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robert arndt
Guest
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 Posted: Wed Feb 18, 2004 5:46 pm Post subject: Germany Lost the War... So What? |
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The US postwar history:
Korea: stalemate
Cuban Missile Crisis: stalemate
Vietnam: LOST
Operation Eagle Claw (Iranian Hostage Rescue): Failure
Lebanon: Marines blown up- failure
Reagan-Bush years: a string of success shooting down a few Libyan MiGs
and attacking small puny nations with no AF- Victory?
Gulf War I: had to raise a coalition to fight another Third World
nation, didn't finish the job which leads to Gulf War II. Kurds and
population suffer as a result.
The Balkans: another attack on an unworthy adversary. Serbs leave with
their armor and military/police units intact. International force
needed.
Terrorist attack on the USS Cole: failed
9/11: could prevent terrorist attack, 3000 fatalities
Afghanistan: attack on another unworthy adversary. Taliban and Osama
escape into Pakistan. International force needed again. Failure.
Iraq prewar: Fires at US aircraft for 7 years, US retaliates in 1998,
Iraq resumes firing at US aircraft for 4 more years
Gulf War II: US goes it alone, captures Saddam but cannot get real
reconstruction support or troops needed to finish the job due to
isolating UN and certain European nations- failure
Wow, how underwhelming it all is. We seem to be able to pound into
submission any puny Third World nation without a significant AF. But
we don't dare strike Iran, N Korea, or China. In fact China openly
threatens the US over Taiwan and is militarily developing systems to
defeat our stealth, satellites, and to attack the US with missiles in
the future. Iran has threatened the US over its nuclear reactor and N
Korea has done the same over its nuclear program which we failed to
stop. BTW, try attacking the FSU even at its weakest... they have
twice the nukes we have and we all know the history of those that
invade Mother Russia. On their turf the US would lose, same in China.
So I don't care how many time you say Germany lost. Germany is the
size of 1 US state and took on the world. It took everyone with
everything to beat them.
The US in Vietnam was a Superpower giant with the greatest technology
on earth... and lost to peasants walking through the jungle at night
in pajamas armed with an AK-47, machetes, mines, grenades and RPGs.
The US may be the lone Superpower on paper but our track record
post-WW2 isn't that great.
Rob
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Krztalizer
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Feb 18, 2004 7:29 pm Post subject: Re: Germany Lost the War... So What? |
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Nazi German post war history:
<crickets>
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Keith Willshaw
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Feb 18, 2004 7:59 pm Post subject: Re: Germany Lost the War... So What? |
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"robert arndt" <teuton263 (AT) aol (DOT) com> wrote
| Quote: | The US postwar history:
|
Facts arent your strong point are they ?
South Korea was saved from the invading forces of the DPRK
and now a prosperous democracy and ally. Meanwhile the
DPRK moulders in a prison of its own making.
| Quote: | Cuban Missile Crisis: stalemate
|
Nope, the Soviet missiles were withdrawn as the US demanded.
| Quote: | Vietnam: LOST
Operation Eagle Claw (Iranian Hostage Rescue): Failure
Lebanon: Marines blown up- failure
|
True enough
| Quote: | Reagan-Bush years: a string of success shooting down a few Libyan MiGs
and attacking small puny nations with no AF- Victory?
|
Then there's the little matter of the fall of communism, the
dissolution of the Warsaw Pact and the collapse of the USSR
| Quote: | Gulf War I: had to raise a coalition to fight another Third World
nation, didn't finish the job which leads to Gulf War II. Kurds and
population suffer as a result.
|
The war aims of expelling Iraq from Kuwait were achieved
| Quote: | The Balkans: another attack on an unworthy adversary. Serbs leave with
their armor and military/police units intact. International force
needed.
|
The war aims of protecting the Kosovans from Serbian ethnic cleansing
were achieved
| Quote: | Terrorist attack on the USS Cole: failed
|
Quite so, the ship was repaired and re-entered service
| Quote: | 9/11: could prevent terrorist attack, 3000 fatalities
Afghanistan: attack on another unworthy adversary. Taliban and Osama
escape into Pakistan. International force needed again. Failure.
