AirTalk.org Aviation discussions newsgroups   Archives   FAQ   Search   Memberlist   Usergroups   Register   Profile   Log in to check your private messages   Log in  GNS430 on the Airway Goto page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next          AirTalk.org Forum Index -> Instrument Flight Rules View previous topic :: View next topic   Author Message jerry@tr2.com Guest Posted: Tue Feb 07, 2006 4:46 am    Post subject: GNS430 on the Airway Hello, I was on the ground at an uncontrolled field. I got a clearance to "On departure fly runway heading Radar Vectors xyz VOR Victor xxx abc VOR" Before leaving, I programmed the entire route into the GNS430. Since it doesn't have airways, I "synthesized" them by just putting in the VORs and intersections. On departure, ATC gave me kind instructions to skip the xyz VOR. Instead, they vectored me directly onto Victor xxx. The 430 kept the leg "airport to xyz VOR" active, and did not give me any guidance except for the moving map to show when I was established on the airway. So I waited until the little airplane was over the white line, then went to the flight plan page and said "Direct-to" the next point on the plan. I also had the second VOR receiver tuned and twisted. The '430 gave me guidance from exactly where I was - when I pushed the Direct-to and hit Enter. Was I on the airway? Maybe a bit off, hard to tell. The VOR receiver and ATC were both happy. Is there a way to change the active leg in the flight plan, so it gives guidance "from the waypoint that you skipped to the next waypoint" rather than "from where you were when you pressed the button to the next waypoint"? - Jerry Kaidor ( [email]jerry (AT) tr2 (DOT) com[/email] ) Back to top jerry@tr2.com Guest Posted: Tue Feb 07, 2006 4:53 am    Post subject: Re: GNS430 on the Airway Whups, looks like I answered my own question with the PC simulator. You just choose the leg end that you want on the FPL screen, hit "Menu" and it asks if you want to activate that leg. Duhhh..... - Jerry Kaidor Back to top James Pu Guest Posted: Tue Feb 07, 2006 7:53 am    Post subject: Re: GNS430 on the Airway Quote: Is there a way to change the active leg in the flight plan, so it gives guidance "from the waypoint that you skipped to the next waypoint" rather than "from where you were when you pressed the button to the next waypoint"? Yes, of course. Here is how: 1. Hit [FPL] and turn on the cursor. 2. Rotate the big knob and move the cursor to the ending point of the leg you want to intersect. (say Vxxx is defined by WayPt1, VORX, you move the cursor to VORX) 3. Hit [Direct] TWICE (here is the trick, hit twice instead of once) 4. Hit [Enter] Now the entire leg (Vxxx) become active. GNS430 will give you heading to intersect the leg and advise your turn inbound VORX when you about to intersect the Victor airway. Some good GNS430 trick can be found at http://flyimc.mywowbb.com/ Back to top Roy Smith Guest Posted: Tue Feb 07, 2006 1:36 pm    Post subject: Re: GNS430 on the Airway "jerry (AT) tr2 (DOT) com" <jerry (AT) tr2 (DOT) com> wrote: Quote: Is there a way to change the active leg in the flight plan, so it gives guidance "from the waypoint that you skipped to the next waypoint" rather than "from where you were when you pressed the button to the next waypoint"? On the 480, that feature is called "Fly Leg" (found on the -D-> menu). I can only guess that the 430 has something similar. Back to top john smith Guest Posted: Tue Feb 07, 2006 9:50 pm    Post subject: Re: GNS430 on the Airway Quote: On the 480, that feature is called "Fly Leg" (found on the -D-> menu). I can only guess that the 430 has something similar. I don't think so. UPSAV/IIMorrow employed a totally different logic than Garmin. Back to top Robert M. Gary Guest Posted: Tue Feb 07, 2006 10:05 pm    Post subject: Re: GNS430 on the Airway That's one major limitation of the Garmin products. Not having airways is very, very irritating especially to those of us that fly in high traffic areas (such as L.A.). When an approach controller machine guns you with a new 6 airway route without giving you any intersections it leaves you jumping for your chart. When I had my king unit, I would just put the pink airplane line on top of the blue airway line and I was done. I hope Garmin addresses this someday. -Robert Back to top Tim@Backhome.org Guest Posted: Wed Feb 08, 2006 12:10 am    Post subject: Re: GNS430 on the Airway Robert M. Gary wrote: Quote: That's one major limitation of the Garmin products. Not having airways is very, very irritating especially to those of us that fly in high traffic areas (such as L.A.). When an approach controller machine guns you with a new 6 airway route without giving you any intersections it leaves you jumping for your chart. When I had my king unit, I would just put the pink airplane line on top of the blue airway line and I was done. I hope Garmin addresses this someday. -Robert The present 400/500s don't have enough memory. The so-called WAAS mod will provide a whole lot horsepower. I suspect then they could provide an airway database, but they sure ain't talking. Also, their 31 leg flight plan limitation if far too restrictive. My Garmin 296 does a lot better than that! Back to top Robert M. Gary Guest Posted: Wed Feb 08, 2006 1:30 am    Post subject: Re: GNS430 on the Airway Quote: The present 400/500s don't have enough memory. The so-called WAAS mod will provide a whole lot horsepower. I suspect then they could provide an airway database, but they sure ain't talking. That is what Garmin said. Its interesting to consider that my ancient King SkymapIIIc color moving map handheld has airways as does the little PocketFMS program I keep on the PDA in my pocket. So when will the Garmin be able to handle the amount of data that takes up 1/100th of the SD card in my pocket is already handling?? Personally, I think they underestimated the importance of it because the guys back east