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Blair
Guest
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 Posted: Sun Nov 28, 2004 11:57 pm Post subject: Getting started in the SF Bay Area |
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Greetings,
I'm a 35 year old living in Mountain View, CA and have decided to
start pursuing a PPL sometime in the coming months. I've been
interested in flying off and on since I was a teenager but I can't say
I've been totally committed to trying it until now. It's a great time
in my life to try something new, challenging and rewarding. I've been
doing some research (including hanging around here a bit) and my
excitement is building (along with a bit of nervousness, to be
honest!) so I thought I would introduce myself and see if anyone in my
area has any advice/recommendations/words of encouragement.
Since I live in MV and work in Burlingame and my schedule is such that
I can't afford to spend much time driving to the field the logical
choices are San Carlos and/or Palo Alto. I know that the cost will be
higher at those places than, say, RHV but I can live with that. I
guess my greatest concern is how busy KSQL and especially KPAO
apparently are. If I take lessons on the weekend will I be sitting on
the taxiway for half my lesson? What about during the week?
As for clubs/schools, I plan on visiting a handful, but my initial
inclination is to go with West Valley Flying Club since I've read good
things (and nothing bad) about them and because they are located at
both SQL and PAO. Stanford Flying Club, Diamond Aviation and Palo Alto
Flying Club are the others I plan on checking out. Bel-Air seems to be
one to avoid based on what I've read.
Choosing an instructor seems like the most important part of getting
started and I know I'll need to interview a selection to find the
right one but I'd love to hear any local recommendations so I can at
least start with a short list.
I'm reading Kershner right now (9th edition, the 1968 3rd edition copy
that my uncle gave 20 years ago and that I still have probably is a
bit out of date  and FAA 8083-3 and Say Again Please are on their
way from Amazon. Beyond that I'll see what my CFI suggests.
I guess the one other big question is when to start. I figured Spring
would be best with the better weather but Whitt's site suggests that
one might be better served starting in the Fall. Little late for that
but maybe the answer is to start ASAP and use the not so perfect
weather as a learning tool?
So that's it for now. I appreciate any input from you folks and look
forward to being a part of this community.
Blair Martin
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Bob Gardner
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Nov 29, 2004 12:11 am Post subject: Re: Getting started in the SF Bay Area |
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Your Kershner book is a LOT out of date. Not quite useless, but close. About
the only things that have not changed are the laws of physics governing
flight.
Bob Gardner
"Blair" <google (AT) blairdmartin (DOT) com> wrote
| Quote: | Greetings,
I'm a 35 year old living in Mountain View, CA and have decided to
start pursuing a PPL sometime in the coming months. I've been
interested in flying off and on since I was a teenager but I can't say
I've been totally committed to trying it until now. It's a great time
in my life to try something new, challenging and rewarding. I've been
doing some research (including hanging around here a bit) and my
excitement is building (along with a bit of nervousness, to be
honest!) so I thought I would introduce myself and see if anyone in my
area has any advice/recommendations/words of encouragement.
Since I live in MV and work in Burlingame and my schedule is such that
I can't afford to spend much time driving to the field the logical
choices are San Carlos and/or Palo Alto. I know that the cost will be
higher at those places than, say, RHV but I can live with that. I
guess my greatest concern is how busy KSQL and especially KPAO
apparently are. If I take lessons on the weekend will I be sitting on
the taxiway for half my lesson? What about during the week?
As for clubs/schools, I plan on visiting a handful, but my initial
inclination is to go with West Valley Flying Club since I've read good
things (and nothing bad) about them and because they are located at
both SQL and PAO. Stanford Flying Club, Diamond Aviation and Palo Alto
Flying Club are the others I plan on checking out. Bel-Air seems to be
one to avoid based on what I've read.
Choosing an instructor seems like the most important part of getting
started and I know I'll need to interview a selection to find the
right one but I'd love to hear any local recommendations so I can at
least start with a short list.