|
Success , Afghanistan is no longer a safe haven for terrorist groups
| Quote: | Iraq prewar: Fires at US aircraft for 7 years, US retaliates in 1998,
Iraq resumes firing at US aircraft for 4 more years
Gulf War II: US goes it alone, captures Saddam but cannot get real
reconstruction support or troops needed to finish the job due to
isolating UN and certain European nations- failure
|
The British troops who took Southern Iraq and Basra tend to disagree
about the going it alone bit.
| Quote: | Wow, how underwhelming it all is. We seem to be able to pound into
submission any puny Third World nation without a significant AF.
|
Iraq started GW1 with the 4th largest army in the world and
a large AF and air defence system, of course when it was over ....
| Quote: | But
we don't dare strike Iran, N Korea, or China. In fact China openly
threatens the US over Taiwan and is militarily developing systems to
defeat our stealth, satellites, and to attack the US with missiles in
the future. Iran has threatened the US over its nuclear reactor and N
Korea has done the same over its nuclear program which we failed to
stop. BTW, try attacking the FSU even at its weakest... they have
twice the nukes we have and we all know the history of those that
invade Mother Russia. On their turf the US would lose, same in China.
|
The difference of course is the US knows that, your hero Adolf didnt.
| Quote: | So I don't care how many time you say Germany lost. Germany is the
size of 1 US state and took on the world. It took everyone with
everything to beat them.
|
Germany had a larger population than any 10 states combined
and controlled the combined industries of western europe
and couldnt even beat Britain.
Keith
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B2431
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Feb 18, 2004 8:20 pm Post subject: Re: Germany Lost the War... So What? |
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| Quote: | From: [email]teuton263 (AT) aol (DOT) com[/email] (robert arndt)
The US postwar history:
Korea: stalemate
Cuban Missile Crisis: stalemate
Vietnam: LOST
Operation Eagle Claw (Iranian Hostage Rescue): Failure
Lebanon: Marines blown up- failure
Reagan-Bush years: a string of success shooting down a few Libyan MiGs
and attacking small puny nations with no AF- Victory?
Gulf War I: had to raise a coalition to fight another Third World
nation, didn't finish the job which leads to Gulf War II. Kurds and
population suffer as a result.
The Balkans: another attack on an unworthy adversary. Serbs leave with
their armor and military/police units intact. International force
needed.
Terrorist attack on the USS Cole: failed
9/11: could prevent terrorist attack, 3000 fatalities
Afghanistan: attack on another unworthy adversary. Taliban and Osama
escape into Pakistan. International force needed again. Failure.
Iraq prewar: Fires at US aircraft for 7 years, US retaliates in 1998,
Iraq resumes firing at US aircraft for 4 more years
Gulf War II: US goes it alone, captures Saddam but cannot get real
reconstruction support or troops needed to finish the job due to
isolating UN and certain European nations- failure
Wow, how underwhelming it all is. We seem to be able to pound into
submission any puny Third World nation without a significant AF. But
we don't dare strike Iran, N Korea, or China. In fact China openly
threatens the US over Taiwan and is militarily developing systems to
defeat our stealth, satellites, and to attack the US with missiles in
the future. Iran has threatened the US over its nuclear reactor and N
Korea has done the same over its nuclear program which we failed to
stop. BTW, try attacking the FSU even at its weakest... they have
twice the nukes we have and we all know the history of those that
invade Mother Russia. On their turf the US would lose, same in China.
So I don't care how many time you say Germany lost. Germany is the
size of 1 US state and took on the world. It took everyone with
everything to beat them.
The US in Vietnam was a Superpower giant with the greatest technology
on earth... and lost to peasants walking through the jungle at night
in pajamas armed with an AK-47, machetes, mines, grenades and RPGs.
