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running with scissors
Guest
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 Posted: Thu Feb 26, 2004 3:31 am Post subject: Fine example of Tarver Engineering release for service |
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A fine example of the quality results of Tarver Engineering work. As
singed off by John Tarver with applicable 8130.
http://www.aart-jan.net/images/aart_in_vliegtuigwrak.jpg
photograph courtesy of Aart-Jan, (its not tarver in the pic, it's
Aart's father inspecting the fine work completed by John "the splap"
Tarver).
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Tarver Engineering
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Feb 26, 2004 6:23 am Post subject: Re: Fine example of Tarver Engineering release for service |
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"running with losers" <aabbcc_running_with_scissors (AT) hotmail (DOT) com> wrote in
message news:d0fe9d08.0402251931.1a006776 (AT) posting (DOT) google.com...
"Tarver Engineering" <jtarver (AT) sti (DOT) net> wrote:
| Quote: |
"Gord Beaman" <VE1E0 (AT) NOspam (DOT) rac.ca> wrote in message
news:92bk00944qrpbsgqb76i9rlap5thuluie9 (AT) 4ax (DOT) com...
"Jim Knoyle" <j.knoylenospam (AT) worldnet (DOT) att.net> wrote:
Hang on here a second now Jim, you still need two samples. As Dan
says you need 'static pressure' to read the altitude from and you
need 'pitot pressure' (ram air pressure) as well as the static
pressure to derive the airspeed reading from. Sounds like you're
saying that you can read 'both' from just the 'ram air pressure'
alone. Or did I misunderstand you?
Jim has finally figued out what a pitot tube is, but somehow he still wants
to be correct in his archive troll. It is a great paradox.
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I know...ain't life a bitch John  :)
--
-Gord.
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Sammy@nospam.biz
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Feb 26, 2004 4:39 pm Post subject: Re: Fine example of Tarver Engineering release for service |
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Was that before or after the first flight? ;-)
running with scissors wrote:
| Quote: | A fine example of the quality results of Tarver Engineering work. As
singed off by John Tarver with applicable 8130.
http://www.aart-jan.net/images/aart_in_vliegtuigwrak.jpg
photograph courtesy of Aart-Jan, (its not tarver in the pic, it's
Aart's father inspecting the fine work completed by John "the splap"
Tarver).
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fudog50
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Feb 26, 2004 4:56 pm Post subject: Re: Fine example of Tarver Engineering release for service |
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Ummm,
I performed dozens of the old FAR 91.171 (pitot/static annual
checks) and 91.172 (mode 'C' checks) in the early 90's on Pipers,
Cessna, Grumman, Lanceair, Beech, you name it. Also performed all the
calibration and repair necessary, (the lines, indicators, ports, pitot
tubes, etc.) I worked a part time job at a GA avionics shop at Palo
Alto.
IIRC, the only indicator that had both pitot and static inputs
was the VSI/Rate of climb indicator and the internal bellows in the
gauge performed the differential action. Airspeed has pitot inputs
only. Baro Alt. has static port input only. Wish I could draw you a
diagram on here, it would explain everything.
On Wed, 25 Feb 2004 22:23:23 -0800, "Tarver Engineering"
<jtarver (AT) sti (DOT) net> wrote:
| Quote: |
"running with losers" <aabbcc_running_with_scissors (AT) hotmail (DOT) com> wrote in
message news:d0fe9d08.0402251931.1a006776 (AT) posting (DOT) google.com...
"Tarver Engineering" <jtarver (AT) sti (DOT) net> wrote:
"Gord Beaman" <VE1E0 (AT) NOspam (DOT) rac.ca> wrote in message
news:92bk00944qrpbsgqb76i9rlap5thuluie9 (AT) 4ax (DOT) com...
"Jim Knoyle" <j.knoylenospam (AT) worldnet (DOT) att.net> wrote:
Hang on here a second now Jim, you still need two samples. As Dan
says you need 'static pressure' to read the altitude from and you
need 'pitot pressure' (ram air pressure) as well as the static
pressure to derive the airspeed reading from. Sounds like you're
saying that you can read 'both' from just the 'ram air pressure'
alone. Or did I misunderstand you?
Jim has finally figued out what a pitot tube is, but somehow he still wants
to be correct in his archive troll. It is a great paradox.
I know...ain't life a bitch John
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Tarver Engineering
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Feb 26, 2004 5:58 pm Post subject: Re: Fine example of Tarver Engineering release for service |
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"fudog50" <foodog130 (AT) yahoo (DOT) com> wrote
| Quote: | Airspeed has pitot inputs
only.
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Fascinating, tell us more.
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Jim Knoyle
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Feb 26, 2004 6:59 pm Post subject: Re: Fine example of Tarver Engineering release for service |
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"fudog50" <foodog130 (AT) yahoo (DOT) com> wrote
| Quote: |
On Wed, 25 Feb 2004 22:23:23 -0800, "Tarver Engineering"
[email]jtarver (AT) sti (DOT) net[/email]> wrote:
"running with losers" <aabbcc_running_with_scissors (AT) hotmail (DOT) com> wrote in
message news:d0fe9d08.0402251931.1a006776 (AT) posting (DOT) google.com...
"Tarver Engineering" <jtarver (AT) sti (DOT) net> wrote:
"Gord Beaman" <VE1E0 (AT) NOspam (DOT) rac.ca> wrote in message
news:92bk00944qrpbsgqb76i9rlap5thuluie9 (AT) 4ax (DOT) com...