I'm reading Kershner right now (9th edition, the 1968 3rd edition copy
that my uncle gave 20 years ago and that I still have probably is a
bit out of date and FAA 8083-3 and Say Again Please are on their
way from Amazon. Beyond that I'll see what my CFI suggests.
I guess the one other big question is when to start. I figured Spring
would be best with the better weather but Whitt's site suggests that
one might be better served starting in the Fall. Little late for that
but maybe the answer is to start ASAP and use the not so perfect
weather as a learning tool?
So that's it for now. I appreciate any input from you folks and look
forward to being a part of this community.
Blair Martin
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Jack Allison
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Nov 29, 2004 12:50 am Post subject: Re: Getting started in the SF Bay Area |
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Congratulations on making the decision Blair. IMHO, one of the best
things you'll ever do. Wish I could offer some FBO advice but my only
experience is with Tradewinds at RHV. Hopefully, there are others in
the group with experience at PAO or SQL.
--
Jack Allison
PP-ASEL, IA Student, airplane partnership student
"When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the Earth
with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, and there
you will always long to return"
- Leonardo Da Vinci
(Remove the obvious from address to reply via e-mail)
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Dave
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Nov 29, 2004 12:55 am Post subject: Re: Getting started in the SF Bay Area |
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Wow, lotsa questions. I'll address what I feel I can
sitting on the taxiway is something you do where I live. It is never very
long, but I have learned to maximize the extra time witht eh instructor to
ask questions about everything I see. Plenty of gems to be mined if you
keep the brain going.
Some times I just watch the sky to see how far off I can spot the biz jets
on final as a scan practice.
--
Dave A
Aging Student Pilot
"Blair" <google (AT) blairdmartin (DOT) com> wrote
| Quote: | Greetings,
I'm a 35 year old living in Mountain View, CA and have decided to
start pursuing a PPL sometime in the coming months. I've been
interested in flying off and on since I was a teenager but I can't say
I've been totally committed to trying it until now. It's a great time
in my life to try something new, challenging and rewarding. I've been
doing some research (including hanging around here a bit) and my
excitement is building (along with a bit of nervousness, to be
honest!) so I thought I would introduce myself and see if anyone in my
area has any advice/recommendations/words of encouragement.
Since I live in MV and work in Burlingame and my schedule is such that
I can't afford to spend much time driving to the field the logical
choices are San Carlos and/or Palo Alto. I know that the cost will be
higher at those places than, say, RHV but I can live with that. I
guess my greatest concern is how busy KSQL and especially KPAO
apparently are. If I take lessons on the weekend will I be sitting on
the taxiway for half my lesson? What about during the week?
As for clubs/schools, I plan on visiting a handful, but my initial
inclination is to go with West Valley Flying Club since I've read good
things (and nothing bad) about them and because they are located at
both SQL and PAO. Stanford Flying Club, Diamond Aviation and Palo Alto
Flying Club are the others I plan on checking out. Bel-Air seems to be
one to avoid based on what I've read.
Choosing an instructor seems like the most important part of getting
started and I know I'll need to interview a selection to find the
right one but I'd love to hear any local recommendations so I can at
least start with a short list.
I'm reading Kershner right now (9th edition, the 1968 3rd edition copy
that my uncle gave 20 years ago and that I still have probably is a
bit out of date and FAA 8083-3 and Say Again Please are on their
way from Amazon. Beyond that I'll see what my CFI suggests.
I guess the one other big question is when to start. I figured Spring
would be best with the better weather but Whitt's site suggests that
one might be better served starting in the Fall. Little late for that
but maybe the answer is to start ASAP and use the not so perfect
weather as a learning tool?
So that's it for now. I appreciate any input from you folks and look
forward to being a part of this community.