The US may be the lone Superpower on paper but our track record
post-WW2 isn't that great.
Rob
|
I'll let other people point out your many errors in that list. Even if
everything you said were true how does it change the fact that you lost WW2?
Other than the Nazi party you had everything going for you. Yet you started a
war you had no hope of winning.
Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired
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ANDREW ROBERT BREEN
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Feb 18, 2004 8:32 pm Post subject: Re: Germany Lost the War... So What? |
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In article <20040218142910.21810.00002205 (AT) mb-m14 (DOT) aol.com>,
Krztalizer <krztalizer (AT) aol (DOT) comint> wrote:
| Quote: | Nazi German post war history:
crickets
|
Add: Occasional war criminals dancing the hemp fandango to general
approval.
--
Andy Breen ~ Interplanetary Scintillation Research Group
http://users.aber.ac.uk/azb/
"Time has stopped, says the Black Lion clock
and eternity has begun" (Dylan Thomas)
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Simon Robbins
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Feb 18, 2004 10:00 pm Post subject: Re: Germany Lost the War... So What? |
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"Keith Willshaw" <keithspam (AT) kwillshaw (DOT) demon.co.uk> wrote
| Quote: | Nope, the Soviet missiles were withdrawn as the US demanded.
|
I don't wish to appear to join the loony "good old days of the Reich" side
of this discussion, but the Cuban missile crisis was such a clear-cut US
victory, since Kennedy negotiated the removal of the Russian missiles by
offering to remove his own from Turkey.
Si
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Keith Willshaw
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Feb 18, 2004 11:14 pm Post subject: Re: Germany Lost the War... So What? |
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"Simon Robbins" <simon (AT) NOSPAMsjrobbins (DOT) demon.co.uk> wrote
| Quote: |
"Keith Willshaw" <keithspam (AT) kwillshaw (DOT) demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:c10g78$k92$1$8302bc10 (AT) news (DOT) demon.co.uk...
Nope, the Soviet missiles were withdrawn as the US demanded.
I don't wish to appear to join the loony "good old days of the Reich" side
of this discussion, but the Cuban missile crisis was such a clear-cut US
victory, since Kennedy negotiated the removal of the Russian missiles by
offering to remove his own from Turkey.
|
Sure but they were early liquid fueled IRBM's (Jupiter IRC) that were
removed
from service worldwide by 1963 in any event.
Keith
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Tuollaf43
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Feb 18, 2004 11:56 pm Post subject: Re: Germany Lost the War... So What? |
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"Keith Willshaw" <keithspam (AT) kwillshaw (DOT) demon.co.uk> wrote
| Quote: | "robert arndt" <teuton263 (AT) aol (DOT) com> wrote in message
news:9b35beb1.0402180946.788a1b0 (AT) posting (DOT) google.com...
The US postwar history:
Facts arent your strong point are they ?
Korea: stalemate
South Korea was saved from the invading forces of the DPRK
and now a prosperous democracy and ally. Meanwhile the
DPRK moulders in a prison of its own making.
Cuban Missile Crisis: stalemate
Nope, the Soviet missiles were withdrawn as the US demanded.
|
And the Jupiters from Turkey as Russia demanded, along with assurances
that US would not invade Cuba. Stalemate.
| Quote: |
Vietnam: LOST
Operation Eagle Claw (Iranian Hostage Rescue): Failure
Lebanon: Marines blown up- failure
True enough
Reagan-Bush years: a string of success shooting down a few Libyan MiGs
and attacking small puny nations with no AF- Victory?
Then there's the little matter of the fall of communism, the
dissolution of the Warsaw Pact and the collapse of the USSR
Gulf War I: had to raise a coalition to fight another Third World
nation, didn't finish the job which leads to Gulf War II. Kurds and
population suffer as a result.
The war aims of expelling Iraq from Kuwait were achieved
The Balkans: another attack on an unworthy adversary. Serbs leave with
their armor and military/police units intact. International force
needed.
