......and be alert. Observe the whole picture. Then when you're certain you have considered it all, make your decision. I'm just passing this on to you because I've seen many a mistake made by students going into these things with preconception. Not to say that preconception isn't a good idea...it is. But it also has to be tempered and flexible to be an effective tool. Best of luck in your quest, Dudley Henriques International Fighter Pilots Fellowship for email; take out the trash Back to top Jim Burns Guest Posted: Mon Nov 08, 2004 5:33 pm    Post subject: Re: Good Instructors... Just my thoughts and observations on the subject. What I try to do as an instructor and what I look for in instructors for myself is someone that can clearly teach well and instill a high level of understanding before ever getting in the airplane. While most instructors know that an airplane makes a poor classroom, many students do not realize this. One of an instructors first duties is to explain this fact to new students. While students are anxious to get in the air and don't want to be stuck on the ground or in a classroom, they must learn that is where the real learning happens. I feel that if I teach or learn adequately on the ground then transferring the knowledge into flying skill comes easy. Transferring this theory to "interviews" I would spend most of my interview time on the ground with a new instructor evaluating if he can customize his teaching method to mesh with my learning style. If he asks plenty of questions about my personality, background, learning style, flying history, and goals, he should get a good idea about how I learn best. If I ask him basically the same questions, I can get a good idea about how his personality and teaching methods may mesh with me. You may then ask him to give you a brief ground lesson to evaluate how he applies his teaching methods to what he's learned about you. Again, just my thoughts, your mileage may vary, but there are good instructors out there. Sometimes it just takes a little work uncovering them. Jim "doc" <doc (AT) nospam (DOT) com> wrote Quote: are awfully hard to find. I just "interviewed" a couple at local flight schools by taking little flights with them, ostensibly just for rust removal. There's no way I'd hire them for instrument training. It is tough to find an instructor who really knows his stuff, is a good teacher and is congenial enough that I'd be willing to spend 10's of hours in a cockpit with him/her. Just an observation. I don't expect anyone to have a solution. --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system ([url]http://www.grisoft.com)[/url]. Version: 6.0.788 / Virus Database: 533 - Release Date: 11/1/2004 Back to top C J Campbell Guest Posted: Mon Nov 08, 2004 5:46 pm    Post subject: Re: Good Instructors... "doc" <doc (AT) nospam (DOT) com> wrote Quote: are awfully hard to find. I just "interviewed" a couple at local flight schools by taking little flights with them, ostensibly just for rust removal. There's no way I'd hire them for instrument training. It is tough to find an instructor who really knows his stuff, is a good teacher and is congenial enough that I'd be willing to spend 10's of hours in a cockpit with him/her. It depends a lot on the student. If a student has a tough time getting along with people then he is going to have a tough time finding a congenial instructor. Back to top Robert M. Gary Guest Posted: Mon Nov 08, 2004 7:50 pm    Post subject: Re: Good Instructors... One of the reasons I became an instructor was because I was frustrated with teh CFIs out there. 1/2 of them are young guys who have never owned an airplane before and have never even gone on a long cross country. The other 1/2 are the old guys who used to be professional pilot but haven't been in an airplane without a student in 20 years. I actively fly my Mooney all over the country (and other countries) and end up in real world weather (not training weather where you cancel because its too cold to walk out to the plane). I felt there was a need for CFIs that really do use these little planes to get around in real weather and real situations. However, since I have a regular job, I don't get as much time to teach as I'd like. -Robert doc <doc (AT) nospam (DOT) com> wrote Quote: are awfully hard to find. I just "interviewed" a couple at local flight schools by taking little flights with them, ostensibly just for rust removal. There's no way I'd hire them for instrument training. It is tough to find an instructor who really knows his stuff, is a good teacher and is congenial enough that I'd be willing to spend 10's of hours in a cockpit with him/her. Just an observation. I don't expect anyone to have a solution. Back to top gatt Guest Posted: Mon Nov 08, 2004 7:51 pm    Post subject: Re: Good Instructors... "doc" <doc (AT) nospam (DOT) com> wrote Quote: I just "interviewed" a couple at local flight schools by taking little flights with them, ostensibly just for rust removal. What region? -c PP-ASEL-IA Back to top doc