Blair Martin
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Blair
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Nov 29, 2004 2:04 am Post subject: Re: Getting started in the SF Bay Area |
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On Sun, 28 Nov 2004 16:11:35 -0800, "Bob Gardner" <bobmrg (AT) comcast (DOT) net>
wrote:
| Quote: | Your Kershner book is a LOT out of date. Not quite useless, but close. About
the only things that have not changed are the laws of physics governing
flight.
|
Hehe. I actually said that I'm reading the 9th edition but threw in
the fact that I have the 3rd edition just for kicks.
Funny thing is that they're not as drastically different as I would
have expected considering they were published 33 years apart. Course,
I'm sticking with the new one regardless. ;)
Blair
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Blair
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Nov 29, 2004 2:14 am Post subject: Re: Getting started in the SF Bay Area |
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On Mon, 29 Nov 2004 00:55:48 GMT, "Dave" <nospam (AT) please (DOT) net> wrote:
| Quote: | Wow, lotsa questions.
|
Yeah, I probably should have broken things into more digestible
chunks. My enthusiasm got the better of me. :)
Main thing I'm looking for are school/CFI recommendations from people
in my area and thoughts on starting in the middle of winter.
| Quote: | I'll address what I feel I can
sitting on the taxiway is something you do where I live. It is never very
long, but I have learned to maximize the extra time witht eh instructor to
ask questions about everything I see. Plenty of gems to be mined if you
keep the brain going.
|
Good advice. It's just that I read enough stuff in the archives about
Palo Alto getting so crowded at times that I'm imagining the flying
equivalent of nearby 101 during rush hour <shudder>. Some of those
posts were dot-com boom era though so that might have been a factor.
Blair
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Ray
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Nov 29, 2004 2:30 am Post subject: Re: Getting started in the SF Bay Area |
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| Quote: | Since I live in MV and work in Burlingame and my schedule is such that
I can't afford to spend much time driving to the field the logical
choices are San Carlos and/or Palo Alto. I know that the cost will be
higher at those places than, say, RHV but I can live with that. I
guess my greatest concern is how busy KSQL and especially KPAO
apparently are. If I take lessons on the weekend will I be sitting on
the taxiway for half my lesson? What about during the week?
|
I just recently got my PPL out of Palo Alto and West Valley. As far as
instruction quality, airplane availability, and airplane maintenance, West
Valley is among the best around. I had a great experience with West Valley
and highly recommend them. They are, however, noticeably more expensive
than the Stanford or Palo Alto Flying clubs - and from what I've heard, both
are very good clubs as well. Among the advantages of West Valley though, is
the ability to fly out of Palo Alto, San Carlos, or Hayward completely
seamlessly.
Now - as far as taking lessons out of KPAO or KSQL. I think KPAO gets
somewhat of an undesserved reputation for being a "slow" airport to train
it. It's true that they can get very busy at times, and lot's of people
have stories of being number 8 to land. When it does get busy you will
indeed be wasting money on the ground and in fact moreso in the air flying
extended downwinds all the way to Moffett Field. But from what I've seen,
the traffic level at KPAO comes in very abrupt spurts and usually is
somewhat predictable. It's very rarely busy on weekdays, and in general on
weekend mornings/early afternoons it's also pretty quiet. Then a couple
hours before sunset, it starts to get really busy as everyone comes back
from their daytrips. The point is, I wouldn't consider traffic at KPAO to
be a major problem. On the other hand, if you'd like to minimize the cost
of waiting on the ground, consider Stanford Flying Club, which charges Tach
time (which is calibrated to factor in engine RPM) as opposed to Hobbs time
(which is just a regular timer). Since you run at far less than cruise
power when waiting on the ground, the Tach time will be a lot less than the
Hobbs time.
Feel free to e-mail me (jk11001001 (AT) yahoo (DOT) com) if you have any other
questions.
- Ray
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jharper aaatttt cisco ddd
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Nov 29, 2004 8:46 am Post subject: Re: Getting started in the SF Bay Area |
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Another school at PAO is Sundance. It's much smaller than
WVFC or PAFC, but it's where I did my primary and IR and
I was very happy with it. I learned with their chief pilot,
Fred, who is back in business now after some time off with
medical problems (he has 10000+ hrs).