The war aims of protecting the Kosovans from Serbian ethnic cleansing
were achieved
Terrorist attack on the USS Cole: failed
Quite so, the ship was repaired and re-entered service
|
It was a very sucessful attack. 56 casualties, a cool quarter billion
in repairs, ship out of the service for more than an year.
| Quote: |
9/11: could prevent terrorist attack, 3000 fatalities
Afghanistan: attack on another unworthy adversary. Taliban and Osama
escape into Pakistan. International force needed again. Failure.
Success , Afghanistan is no longer a safe haven for terrorist groups
|
Terrorists out, drug lords in. And I suppose all those reports of
Taliban resurgence in the Pashtun areas are all propaganda.
| Quote: |
Iraq prewar: Fires at US aircraft for 7 years, US retaliates in 1998,
Iraq resumes firing at US aircraft for 4 more years
Gulf War II: US goes it alone, captures Saddam but cannot get real
reconstruction support or troops needed to finish the job due to
isolating UN and certain European nations- failure
The British troops who took Southern Iraq and Basra tend to disagree
about the going it alone bit.
Wow, how underwhelming it all is. We seem to be able to pound into
submission any puny Third World nation without a significant AF.
Iraq started GW1 with the 4th largest army in the world and
a large AF and air defence system, of course when it was over ....
But
we don't dare strike Iran, N Korea, or China. In fact China openly
threatens the US over Taiwan and is militarily developing systems to
defeat our stealth, satellites, and to attack the US with missiles in
the future. Iran has threatened the US over its nuclear reactor and N
Korea has done the same over its nuclear program which we failed to
stop. BTW, try attacking the FSU even at its weakest... they have
twice the nukes we have and we all know the history of those that
invade Mother Russia. On their turf the US would lose, same in China.
The difference of course is the US knows that, your hero Adolf didnt.
So I don't care how many time you say Germany lost. Germany is the
size of 1 US state and took on the world. It took everyone with
everything to beat them.
Germany had a larger population than any 10 states combined
|
LOL! Tell us more.
| Quote: | and controlled the combined industries of western europe
and couldnt even beat Britain.
|
Before the War Germany was a major (but not predominant) power in
Europe. Today it still is a major (but not predominant) power in
Europe. Before the war Britain was a major world power with a globe
spanning empire - today it is a mere lackey to the US. Germany might
not have won, but Britain sure seems to have lost.
|
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robert arndt
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Feb 19, 2004 12:32 am Post subject: Re: Germany Lost the War... So What? |
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"Keith Willshaw" <keithspam (AT) kwillshaw (DOT) demon.co.uk> wrote
| Quote: | "robert arndt" <teuton263 (AT) aol (DOT) com> wrote in message
news:9b35beb1.0402180946.788a1b0 (AT) posting (DOT) google.com...
The US postwar history:
Facts arent your strong point are they ?
Korea: stalemate
South Korea was saved from the invading forces of the DPRK
and now a prosperous democracy and ally. Meanwhile the
DPRK moulders in a prison of its own making.
|
We're talking war and power here. The Chinese human waves forced us
back until we eventually reached the starting point- the 38th
parallel. MacArthur could have defeated them in 1950 if he was allowed
to bomb the Yalu River bridges but was overruled by Washington. Later,
he was sacked. Big mistake.
| Quote: |
Cuban Missile Crisis: stalemate
Nope, the Soviet missiles were withdrawn as the US demanded.
|
Remember the failed "Bay of Pigs" and Washington's agreement with
Moscow to remove US missiles out of Turkey months later?
| Quote: |
Vietnam: LOST
Operation Eagle Claw (Iranian Hostage Rescue): Failure
Lebanon: Marines blown up- failure
True enough
Reagan-Bush years: a string of success shooting down a few Libyan MiGs
and attacking small puny nations with no AF- Victory?