Guest Posted: Mon Nov 08, 2004 8:33 pm    Post subject: Re: Good Instructors... gatt wrote: Dallas. Quote: "doc" <doc (AT) nospam (DOT) com> wrote I just "interviewed" a couple at local flight schools by taking little flights with them, ostensibly just for rust removal. What region? -c PP-ASEL-IA Back to top doc Guest Posted: Mon Nov 08, 2004 8:34 pm    Post subject: Re: Good Instructors... Dallas. gatt wrote: Quote: "doc" <doc (AT) nospam (DOT) com> wrote I just "interviewed" a couple at local flight schools by taking little flights with them, ostensibly just for rust removal. What region? -c PP-ASEL-IA Back to top Dave Stadt Guest Posted: Tue Nov 09, 2004 1:17 am    Post subject: Re: Good Instructors... "Michael" <usenetreplies (AT) thisoldairplane (DOT) com> wrote Quote: rmg1 (AT) my-deja (DOT) com (Robert M. Gary) wrote One of the reasons I became an instructor was because I was frustrated with teh CFIs out there. aol> me too </aol I bitched about it for years, and finally I decided it was time to be part of the solution rather than part of the problem. I encourage any owner who feels the same way to do as I did. Becoming a CFI involves a lot of jumping through FAA hoops, but it's certainly not difficult or challenging. In fact, I can't say it requires acquiring any skill or knowledge that the average 1000 hour instrument rated private pilot owner doesn't already have. 1/2 of them are young guys who have never owned an airplane before and have never even gone on a long cross country. The other 1/2 are the old guys who used to be professional pilot but haven't been in an airplane without a student in 20 years. I think your proportions are wrong (though not your descriptions) - it's about 90% timebuilders and 10% old hands. And I think you make an excellent point - an instructor who does almost no flying other than instruction isn't generally much of an instructor. Neither is someone who has never owned an airplane. I actively fly my Mooney all over the country (and other countries) and end up in real world weather (not training weather where you cancel because its too cold to walk out to the plane). I felt there was a need for CFIs that really do use these little planes to get around in real weather and real situations. However, since I have a regular job, I don't get as much time to teach as I'd like. aol> me too Only I fly my Twin Comanche that way. Before I bought it, I flew my TriPacer the same way (though I admit I got stuck a bit more and needed a lot more time to get places). You might not think a TriPacer is much of a go-places airplane, but when I owned it, I took it South to the Gulf of Mexico, North to the Great Lakes, East to the Statue of Liberty, and West to the Golden Gate. And you've pretty much nailed the key issue - time. Those of us who have full time jobs that pay enough to support an airplane and do our own flying don't have the time to hang around the FBO waiting for a student to maybe show up. We will MAKE time to teach. As a result, when you walk into the FBO and 'interview' some random instructor, you're not getting an owner who flies his own airplane on real trips in real weather. He's not out there waiting for a student to maybe show up. He probably has all the students he can handle, because he doesn't have the time (what with his job and all) to fly more than about 200-300 hours a year, and he probably wants at least half those hours to be his own flying, not instruction. He may not be associated with an FBO at all, training only owners in their own airplanes, or he may be part time - but in any case when you ask for an instructor at the front desk of the FBO you won't be getting his name. In reality, it's quite easy to find a good instructor. Here's how. Forget the FBO - walk around the hangars, and ask the owners who does their training (BFR's, IPC's, transition training when they upgrade). THOSE are the good instructors. Michael Two other points. One, it is surprising how many of the timebuilders have never been in actual IFR conditions. Two, many of the good instructors are very picky about who they will fly with. They have the experience to know who is and isn't a worthy student. Back to top Andrew Sarangan Guest Posted: Tue Nov 09, 2004 4:12 am    Post subject: Re: Good Instructors... You have to keep in mind that some of the better instructors out there interview the students before taking them on. I have found the best instructors at local flying clubs, who instruct not for building time or making money, but just for the heck of it. The ones to stay away from are the graduates of large 141 schools who crank out CFIs in 12 months. doc <doc (AT) nospam (DOT) com> wrote in news:fOmdnUXX3Y-8DxLcRVn-pg (AT) gbronline (DOT) com: Quote: are awfully hard to find. I just "interviewed" a couple at local flight schools by taking little flights with them, ostensibly just for rust removal. There's no way I'd hire them for instrument training. It is tough to find an instructor who really knows his stuff, is a good teacher and is congenial enough that I'd be willing to spend 10's of hours in a cockpit with him/her. Just an observation. I don't expect anyone to have a solution. Posted Via Usenet.com Premium Usenet Newsgroup Services ---------------------------------------------------------- ** SPEED ** RETENTION ** COMPLETION ** ANONYMITY ** ---------------------------------------------------------- http://www.usenet.com Back to top NW_PILOT Guest Posted: Tue Nov 09, 2004 5:46 am    Post subject: Re: Good Instructors... "Robert M. Gary" <rmg1 (AT) my-deja (DOT) com> wrote Quote: One of the reasons I became an instructor was because I was frustrated with teh CFIs out there. 