The only time the traffic level at PAO is really a problem
is fine saturday mornings. Then you CAN find youself number eight
in the pattern. I did most of my training after work (a reason
to wait until spring) and traffic was never a problem then.
John
Blair wrote:
| Quote: | Greetings,
I'm a 35 year old living in Mountain View, CA and have decided to
start pursuing a PPL sometime in the coming months. I've been
interested in flying off and on since I was a teenager but I can't say
I've been totally committed to trying it until now. It's a great time
in my life to try something new, challenging and rewarding. I've been
doing some research (including hanging around here a bit) and my
excitement is building (along with a bit of nervousness, to be
honest!) so I thought I would introduce myself and see if anyone in my
area has any advice/recommendations/words of encouragement.
Since I live in MV and work in Burlingame and my schedule is such that
I can't afford to spend much time driving to the field the logical
choices are San Carlos and/or Palo Alto. I know that the cost will be
higher at those places than, say, RHV but I can live with that. I
guess my greatest concern is how busy KSQL and especially KPAO
apparently are. If I take lessons on the weekend will I be sitting on
the taxiway for half my lesson? What about during the week?
As for clubs/schools, I plan on visiting a handful, but my initial
inclination is to go with West Valley Flying Club since I've read good
things (and nothing bad) about them and because they are located at
both SQL and PAO. Stanford Flying Club, Diamond Aviation and Palo Alto
Flying Club are the others I plan on checking out. Bel-Air seems to be
one to avoid based on what I've read.
Choosing an instructor seems like the most important part of getting
started and I know I'll need to interview a selection to find the
right one but I'd love to hear any local recommendations so I can at
least start with a short list.
I'm reading Kershner right now (9th edition, the 1968 3rd edition copy
that my uncle gave 20 years ago and that I still have probably is a
bit out of date and FAA 8083-3 and Say Again Please are on their
way from Amazon. Beyond that I'll see what my CFI suggests.
I guess the one other big question is when to start. I figured Spring
would be best with the better weather but Whitt's site suggests that
one might be better served starting in the Fall. Little late for that
but maybe the answer is to start ASAP and use the not so perfect
weather as a learning tool?
So that's it for now. I appreciate any input from you folks and look
forward to being a part of this community.
Blair Martin
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Cecil Chapman
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Nov 29, 2004 6:51 pm Post subject: Re: Getting started in the SF Bay Area |
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| Quote: | Wow! I'm paying $93/hour for a C172M!
|
Wow, is right!
I pay the rate you're paying for a 172M for my complex training which is in
a Piper Arrow III. Moving from SQL to RHV made a big difference in my
instruction/fun-flying costs.
--
--
=-----
Good Flights!
Cecil
PP-ASEL-IA
Student - CP-ASEL
Check out my personal flying adventures from my first flight to the
checkride AND the continuing adventures beyond!
Complete with pictures and text at: www.bayareapilot.com
"I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things."
- Antoine de Saint-Exupery -
"We who fly, do so for the love of flying. We are alive in the air with
this miracle that lies in our hands and beneath our feet"
- Cecil Day Lewis -
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Pavan Bhatnagar
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Nov 30, 2004 11:40 pm Post subject: Re: Getting started in the SF Bay Area |
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Blair <google (AT) blairdmartin (DOT) com> wrote
| Quote: | On 29 Nov 2004 13:23:26 -0800, [email]pavansheel (AT) yahoo (DOT) com[/email] (Pavan Bhatnagar)
wrote:
All of which significantly increases the perceived workload for a
student in the pattern.
As a counterpoint a pilot I talked to said SQL has some tricky cross
winds in his experience. Sounds like each has their challenges.
|
This is true. (92 pass wind tunnel effect , I believe)
Personally , I don't count crosswind landings as 'workload'.