Then there's the little matter of the fall of communism, the
dissolution of the Warsaw Pact and the collapse of the USSR
|
Which is more due to Soviet citizens standing in line for bread 8 hrs
a day and the forever unattainable 5 year plans they made... not to
mention devoting almost all their resources to defense and the
corruption of the Communist Party elite. Then there was also the KGB
terror and its informer network. The fall was inevitable and without
the USSR the Warsaw Pact was nothing.
| Quote: |
Gulf War I: had to raise a coalition to fight another Third World
nation, didn't finish the job which leads to Gulf War II. Kurds and
population suffer as a result.
The war aims of expelling Iraq from Kuwait were achieved
|
After the nation was brutally raped, robbed, murdered, and
ecologically polluted. Saddam, meanwhile, was untouched and building
more palaces...
| Quote: |
The Balkans: another attack on an unworthy adversary. Serbs leave with
their armor and military/police units intact. International force
needed.
The war aims of protecting the Kosovans from Serbian ethnic cleansing
were achieved
|
Oh please, too little too late. Serb soldiers insulted International
forces as they left Kosovo and threatened ethnic minorities right in
front the peacekeepers.
| Quote: |
Terrorist attack on the USS Cole: failed
Quite so, the ship was repaired and re-entered service
|
A US Naval warship which should have been adequately protected. Taken
out by a raft of explosives.
| Quote: |
9/11: could prevent terrorist attack, 3000 fatalities
|
Biggest disaster of them off and no comment? US the invincible brought
to agony by a few jet liners of terrorists?
| Quote: | Afghanistan: attack on another unworthy adversary. Taliban and Osama
escape into Pakistan. International force needed again. Failure.
Success , Afghanistan is no longer a safe haven for terrorist groups
|
Are you insane? Try going there and leaving Kabul. The rest of the
nation is in the hands of warlords who shelter terrorists and hate the
US. My buddy is over there right now. He says its the same dirt
shithole as ever.
| Quote: |
Iraq prewar: Fires at US aircraft for 7 years, US retaliates in 1998,
Iraq resumes firing at US aircraft for 4 more years
Gulf War II: US goes it alone, captures Saddam but cannot get real
reconstruction support or troops needed to finish the job due to
isolating UN and certain European nations- failure
The British troops who took Southern Iraq and Basra tend to disagree
about the going it alone bit.
|
Oh thank God for British token forces whose own weapons and gear are
shit. I assume you're British, so don't you read your own papers for
God-save-the-Queen sakes!!! All you guys did was sit in the rear and
deliver humanitarian aid while the US drove downtown to Baghdad.
| Quote: |
Wow, how underwhelming it all is. We seem to be able to pound into
submission any puny Third World nation without a significant AF.
Iraq started GW1 with the 4th largest army in the world and
a large AF and air defence system, of course when it was over ....
|
4th largest army stat doesn't mean shit. They were pathetic fighting
soldiers. The Hitler Youth could have taken them out!!!
| Quote: |
But
we don't dare strike Iran, N Korea, or China. In fact China openly
threatens the US over Taiwan and is militarily developing systems to
defeat our stealth, satellites, and to attack the US with missiles in
the future. Iran has threatened the US over its nuclear reactor and N
Korea has done the same over its nuclear program which we failed to
stop. BTW, try attacking the FSU even at its weakest... they have
twice the nukes we have and we all know the history of those that
invade Mother Russia. On their turf the US would lose, same in China.
The difference of course is the US knows that, your hero Adolf didnt.
|
On Russia maybe, but fighting with China in the future is inevitable.
| Quote: |
So I don't care how many time you say Germany lost. Germany is the
size of 1 US state and took on the world. It took everyone with
everything to beat them.
Germany had a larger population than any 10 states combined
and controlled the combined industries of western europe
and couldnt even beat Britain.
|
I could only wish that the political decision to change direction
eastward would have never come and Sea Lion would have happened. What
would have Britain defended itself with then- the Home Guard with
pitch forks and shotguns? You should thank God a lone German bomber
ditched its bombs on London and saved your nation. Germany could have
kept fighting and by the winter of 1940 you would have ran out of
pilots and planes- had the Germans not diverted to civilian targets
like London.