don't have mountains and therefor don't often fly airways when GPS equipped. Out here, the airways is what threads you through the pass. -Robert Back to top Peter R. Guest Posted: Wed Feb 08, 2006 4:22 am    Post subject: Re: GNS430 on the Airway "Robert M. Gary" <N7093v (AT) gmail (DOT) com> wrote: Quote: Personally, I think they underestimated the importance of it because the guys back east don't have mountains and therefor don't often fly airways when GPS equipped. Out here, the airways is what threads you through the pass. With regards to airways and the northeast US, your statement is not true. Traffic volume and ATC flow result in all IFR traffic being routed over victor airways. Direct between most of the major airports is only given after midnight and before 6:00am. -- Peter Back to top nooneimportant Guest Posted: Wed Feb 08, 2006 7:10 am    Post subject: Re: GNS430 on the Airway But the workaround is very easy... if V123 goes throug the abc bca and cab VOR's then you creat the flight plan wiht waypoints at each vor or intersection on the route. If you are off airway and choose to fly TO the airway, simply go to the FPL screen, select teh NEXT fix on the plan and activate the leg. Your CDI will be in relation to that leg, not a direct line to the fix. Tho i do wish you could simply put AIRPORTA D-> abcVOR-V123-cabVORD D-> AIRPORTB. But it only saves a few entries on most flights. And in reality I've NEVER gotten what i was cleared for IFR wise when i filed /G.... I MIGHT get to the second fix, then its "Proceed Direct AIRPORTB" or something similar that cuts off about 20 minutes of flying time. "Robert M. Gary" <N7093v (AT) gmail (DOT) com> wrote Quote: That's one major limitation of the Garmin products. Not having airways is very, very irritating especially to those of us that fly in high traffic areas (such as L.A.). When an approach controller machine guns you with a new 6 airway route without giving you any intersections it leaves you jumping for your chart. When I had my king unit, I would just put the pink airplane line on top of the blue airway line and I was done. I hope Garmin addresses this someday. -Robert Back to top Peter Clark Guest Posted: Wed Feb 08, 2006 1:05 pm    Post subject: Re: GNS430 on the Airway On Wed, 08 Feb 2006 00:10:13 GMT, [email]Tim (AT) Backhome (DOT) org[/email] wrote: Quote: Robert M. Gary wrote: That's one major limitation of the Garmin products. Not having airways is very, very irritating especially to those of us that fly in high traffic areas (such as L.A.). When an approach controller machine guns you with a new 6 airway route without giving you any intersections it leaves you jumping for your chart. When I had my king unit, I would just put the pink airplane line on top of the blue airway line and I was done. I hope Garmin addresses this someday. -Robert The present 400/500s don't have enough memory. The so-called WAAS mod will provide a whole lot horsepower. I suspect then they could provide an airway database, but they sure ain't talking. Garmin doesn't care about airways and thinks they're obsolete in the GPS direct world. They don't even have them in the G1000 system and have said they aren't planning on adding it, and that box likely has as much if not more power than the WAAS upgrades will have. It really is unfortunate, it shouldn't be that hard to have flight plan routing a-la Honeywell FMS systems (waypoint, airway, waypoint, have the box fill in the intermediate points) in these boxes, especially when the design is done from the ground up and could include that functionality with apparently not much additional work. Back to top Roy Smith Guest Posted: Wed Feb 08, 2006 1:25 pm    Post subject: Re: GNS430 on the Airway Peter Clark <Invalidi (AT) NotIn (DOT) YourLifetime.com.hatespam> wrote: Quote: Garmin doesn't care about airways and thinks they're obsolete in the GPS direct world. They don't even have them in the G1000 system and have said they aren't planning on adding it Wow, that really blows my mind. They've got it in the 480 (via the Apollo/UPSAT acquisition), and it's one of the best features of that box. It's staggering that they left it out of the G1000. Garmin may thing airways are obsolete, but nobody's told ATC about that yet, at least not around where I fly. Back to top Matt Barrow Guest Posted: Wed Feb 08, 2006 1:38 pm    Post subject: Re: GNS430 on the Airway "Peter R." <pjricc (AT) gmailX (DOT) com> wrote Quote: "Robert M. Gary" <N7093v (AT) gmail (DOT) com> wrote: Personally, I think they underestimated the importance of it because the guys back east don't have mountains and therefor don't often fly airways when GPS equipped. Out here, the airways is what threads you through the pass. With regards to airways and the northeast US, your statement is not true. Traffic volume and ATC flow result in all IFR traffic being routed over victor airways. Direct between most of the major airports is only given after midnight and before 6:00am. Hmmm...how are they going to route traffic when all the VOR's are decommissioned in the next few years? Matt Barrow Back to top Peter R. Guest Posted: Wed Feb 08, 2006 3:51 pm    Post subject: Re: GNS430 on the Airway Matt Barrow <mattbarrow (AT) sitefill (DOT) com> wrote: Quote: Hmmm...how are they going to route traffic when all the VOR's are decommissioned in the next few years Next few years? Where did you get this timeframe? -- Peter Back to top Marco Leon Guest Posted: Wed Feb 08, 2006 4:35 pm    Post subject: Re: GNS430 on the Airway "Peter R." <pjricc (AT) gmailX (DOT) com> wrote Quote: Matt Barrow <mattbarrow (AT) sitefill (DOT) com> wrote: Hmmm...how are they going to route traffic when all the VOR's are decommissioned in the next few years Next few years? Where did you get this timeframe? He's making it up. Even if he substituted "years" for "decades," it still would probably be too soon. 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