AirTalk.org Aviation discussions newsgroups   Archives   FAQ   Search   Memberlist   Usergroups   Register   Profile   Log in to check your private messages   Log in  Gliders at Oskosh Goto page 1, 2  Next          AirTalk.org Forum Index -> Sailplanes View previous topic :: View next topic   Author Message kirk.stant@gmail.com Guest Posted: Fri Feb 10, 2006 10:51 pm    Post subject: Gliders at Oskosh SSA will be exhibiting gliders, with an info booth, at Oskosh this year. That's great! But their choice is a bit surprising: "The current plan is to exhibit two sailplanes, a Ximango to represent motor gliders, and a Sparrowhawk for the purists." (quoted from the SSA website). Now, the Ximango is fine for a touring motorglider, but the Sparrowhawk is hardly the glider of choice for purists - it's a nice niche glider (ultralight, medium performance), but not really in the mainstream, IMHO. I consider myself a bit of a purist (my friends would say elitist glasshole, ahem) and when I think of a glider to show off to the great unwashed masses I think ASW-27 , Nimbus 4, or LS-8, not Sparrowhawk. It would be nice to see a modern self launch (Apis?) and a state of the art Std or 15 meter ship, and a modern 2-seat trainer (PW-6/ASK-21). Or wow the motorheads with an ASH-25 or Nimbus 4dm with all the wing bits on! If someone asked me, and I had the time off, I'd be happy to drag my old LS6 up there - but I don't think that's going to happen! Oh well, now for the retribution of the Sparrowhawk fans... Seriously, I really think that this is a good thing - regardless of the actual gliders involved - The EAA crowd could be a great source of glider pilots. Good on you, SSA! And good luck! Kirk 66 Back to top Mike the Strike Guest Posted: Fri Feb 10, 2006 11:10 pm    Post subject: Re: Gliders at Oskosh Maybe "purist" means "Made in America", which kind of limits the choices! Mike Back to top Shawn Guest Posted: Fri Feb 10, 2006 11:16 pm    Post subject: Re: Gliders at Oskosh [email]kirk.stant (AT) gmail (DOT) com[/email] wrote: Quote: SSA will be exhibiting gliders, with an info booth, at Oskosh this year. That's great! But their choice is a bit surprising: "The current plan is to exhibit two sailplanes, a Ximango to represent motor gliders, and a Sparrowhawk for the purists." (quoted from the SSA website). I think the Ximango is something of a poor choice to show off on our behalf. Because it looks fairly airplane like, I suspect all the motorheads will only look at its airplane qualities, as in "Where do I put my golf clubs?", or "Only cruises at 95 kts, might as well walk!" and ignore its soaring potential. A Stemme, Antares, or "JATO" Silent would be a more novel (if unrepresentative) intro to the sport. The Sparrowhawk seems like a good choice too, if they can't get an Eta. :-) Shawn Back to top Shawn Guest Posted: Fri Feb 10, 2006 11:21 pm    Post subject: Re: Gliders at Oskosh Mike the Strike wrote: Quote: Maybe "purist" means "Made in America", which kind of limits the choices! Maybe they're sticking to "Made in the Americas" and that's why they chose the Chimichanga too. Shawn Back to top Wayne Paul Guest Posted: Fri Feb 10, 2006 11:52 pm    Post subject: Re: Gliders at Oskosh "Mike the Strike" <Stringmike (AT) msn (DOT) com> wrote Quote: Maybe "purist" means "Made in America", which kind of limits the choices! It seems a little strange to me that a sailplane built from a kit, such as an Apis ([url]http://www.apisgliders.com/kit.html)[/url], is not included. Or, maybe couple vintage/classic gliders. After all the EAA is the organization that advocates for home built aircraft, antique aircraft, war birds and acrobatics. The organization also has a large Ultralight contingent. That is where the SparrowHawk fits. I really don't see where the Ximango fits. Wayne ------------------------ HP-14 N990 "6F" http://www.soaridaho.com/Schreder BTW - Dick Schreder was EAA member # 504 Back to top Bob Kuykendall Guest Posted: Sat Feb 11, 2006 1:20 am    Post subject: Re: Gliders at Oskosh Earlier, [email]kirk.stant (AT) gmail (DOT) com[/email] wrote: Quote: SSA will be exhibiting gliders, with an info booth, at Oskosh this year. That's great! But their choice is a bit surprising: "The current plan is to exhibit two sailplanes, a Ximango to represent motor gliders, and a Sparrowhawk for the purists." (quoted from the SSA website). That sounds about like what I've come to expect of the SSA. Bob K. http://www.hpaircraft.com Back to top Eric Greenwell Guest Posted: Sat Feb 11, 2006 3:25 am    Post subject: Re: Gliders at Oskosh Bob Kuykendall wrote: Quote: Earlier, [email]kirk.stant (AT) gmail (DOT) com[/email] wrote: SSA will be exhibiting gliders, with an info booth, at Oskosh this year. That's great! But their choice is a bit surprising: "The current plan is to exhibit two sailplanes, a Ximango to represent motor gliders, and a Sparrowhawk for the purists." (quoted from the SSA website). That sounds about like what I've come to expect of the SSA. Don't be too quick to judge: