AirTalk.org Aviation discussions newsgroups   Archives   FAQ   Search   Memberlist   Usergroups   Register   Profile   Log in to check your private messages   Log in  First A/A Kill of the Gulf War?          AirTalk.org Forum Index -> Naval Aviation View previous topic :: View next topic   Author Message Doug Woody and Erin Beal Guest Posted: Thu Jan 27, 2005 4:30 am    Post subject: First A/A Kill of the Gulf War? According to the NAS Fort Worth Plan of the Week (about 2 weeks ago): An EF-111 out of Mt Home AFB, Mt Home, Idaho, logged the first kill of the Gulf War--much to the chagrin of the entire fighter community, many of whom still refuse to recognize the fact. The EF-111, having no offensive weapons, was jumped by an Iraqi MIG in the first strike of the war and after several defensive maneuvers in Terrain Following by the EF-111, the MIG plowed into the side of a mountain. The ground, having a PK of 1, won. After the war, the aircraft was retired and flown to Wright Patterson AFB where it is on display in the museum. According to the author, he's personal friends with the WSO on this mission. Comments? --Woody Back to top Rob van Riel Guest Posted: Thu Jan 27, 2005 8:51 am    Post subject: Re: First A/A Kill of the Gulf War? On Thu, 27 Jan 2005 04:30:44 +0000, Doug "Woody" and Erin Beal wrote: Quote: Comments? I've always found manoeuver kills a bit dubious, after all, they are no more than death by (encouraged) stupidity. I don't really feel it's a kill unless you had to pull the trigger or ram the bugger. On the other hand, manouever kills are officially accepted, and should be accepted regardless of aircraft type. Rob Back to top D Guest Posted: Thu Jan 27, 2005 12:33 pm    Post subject: Re: First A/A Kill of the Gulf War? ---------- In article <BE1DCA2F.759%dougnerin (AT) earthlink (DOT) net>, "Doug "Woody" and Erin Beal" <dougnerin (AT) earthlink (DOT) net> wrote: Quote: According to the NAS Fort Worth Plan of the Week (about 2 weeks ago): An EF-111 out of Mt Home AFB, Mt Home, Idaho, logged the first kill of the Gulf War--much to the chagrin of the entire fighter community, many of whom still refuse to recognize the fact. How about Speicher's F-18 shot down by a MiG-25? D Back to top José Herculano Guest Posted: Thu Jan 27, 2005 6:45 pm    Post subject: Re: First A/A Kill of the Gulf War? A kill is a kill? ;-) Actually it was not the first kill of the war, but the 4th to happen, on the first day (17 January). Don't know if it is official as of now, but indeed it was absent from the first official listings I saw. EF-111A vs Mirage F1 Pilot: James Denton EWO: Brent Brandon I remember an F-15C credited with a kill over an Iraqi Pilatus PC-9 *prop trainer*! No missiles nor gun... the Eagle showed up and the intrepid iraqi took to the chute. _____________ José Herculano Quote: According to the author, he's personal friends with the WSO on this mission. Comments? --Woody Back to top nafod40 Guest Posted: Thu Jan 27, 2005 8:25 pm    Post subject: Re: First A/A Kill of the Gulf War? José Herculano wrote: Quote: A kill is a kill? ;-) EF-111A vs Mirage F1 Pilot: James Denton EWO: Brent Brandon I remember an F-15C credited with a kill over an Iraqi Pilatus PC-9 *prop trainer*! No missiles nor gun... the Eagle showed up and the intrepid iraqi took to the chute. The ultimate would be a kill by thumping. Back to top Elmshoot Guest Posted: Thu Jan 27, 2005 9:47 pm    Post subject: Re: First A/A Kill of the Gulf War? Quote: The ground, having a PK of 1, won. Woody, As I'm sure you know that there have been occasions that while the ground is hard and unforgiving it's not quite a 1.0 Hey at least the Spark Vark can now be refered to as a Fighter. Back to top Orval Fairbairn Guest Posted: Fri Jan 28, 2005 1:52 am    Post subject: Re: First A/A Kill of the Gulf War? In article <pan.2005.01.27.08.50.58.750000 (AT) mail (DOT) com>, Rob van Riel <robvr (AT) mail (DOT) com> wrote: Quote: On Thu, 27 Jan 2005 04:30:44 +0000, Doug "Woody" and Erin Beal wrote: Comments? I've always found manoeuver kills a bit dubious, after all, they are no more than death by (encouraged) stupidity. I don't really feel it's a kill unless you had to pull the trigger or ram the bugger. On the other hand, manouever kills are officially accepted, and should be accepted regardless of aircraft type. Rob A kill is still a kill! Back to top vincent p. norris Guest Posted: Fri Jan 28, 2005 3:40 am    Post subject: Re: First A/A Kill of the Gulf War? Quote: I remember an F-15C credited with a kill over an Iraqi Pilatus PC-9 *prop trainer*! No missiles nor gun... the Eagle showed up and the intrepid iraqi took to the chute. Seems to me it would take as great or greater skill for an unarmed pilot to fly his enemy into the ground than to shoot him down. I believe I read that someone in a Piper or Stinson liaison plane "killed" a Luftwaffe fighter that way during WW II. OTOH, I don't suppose that Pilatus kill called for much skill on the F-15's part. vince norris Back to top Keith W Guest Posted: Fri Jan 28, 2005 10:18 am    Post subject: Re: First A/A Kill of the Gulf War? "vincent p. norris" <vpn1 (AT) psu (DOT) edu> wrote Quote: I remember an F-15C credited with a kill over an Iraqi Pilatus PC-9 *prop trainer*! No missiles nor gun... the Eagle showed up and the intrepid iraqi took to the chute. Seems to me it would take as great or greater skill for an unarmed pilot to fly his enemy into the ground than to shoot him down. I believe I read that someone in a Piper or Stinson liaison plane "killed" a Luftwaffe fighter that way during WW II. There was a Swordfish pilot credited with 2 kills in WW2. He was being attacked by 2 Italian fighters and he dived for the sea pulling out just above the wavetops. They misjudged their pullout and splashed in either side of him. Keith Back to top vincent p. norris Guest Posted: Sat Jan 29, 2005 2:55 am    Post subject: Re: First A/A Kill of the Gulf War? Quote: There was a Swordfish pilot credited with 2 kills in WW2. He was being attacked by 2 Italian fighters and he dived for the sea pulling out just above the wavetops. They misjudged their pullout and splashed in either side of him. You remind me that in _To War in a Stringbag_, the author tells of accidentally causing the death of a fellow RNAS pilot the same way, in mock combat. vince norris Back to top Tony Volk Guest Posted: Wed Feb 02, 2005 1:42 pm    Post subject: Re: First A/A Kill of the Gulf War? Quote: I remember an F-15C credited with a kill over an Iraqi Pilatus PC-9 *prop trainer*! No missiles nor gun... the Eagle showed up and the intrepid iraqi took to the chute. F-15C vs PC-9? That was a smart Iraqi! 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