Keep dreaming on,
Rob
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Kevin Brooks
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Feb 19, 2004 1:12 am Post subject: Re: Germany Lost the War... So What? |
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"Tuollaf43" <tuollaf43 (AT) yahoo (DOT) com> wrote
| Quote: | "Keith Willshaw" <keithspam (AT) kwillshaw (DOT) demon.co.uk> wrote
"robert arndt" <teuton263 (AT) aol (DOT) com> wrote in message
news:9b35beb1.0402180946.788a1b0 (AT) posting (DOT) google.com...
The US postwar history:
Facts arent your strong point are they ?
Korea: stalemate
South Korea was saved from the invading forces of the DPRK
and now a prosperous democracy and ally. Meanwhile the
DPRK moulders in a prison of its own making.
Cuban Missile Crisis: stalemate
Nope, the Soviet missiles were withdrawn as the US demanded.
And the Jupiters from Turkey as Russia demanded, along with assurances
that US would not invade Cuba. Stalemate.
|
Older missiles already planned for removal--we had a new program coming
online about that time which you may have heard of...Polaris? We also
removed the Thors from the UK at about the same time, and for the same
reasons--they were liquid fueled and had been made superfluous.
<snip>
| Quote: | Afghanistan: attack on another unworthy adversary. Taliban and Osama
escape into Pakistan. International force needed again. Failure.
Success , Afghanistan is no longer a safe haven for terrorist groups
Terrorists out, drug lords in. And I suppose all those reports of
Taliban resurgence in the Pashtun areas are all propaganda.
|
Uhmmm... the key at this point is,as Keith pointed out, it is no longer
serving as an open bazaar and training ground for terrorists--and that a few
other nations took note and became a bit less receptive of other terrorist
operations.
<snip>
| Quote: |
Germany had a larger population than any 10 states combined
LOL! Tell us more.
|
Uhmmm...the total population of Germany in 1940 was some 80 million, the US
population was about 130 million, with the top four states (NY, PA, TX, CA)
only accounting for some 34 million--so you can run the numbers further if
you like, but it appears Keith's statement is in fact correct.
www.ciaonet.org/book/schweller/appendix.html
| Quote: |
and controlled the combined industries of western europe
and couldnt even beat Britain.
Before the War Germany was a major (but not predominant) power in
Europe. Today it still is a major (but not predominant) power in
Europe.
|
Thank goodness for the Marshall Plan, huh?
Before the war Britain was a major world power with a globe
| Quote: | spanning empire - today it is a mere lackey to the US.
|
That's not correct. The UK remains an independent nation; that it has
happened to agree with the US in more cases than it disagrees is as much a
product of common values than anything else. Reading anything further into
it merely indicates a degree of paranoia on your part.
Germany might
No, there is no doubt--she did not win. Thank goodness for that, huh?
| Quote: | but Britain sure seems to have lost.
|
Lost what? Are you sure you are not confusing the UK with *France*? Now
France *did* lose, just like Germany eventually lost...sorry if that all
upsets you, but them's the facts.
Brooks
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t_mark
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Feb 19, 2004 1:28 am Post subject: Re: Germany Lost the War... So What? |
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| Quote: |
Wow, how underwhelming it all is. We seem to be able to pound into
submission any puny Third World nation without a significant AF. But
we don't dare strike Iran, N Korea, or China.
|
Probably because there's no need to, at least yet.
Here's 'underwhelming' for you in that same period of time.
1. US economy - 11 trillion
2. Japanese economy - 4.7 trillion
3. German economy 1.8 trillion
4 and on down - a bunch of smaller economies, including China at 1.3
trillion.
| Quote: | The US may be the lone Superpower on paper but our track record
post-WW2 isn't that great.
|
Probably because everyone is too scared shitless to screw with us, you
ignorant cluefuck.