discover the situation first. Currently, the event is being spearheaded by an eager volunteer group that is raising money for the event. The SSA, and some of it's divisions and affiliates are contributing money and some effort, but the majority of the money and effort comes from the self-energizing volunteer group. Ian Cant, an occasional poster here, is one of the leaders, and the person I dealt with when the ASA (Auxiliary-powered Sailplane Association) wanted to know if this effort was one we should support. We've sent them a check (via the SSA), and hope to have at least one self-launching sailplane there besides the Ximango, either as part of a fly-in, or at/near the booth. The details are far from settled, and if you are interested in influencing them, contact the lead organizers. The contacts (Ian Cant and Anne Mongiovi) are clearly listed on the SSA site. I urge everyone with some real interest in this event to get the details before they post here. And note that I'm picking on Bob, not because he is the most uninformed, but because I've met him several times and know he is decent fellow with a sturdy ego that can withstand some gentle chiding (I hope it's perceived that way!). -- Change "netto" to "net" to email me directly Eric Greenwell Washington State USA www.motorglider.org Back to top Bob Kuykendall Guest Posted: Sat Feb 11, 2006 3:43 am    Post subject: Re: Gliders at Oskosh Good points all, Eric. On reflection, I'm glad that somebody has stepped up to the plate and is representing soaring at Oshkosh, er, AirVenture. I guess it's too easy to lose sight of the fact that the SSA isn't a bunch of nameless, faceless drones - it's us. Or, at least, those of us who are members. Bob K. Back to top kirk.stant@gmail.com Guest Posted: Sat Feb 11, 2006 4:10 pm    Post subject: Re: Gliders at Oskosh Eric, You are absolutely correct - Anne and Ian deserve all our support - in time, money, gliders, etc to make this initiative work. And our untarnished respect - this isn't an easy thing to do! And realistically, finding room for a 25m ship in the display area would be challenging, I susbect. That reason alone makes the Sparrowhawk a good choice, in retrospect - and it does have a certain "what a cool little glider" appeal to it. On the other hand, maybe we should all fly in to Oskosh together, release nearby, and do a simultaneous contest finish! No? Then how about holding a regional contest there the week prior to or after Airventure? Anyway - Anne and Ian, thankyou for your efforts, and good luck! And hopefully my slightly tongue-in-cheek (it's winter and stable, and the field is wet, dammit!) posting will have raised awareness of your initiative a bit. Kirk 66 Back to top Leon@caspercityauto.com Guest Posted: Sat Feb 11, 2006 6:05 pm    Post subject: Re: Gliders at Oskosh I come from the homebuilder ranks and if the idea is to attract new blood to the sport of gliding from EAA members ....Then I think they made an excelent choice of gliders to display. Most of the "purests" already are involved in the sport. If you are pitching the sport to the general public to attract non-aviation types then a more "pure" craft might make sense. IMHO there is a large untapped market among EAA and part 103 fliers that would really enjoy the challange and economy of a reasonably efficent motorglider. They just haven't been exposed to that branch of aviation, or have been scared off by the "purests" with their big expensive high performance glass. Soaring/gliding really is a fairly well kept secret and even harder to get started in (in many parts of this country) than general or experimental aviation. ====================== Leon McAtee Back to top Mike Schumann Guest Posted: Sun Feb 12, 2006 12:47 am    Post subject: Re: Gliders at Oskosh If you really want to generate interest, you should do some winch launch demonstrations. Mike Schumann <Leon (AT) caspercityauto (DOT) com> wrote Quote: I come from the homebuilder ranks and if the idea is to attract new blood to the sport of gliding from EAA members ....Then I think they made an excelent choice of gliders to display. Most of the "purests" already are involved in the sport. If you are pitching the sport to the general public to attract non-aviation types then a more "pure" craft might make sense. IMHO there is a large untapped market among EAA and part 103 fliers that would really enjoy the challange and economy of a reasonably efficent motorglider. They just haven't been exposed to that branch of aviation, or have been scared off by the "purests" with their big expensive high performance glass. Soaring/gliding really is a fairly well kept secret and even harder to get started in (in many parts of this country) than general or experimental aviation. ====================== Leon McAtee Back to top Bill Daniels Guest Posted: Sun Feb 12, 2006 1:20 am    Post subject: Re: Gliders at Oskosh I second that. Bill Daniels "Mike Schumann" <mike-nospam (AT) traditions-nospam (DOT) com> wrote Quote: If you really want to generate