1/2 of them are young guys who have never owned an airplane before and have never even gone on a long cross country. The other 1/2 are the old guys who used to be professional pilot but haven't been in an airplane without a student in 20 years. I actively fly my Mooney all over the country (and other countries) and end up in real world weather (not training weather where you cancel because its too cold to walk out to the plane). I felt there was a need for CFIs that really do use these little planes to get around in real weather and real situations. However, since I have a regular job, I don't get as much time to teach as I'd like. -Robert Robert, you sound like a cool instructor. Most the instructors around here smoke like a chimney and are in a rush to get to the bar to watch the game and have a few drinks, don't show up to early morning appointments or think their stools don't stink and have bad personal hygiene. Some one them will not even commit to your training just leach on you to build time at your expense. Back to top Journeyman Guest Posted: Tue Nov 09, 2004 12:37 pm    Post subject: Re: Good Instructors... In article <pUUjd.20673$Lq2.19634 (AT) newssvr31 (DOT) news.prodigy.com>, Dave Stadt wrote: Quote: Two other points. One, it is surprising how many of the timebuilders have never been in actual IFR conditions. Two, many of the good instructors are I never realized how good I had it in Seattle. Many of the "time builder" instructors specifically moved there to get IMC experience. Lately, I've been talking about self-selecting samples in another context, but it applies here. Those "time-builder" instructors who deliberately sought out the IMC conditions of Seattle were a cut above others becasue they had the drive to go out and seek the experience. Morris Back to top Texan Av8r Guest Posted: Tue Nov 09, 2004 5:18 pm    Post subject: Re: Good Instructors... doc, I know that you did not ask for a recommendation but if I can help you in this quest, let me recommend a name to you. I feel extremely happy with this instructor. In fact, I am thankful for the day when I ran into him 5 years ago. Send me an email if you are interested. Disclaimer: I have no personal or financial interest in this recommendation. SP doc <doc (AT) nospam (DOT) com> wrote Quote: Dallas. Back to top g_goo_goo Guest Posted: Tue Nov 09, 2004 7:12 pm    Post subject: Re: Good Instructors... If you go with a younger instructor (age 20-30) they are there for hours until they can get a better job as I am finding, some of the even admit it. I told my instructor that I wanted to learn all the way so I could teach people and she looked at me puzzled and asked me WHY? I'm just about to go out on my own (solo practice) and it's been taking so long, I've been doing solo circuits for months now, but not with consistancy because I can't get out there because priority seems to go to the flight school's college students, which my instructor is assigned to. Funny, I don't seem to pay any less so why should I get lower priority. G "doc" <doc (AT) nospam (DOT) com> wrote Quote: are awfully hard to find. I just "interviewed" a couple at local flight schools by taking little flights with them, ostensibly just for rust removal. There's no way I'd hire them for instrument training. It is tough to find an instructor who really knows his stuff, is a good teacher and is congenial enough that I'd be willing to spend 10's of hours in a cockpit with him/her. Just an observation. I don't expect anyone to have a solution. Back to top Peter MacPherson Guest Posted: Tue Nov 09, 2004 8:41 pm    Post subject: Re: Good Instructors... Quote: I think your proportions are wrong (though not your descriptions) - it's about 90% timebuilders and 10% old hands. And I think you make an excellent point - an instructor who does almost no flying other than instruction isn't generally much of an instructor. Neither is someone who has never owned an airplane. Michael, I agree with some of your points, but this is a pretty silly generalization. I've used the same CFI for all of my ratings from private through MEI and he is a full time instructor. Meaning he does "almost no flying other than instruction". He is hands down the best instructor I've ever flown with. We flew in actual a lot during my instrument training and did approaches down to minimums, minimums at night, rainy/windy approaches at night, etc.. He