Shooting crosswind landings is an excellent way of improving your
control over the airplane.
| Quote: |
Wow, things are significantly cheaper down at RHV. Considering I work
in Burlingame and plan on taking lessons at various times during the
work week, though, there's no way I have the time to go there. Takes
me up to 40 minutes just going Burlingame to Mountain View sometimes.
|
Which is another reason why I use KSQL...I work at San Mateo, and
often fly during extended lunch.
Pavan.
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Cecil Chapman
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Dec 01, 2004 3:32 am Post subject: Re: Getting started in the SF Bay Area |
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| Quote: | Personally , I don't count crosswind landings as 'workload'.
Shooting crosswind landings is an excellent way of improving your
control over the airplane.
|
For a brand-new student it just throws more into the equation of
'how-to-land' a plane than they need at that point. I would rather a
student have his first 10 hours or so, flying with a nice training wind (or
not) coming straight down the runway. Let them see an ideal situation
before introducing all the variables - otherwise they get overtaxed and
frustrated that they can't control the plane (which for a 'brandy-new'
student, churns up all the 'self-doubt fairies' they may have in the
background about whether they can learn to fly).
--
--
=-----
Good Flights!
Cecil
PP-ASEL-IA
Student - CP-ASEL
Check out my personal flying adventures from my first flight to the
checkride AND the continuing adventures beyond!
Complete with pictures and text at: www.bayareapilot.com
"I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things."
- Antoine de Saint-Exupery -
"We who fly, do so for the love of flying. We are alive in the air with
this miracle that lies in our hands and beneath our feet"
- Cecil Day Lewis -
"Pavan Bhatnagar" <pavansheel (AT) yahoo (DOT) com> wrote
| Quote: | Blair <google (AT) blairdmartin (DOT) com> wrote in message
news:<990oq05gr2neh09vj5t9d06581fb2ks2kr (AT) 4ax (DOT) com>...
On 29 Nov 2004 13:23:26 -0800, [email]pavansheel (AT) yahoo (DOT) com[/email] (Pavan Bhatnagar)
wrote:
All of which significantly increases the perceived workload for a
student in the pattern.
As a counterpoint a pilot I talked to said SQL has some tricky cross
winds in his experience. Sounds like each has their challenges.
This is true. (92 pass wind tunnel effect , I believe)
Wow, things are significantly cheaper down at RHV. Considering I work
in Burlingame and plan on taking lessons at various times during the
work week, though, there's no way I have the time to go there. Takes
me up to 40 minutes just going Burlingame to Mountain View sometimes.
Which is another reason why I use KSQL...I work at San Mateo, and
often fly during extended lunch.
Pavan.
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Gerald Sylvester
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Dec 01, 2004 4:19 am Post subject: Re: Getting started in the SF Bay Area |
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| Quote: | I would not be surprised to see prices at RHV being raised in the near
future and/or some of these FBOs going out of business. I was told that
Nice Air was making their money by bringing over Japanese students who
learned to fly at RHV and 9/11 has put a bit of a crimp in the foreign
student pilot business.
|
I was near the airport about 6-8 months ago and had time to kill. I
took a look at the shop there along with the FBO's. Although I
didn't speak to all of the people at every FBO, it certainly seemed
like only 20% of the people spoke English. I wasn't shopping for
a club or CFI but I'd have serious issues with someone trying to
teach me about how to fly an airplane when they couldn't answer
basic questions like "Do you have a list of aircraft your club rents."
That being said, I've been very happy with West Valley in almost every
regard. Sundance I've heard good things about but it is a lot smaller.
I've never heard a positive thing about Palo Alto Flying Club. The
club on the western side of SQL I've heard horrible stories about.
Diamond I've heard good things about but they have a really annoying
practice of blocking the taxiway for 10 minutes at a time as they
are not allowed to taxi *out* of the tiedowns. I literally had 2 of
their members (and club) screamed at my airport personnel for this
reason....if I decided to do my runup on the numbers I'm sure I'd
hear about it too although once I'm given (cleared) for the the runway
I guess it is technically my runway then (not that I want to test this
ever).
Gerald
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