interest, you should do some winch launch demonstrations. Mike Schumann [email]Leon (AT) caspercityauto (DOT) com[/email]> wrote in message news:1139681113.463528.170260 (AT) f14g2000cwb (DOT) googlegroups.com... I come from the homebuilder ranks and if the idea is to attract new blood to the sport of gliding from EAA members ....Then I think they made an excelent choice of gliders to display. Most of the "purests" already are involved in the sport. If you are pitching the sport to the general public to attract non-aviation types then a more "pure" craft might make sense. IMHO there is a large untapped market among EAA and part 103 fliers that would really enjoy the challange and economy of a reasonably efficent motorglider. They just haven't been exposed to that branch of aviation, or have been scared off by the "purests" with their big expensive high performance glass. Soaring/gliding really is a fairly well kept secret and even harder to get started in (in many parts of this country) than general or experimental aviation. ====================== Leon McAtee Back to top Eric Greenwell Guest Posted: Sun Feb 12, 2006 2:34 am    Post subject: Re: Gliders at Oskosh Mike Schumann wrote: Quote: If you really want to generate interest, you should do some winch launch demonstrations. My observation is airplane pilots, which covers most of EAA folks, are not looking for more labor-intensive ways to go flying. Even a towplane and a tow pilot seems like one more pilot and aircraft than they are interested in. For airplane oriented pilots, the cost of glider flying is not the $dollars, but the time involved in doing it. So, how does winch launching attract this demographic? -- Change "netto" to "net" to email me directly Eric Greenwell Washington State USA www.motorglider.org - Download "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation" Back to top Bill Daniels Guest Posted: Sun Feb 12, 2006 2:58 am    Post subject: Re: Gliders at Oskosh "Eric Greenwell" <flyguy26e (AT) charter (DOT) netto> wrote Quote: Mike Schumann wrote: If you really want to generate interest, you should do some winch launch demonstrations. My observation is airplane pilots, which covers most of EAA folks, are not looking for more labor-intensive ways to go flying. Even a towplane and a tow pilot seems like one more pilot and aircraft than they are interested in. For airplane oriented pilots, the cost of glider flying is not the $dollars, but the time involved in doing it. So, how does winch launching attract this demographic? -- Change "netto" to "net" to email me directly Eric Greenwell Washington State USA I don't think airplane pilots are that easy to pidgonhole. Obviously some the the people at Oshcosh are looking for the thrill. Those marginally interested in gliders will find winch launch exciting. Bill Daniels Back to top Mike Schumann Guest Posted: Sun Feb 12, 2006 6:41 am    Post subject: Re: Gliders at Oskosh My main interest in winch launching is not saving money (even though that is a major advantage), but the thrill of getting launched like you were being shot out of canon. Instead of a boring tow, the launch itself is the highlight of the ride. Mike Schumann "Eric Greenwell" <flyguy26e (AT) charter (DOT) netto> wrote Quote: Mike Schumann wrote: If you really want to generate interest, you should do some winch launch demonstrations. My observation is airplane pilots, which covers most of EAA folks, are not looking for more labor-intensive ways to go flying. Even a towplane and a tow pilot seems like one more pilot and aircraft than they are interested in. For airplane oriented pilots, the cost of glider flying is not the $dollars, but the time involved in doing it. So, how does winch launching attract this demographic? -- Change "netto" to "net" to email me directly Eric Greenwell Washington State USA www.motorglider.org - Download "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation" Back to top Display posts from previous: All Posts1 Day7 Days2 Weeks1 Month3 Months6 Months1 Year Oldest FirstNewest First         AirTalk.org Forum Index -> Sailplanes All times are GMT Goto page 1, 2  Next Page 1 of 2   Jump to: Select a forum Aviation----------------alt.aviationAviation safety EnhancementPlanes, gliders and flying in AustraliaAviation et pilotage (Français)rec.aviationAviation (Aerobatics)Hot air, gas balloons and airshipsHang-gliding, paragliding, foot-launched flightAircraft Design & BuildingInstrument Flight RulesAviation (Classifieds)Military AircraftNaval AviationAviation (Miscellaneous Topics)Owning AirplanesAviators (General Discussions)Aviation related productsAircraft RestorationHelicopters and rotary wing aircraftsFlight SimulationSailplanesAviation (Students)Light aircraftFlying related activities in the UK Airports----------------alt.airportsEdinburgh Airport Glasgow Airport Humberside Airport Luton Airport Aberdeen Airport Glasgow Prestwick Airport  You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2006 phpBB Group SEO toolkit © 2004-2006 webmedic.