also does not own his own plane. How does owning your own airplane make you a better instructor? I own my own airplane, have "another job", fly a lot of actual, and he is STILL a better instructor than I. I agree that there are a lot of inexperienced instructors out there, but maybe it's because they don't like to fly in actual and/or don't have a lot of time. But if the instructor is doing it full time, doing lots of cross country flying in all types of wx , how is he less of an instructor than the guy that flies on his own and owns his own plane? I've also flown with CFI's that were full time part 135 pilots that were good pilots but not very good instructors. Pete "Michael" <usenetreplies (AT) thisoldairplane (DOT) com> wrote Quote: rmg1 (AT) my-deja (DOT) com (Robert M. Gary) wrote One of the reasons I became an instructor was because I was frustrated with teh CFIs out there. aol> me too </aol I bitched about it for years, and finally I decided it was time to be part of the solution rather than part of the problem. I encourage any owner who feels the same way to do as I did. Becoming a CFI involves a lot of jumping through FAA hoops, but it's certainly not difficult or challenging. In fact, I can't say it requires acquiring any skill or knowledge that the average 1000 hour instrument rated private pilot owner doesn't already have. 1/2 of them are young guys who have never owned an airplane before and have never even gone on a long cross country. The other 1/2 are the old guys who used to be professional pilot but haven't been in an airplane without a student in 20 years. I think your proportions are wrong (though not your descriptions) - it's about 90% timebuilders and 10% old hands. And I think you make an excellent point - an instructor who does almost no flying other than instruction isn't generally much of an instructor. Neither is someone who has never owned an airplane. I actively fly my Mooney all over the country (and other countries) and end up in real world weather (not training weather where you cancel because its too cold to walk out to the plane). I felt there was a need for CFIs that really do use these little planes to get around in real weather and real situations. However, since I have a regular job, I don't get as much time to teach as I'd like. aol> me too Only I fly my Twin Comanche that way. Before I bought it, I flew my TriPacer the same way (though I admit I got stuck a bit more and needed a lot more time to get places). You might not think a TriPacer is much of a go-places airplane, but when I owned it, I took it South to the Gulf of Mexico, North to the Great Lakes, East to the Statue of Liberty, and West to the Golden Gate. And you've pretty much nailed the key issue - time. Those of us who have full time jobs that pay enough to support an airplane and do our own flying don't have the time to hang around the FBO waiting for a student to maybe show up. We will MAKE time to teach. As a result, when you walk into the FBO and 'interview' some random instructor, you're not getting an owner who flies his own airplane on real trips in real weather. He's not out there waiting for a student to maybe show up. He probably has all the students he can handle, because he doesn't have the time (what with his job and all) to fly more than about 200-300 hours a year, and he probably wants at least half those hours to be his own flying, not instruction. He may not be associated with an FBO at all, training only owners in their own airplanes, or he may be part time - but in any case when you ask for an instructor at the front desk of the FBO you won't be getting his name. In reality, it's quite easy to find a good instructor. Here's how. Forget the FBO - walk around the hangars, and ask the owners who does their training (BFR's, IPC's, transition training when they upgrade). THOSE are the good instructors. Michael Back to top Display posts from previous: All Posts1 Day7 Days2 Weeks1 Month3 Months6 Months1 Year Oldest FirstNewest First         AirTalk.org Forum Index -> Aviation (Students) All times are GMT Goto page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next Page 1 of 5   Jump to: Select a forum Aviation----------------alt.aviationAviation safety EnhancementPlanes, gliders and flying in AustraliaAviation et pilotage (Français)rec.aviationAviation (Aerobatics)Hot air, gas balloons and airshipsHang-gliding, paragliding, foot-launched flightAircraft Design & BuildingInstrument Flight RulesAviation (Classifieds)Military AircraftNaval AviationAviation (Miscellaneous Topics)Owning AirplanesAviators (General Discussions)Aviation related productsAircraft RestorationHelicopters and rotary wing aircraftsFlight SimulationSailplanesAviation (Students)Light aircraftFlying related activities in the UK Airports----------------alt.airportsEdinburgh Airport Glasgow Airport Humberside Airport Luton Airport Aberdeen Airport Glasgow Prestwick Airport  You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2006 phpBB Group SEO toolkit © 2004-2006 webmedic.