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t_mark
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Feb 19, 2004 1:32 am Post subject: Re: Germany Lost the War... So What? |
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You seem to conveniently be forgetting a basic fact: Germany unleashed a
vicious all-out war machine to win at all costs. The United States has yet
to fight a war without severe political constraints dictating what it can
and cannot do. If the US waged Nazi or Soviet-style war and simply employed
its capacity to lay waste to whatever it chose conventionally we would have
produced the sort of 'victories' you see to prize so greatly. Fortunately,
we don't do that since, unlike you, we're not Nazis.
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t_mark
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Feb 19, 2004 2:36 am Post subject: Re: Germany Lost the War... So What? |
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| Quote: | On Russia maybe, but fighting with China in the future is inevitable.
|
Hardly. China is dependent on the US, directly and indirectly, for the
majority of its annual growth and over 20% of its entire economy. That's
not going to change much in the future as the two become more and more
intertwined. To even get into a position to battle America in Asia, much
less elsewhere, would require decades of spending the Chinese can't even
afford to build up to, and have no reason to. It won't be smooth sailing,
but China has vastly more reasons to remain friends if not allies with the
United States than to plunge itself back into the middle of last century and
ruin decades of economic building by trying to fight it.
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Peter Stickney
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Feb 19, 2004 3:01 am Post subject: Re: Germany Lost the War... So What? |
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In article <c10n99$30j$1$8302bc10 (AT) news (DOT) demon.co.uk>,
"Simon Robbins" <simon (AT) NOSPAMsjrobbins (DOT) demon.co.uk> writes:
| Quote: |
"Keith Willshaw" <keithspam (AT) kwillshaw (DOT) demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:c10g78$k92$1$8302bc10 (AT) news (DOT) demon.co.uk...
Nope, the Soviet missiles were withdrawn as the US demanded.
I don't wish to appear to join the loony "good old days of the Reich" side
of this discussion, but the Cuban missile crisis was such a clear-cut US
victory, since Kennedy negotiated the removal of the Russian missiles by
offering to remove his own from Turkey.
|
That seems to be the latest buzz, but its interesting to note that the
Jupiters in Turkey had been slated in 1961 to be retired in 1963-64, a year
before the missile Crisis.
Quite frankly, the Jupiters weren't good for much, anyway. (Despite
being designed by Wehrner von Braun's team at Redstone Arsenal). The
supposed mobility was worthless, they couldn't be based in a hardened
structure like a coffin or silo, and their reaction time (fuelling &
arming) was so long that they were vulnerable to airplanes from
Bulgaria.
Check out "The Other Missiles of October" if you get the chance.
--
Pete Stickney
A strong conviction that something must be done is the parent of many
bad measures. -- Daniel Webster
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Steve Hix
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Feb 19, 2004 4:30 am Post subject: Re: Germany Lost the War... So What? |
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In article <aeb0de85.0402181556.15d8cdd0 (AT) posting (DOT) google.com>,
[email]tuollaf43 (AT) yahoo (DOT) com[/email] (Tuollaf43) wrote:
| Quote: | "Keith Willshaw" <keithspam (AT) kwillshaw (DOT) demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:<c10g78$k92$1$8302bc10 (AT) news (DOT) demon.co.uk>...
"robert arndt" <teuton263 (AT) aol (DOT) com> wrote in message
news:9b35beb1.0402180946.788a1b0 (AT) posting (DOT) google.com...
The US postwar history:
Facts arent your strong point are they ?
Korea: stalemate
South Korea was saved from the invading forces of the DPRK
and now a prosperous democracy and ally. Meanwhile the
DPRK moulders in a prison of its own making.
Cuban Missile Crisis: stalemate
Nope, the Soviet missiles were withdrawn as the US demanded.
And the Jupiters from Turkey as Russia demanded, along with assurances
that US would not invade Cuba. Stalemate.
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The Jupiters were out of service everywhere in any case within two years.
They were replaced...the Russian missiles in Cuba were not.
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