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Journeyman
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 Posted: Mon May 16, 2005 2:34 am Post subject: Fly Until You Can't, Then Land |
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Flew Angel Flight mission #4 today. It began with a call before 8 this
morning, telling me that the scheduled pilot canceled due to weather
and would I be willling to go?
At the time of the call, weather at HPN was around minima due to fog,
but it was scheduled to improve before deteriorating in the afternoon,
with thunderstorms developing. BOS
By the time we were ready to launch on the deadhead leg to BOS,
conditions at HPN had improved comfortably. Conditions landing at BOS
were still pretty good, although I learned a lesson about not accepting
a visual approach clearance when there's a layer of clouds between 500
and 1000' blocking the view of the airport (the approach controller
had me on the ILS to 04R, then vectored me for a base leg visual to
04L, then finally vectored me back toward ILS 04R in a classic slam
dunk). I definitely should've been more assertive about that.
Fortunately, it was the deadhead leg.
Looking at the radar for the return trip, it wasn't looking good.
Weather was moving NE from the SW, and it looked like it was
converging at our destination (CDW--Caldwell, NJ) at about the same
time we'd be arriving there.
So, I launched with the idea of landing short of the destination if I
had to and waiting things out or coming up with an alternate plan to
get the patient into The City.
After leaving the busy BOS airpace, I told the next controller that
I needed a few minutes off frequency to contact Flight Services. I
rarely do that in the busy NE corridor, but this time, I was
concerned about weather and needed the update. Turned out CDW was
reporting SKC, and conditions were similar when I got close enough
to pick up their ATIS.
I did get vectors around one buildup, but the trip was otherwise
uneventful and the flight had very few bumps. It worked out far
better than I would have expected.
The secret to cross country flight is to fly until you can't,
then land. The trick is recognizing when your primary plan
isn't working out while you still have contingency plans to deal
with it safely.
Morris
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Frank Ch. Eigler
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| Posted: Mon May 16, 2005 1:58 pm Post subject: Re: Fly Until You Can't, Then Land |
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Journeyman <journeyman (AT) compilerguru (DOT) com> writes:
| Quote: | [...] The secret to cross country flight is to fly until you can't,
then land. [...]
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You're not very good at keeping secrets!
One might argue that, since you did complete all planned legs, this
decreasingly secret advice was not applicable. One might put it
thusly instead: consider launching even in uncertain conditions, if
you are sure you will have safe alternatives available en route.
- FChE
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Journeyman
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| Posted: Mon May 16, 2005 3:31 pm Post subject: Re: Fly Until You Can't, Then Land |
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In article <y0mmzqve0ht.fsf (AT) toenail (DOT) toronto.redhat.com>, Frank Ch. Eigler wrote:
| Quote: | [...] The secret to cross country flight is to fly until you can't,
then land. [...]
You're not very good at keeping secrets!
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It's not a secret that should be kept.
| Quote: | One might argue that, since you did complete all planned legs, this
decreasingly secret advice was not applicable. One might put it
thusly instead: consider launching even in uncertain conditions, if
you are sure you will have safe alternatives available en route.
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A more accurate, but more cumbersome way of putting it.
Morris
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Journeyman
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| Posted: Mon May 16, 2005 5:02 pm Post subject: Re: Fly Until You Can't, Then Land |
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In article <slrnd8hf64.7dt.journeyman (AT) tripacerdriver (DOT) com>, Journeyman wrote:
| Quote: |
One might argue that, since you did complete all planned legs, this
decreasingly secret advice was not applicable. One might put it
thusly instead: consider launching even in uncertain conditions, if
you are sure you will have safe alternatives available en route.
A more accurate, but more cumbersome way of putting it.
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Apparently, there are still some sore feelings, so we need to
clarify things a bit more. A lot of one-line wisdom has it's
equal and opposite in one-line wisdom. "Beware of Greeks
bearing gifts", but "Don't look a gift horse in the mouth".
Don't take a one-liner as a rule for conducting your life
or death without thinking about it on a deeper level.
Contingency cross-country planning doesn't mean getting in over
your head. It's the opposite. Stop before you get in over your
head. No-one is suggesting you get in over your head.
Uncertain doesn't mean bad. It means you don't know how things
may be developing so you go, with contingency plans in hand,
and watch while you make forward progress. One day you make
it to your destination. Another day, you land short of the
destination and wait it out or do something else.
I cancelled a lot of flights as a rental pilot because I knew
I could get there, but didn't know whether I could get back and
the plane had to be back on time. Many of those flights in
hindsight could have been made, but I wasn't willing to risk
the possibility of not being able to get back.
I promised my Highly Significant Other never to contract a
fatal case of getthereitis. "Fly 'till you can't, then land"
is a cure for that disease when conditions may be tempting
you to launch. Launch if it's good now, but be prepared to
land short of your destination as conditions evolve. I see
that as a Good Thing.
Others see this as Bad Advice, telling you to launch into
Bad Weather. Don't do it. A good pilot is always thinking.
Of course, if anyone launches into bad weather and gets themselves
in over their heads just on the sayso of a random usenet post, the
gene pool can only be improved.
Morris
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Journeyman
Guest
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| Posted: Mon May 16, 2005 8:54 pm Post subject: Re: Fly Until You Can't, Then Land |
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In article <slrnd8hf64.7dt.journeyman (AT) tripacerdriver (DOT) com>, Journeyman wrote:
| Quote: | One might put it
thusly instead: consider launching even in uncertain conditions, if
you are sure you will have safe alternatives available en route.
A more accurate, but more cumbersome way of putting it.
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One more time...
My anonymous email correspondant claims the term "uncertain
conditions" is ambiguous and dangerous advice, especially in
a student newsgroup (we are all students here). Let's all
make the term is understand and agreed-to.
I parse "uncertain conditions" as fundamentally different from
"bad conditions". Uncertain to me means they're good now, but
could deteriorate later. It's okay to launch in those
conditions if you have good options for what to do when things
start deteriorating. Key word is start. Don't press on as
conditions continue deteriorating.
Never fly into "bad conditions". What makes conditions bad
depends on many factors: equipment, skill, experience,
currency, local knowledge, etc, but everyone should have
(or be given by their instructor) minimum conditions.
Never go below your minima. Flying is an unforgiving
activity, and it's easy to slide down a slippery slope.
Never continue into "bad conditions".
When conditions begin to deteriorate, cash in your options
*before* things get bad.
Having options includes understanding how fast things can
deteriorate. If you're heading West and a N/S line of
thunderstorms is heading East, it's reasonable to launch.
You will see the storm coming if it arrives at your
destination before you and the obious option is a 180 back.
Launching VFR toward an airport that is IFR is okay if
the forecast is for conditions to lift before you get there,
*provided* you have some idea of what to do if things
don't improve fast enough. Continued VFR into IMC is
a known killer (and who want their legacy to be a
textbook example?). When it happened to me, last summer,
I decided before launching to change my route to go around
the bad weather.
If temperature/dewpoint has a small but acceptable spread,
it's okay to launch with a dropping temperature if you
keep an eye on the spread and land before they converge.
Snowbird's advice (others have said it but I heard it from
her first): before doing something stupid, ask youself
how it would look on the NTSB report.
I hope this satisfies my correspondant because this will be
my last word on the subject. Any further misunderstanding
is the reader's problem.
Morris
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