"Jim Knoyle" <j.knoylenospam (AT) worldnet (DOT) att.net> wrote:
Hang on here a second now Jim, you still need two samples. As Dan
says you need 'static pressure' to read the altitude from and you
need 'pitot pressure' (ram air pressure) as well as the static
pressure to derive the airspeed reading from. Sounds like you're
saying that you can read 'both' from just the 'ram air pressure'
alone. Or did I misunderstand you?
Jim has finally figued out what a pitot tube is, but somehow he still
wants
to be correct in his archive troll. It is a great paradox.
I know...ain't life a bitch John :)
Ummm,
I performed dozens of the old FAR 91.171 (pitot/static annual
checks) and 91.172 (mode 'C' checks) in the early 90's on Pipers,
Cessna, Grumman, Lanceair, Beech, you name it. Also performed all the
calibration and repair necessary, (the lines, indicators, ports, pitot
tubes, etc.) I worked a part time job at a GA avionics shop at Palo
Alto.
IIRC, the only indicator that had both pitot and static inputs
was the VSI/Rate of climb indicator and the internal bellows in the
gauge performed the differential action. Airspeed has pitot inputs
only. Baro Alt. has static port input only. Wish I could draw you a
diagram on here, it would explain everything.
Since posting rubbish like he posted below, no amount of diagrams |
have helped. It's a case of "That's my story and I'm sticking to it!"
Revealing that in my 37 years up the road at SFO I had done easily
hundreds of low range pitot/static leak tests resulting in the replacement
of dozens of pitot tubes/probes/masts or whatever Tarver wants to
call those pointy things up front, only brought about months of fraud
claims and all of the other bits splaps is well known for.
Requoting Gord's question to me out of context is only his latest.
Pt *still* equals (altitude pressure) + (impact pressure).
JK
http://home.att.net/~j.knoyle/the_tarver_chronicles.html
GREAT MOMENTS IN ADA:
"That is the case with all modern transports Gord. Pitot tubes are only
used
for flight test back up instrumentation for modern transports; pitot tubes
have a nasty habbit of atracting mud bees and are therefore not reliable
enough for revenue these past few decades."
-- John Tarver, Skylight Avionics, December 26, 2001
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running with scissors
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Feb 26, 2004 7:15 pm Post subject: Re: Fine example of Tarver Engineering release for service |
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"Tarver Engineering" <jtarver (AT) sti (DOT) net> wrote
| Quote: | "running with losers" <aabbcc_running_with_scissors (AT) hotmail (DOT) com> wrote in
message news:d0fe9d08.0402251931.1a006776 (AT) posting (DOT) google.com...
"Tarver Engineering" <jtarver (AT) sti (DOT) net> wrote:
"Gord Beaman" <VE1E0 (AT) NOspam (DOT) rac.ca> wrote in message
news:92bk00944qrpbsgqb76i9rlap5thuluie9 (AT) 4ax (DOT) com...
"Jim Knoyle" <j.knoylenospam (AT) worldnet (DOT) att.net> wrote:
Hang on here a second now Jim, you still need two samples. As Dan
says you need 'static pressure' to read the altitude from and you
need 'pitot pressure' (ram air pressure) as well as the static
pressure to derive the airspeed reading from. Sounds like you're
saying that you can read 'both' from just the 'ram air pressure'
alone. Or did I misunderstand you?
Jim has finally figued out what a pitot tube is, but somehow he still wants
to be correct in his archive troll. It is a great paradox.
I know...ain't life a bitch John
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snipping posts to claim that other people posted waht someone else
entirely posted.
pathetic, childish, immature, and the sure sign of your desparte need
to obfuscate your stupidity
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Dave Holford
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Feb 26, 2004 8:20 pm Post subject: Re: Fine example of Tarver Engineering release for service |
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[email]Sammy (AT) nospam (DOT) biz[/email] wrote:
| Quote: |
Was that before or after the first flight? ;-)
running with scissors wrote:
A fine example of the quality results of Tarver Engineering work. As
singed off by John Tarver with applicable 8130.
http://www.aart-jan.net/images/aart_in_vliegtuigwrak.jpg
photograph courtesy of Aart-Jan, (its not tarver in the pic, it's
Aart's father inspecting the fine work completed by John "the splap"
Tarver).
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If ever a picture cried out for a caption, this one does.
Dave
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Dan Luke
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Feb 26, 2004 8:57 pm Post subject: Re: Fine example of Tarver Engineering release for service |
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"Dave Holford" wrote:
good idea for a thread...
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Robert Moore
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Feb 26, 2004 9:06 pm Post subject: Re: Fine example of Tarver Engineering release for service |
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fudog50 wrote
| Quote: | IIRC, the only indicator that had both pitot and static inputs
was the VSI/Rate of climb indicator and the internal bellows in the
gauge performed the differential action. Airspeed has pitot inputs
only. Baro Alt. has static port input only. Wish I could draw you a
diagram on here, it would explain everything.
|
Ummmm.....I think that you definately DO NOT recall correctly!
Static Pressure feeds Altimeter, Airspeed, and VSI.
Pitot Pressure feeds only Airspeed.
The Pitot Pressure from the Pitot Tube is a combination of Static
and RAM pressure. The bellows inside the airspeed indicator
uses the ambient static pressure from the static port to cancel
out the static component from the Pitot Tube leaving only the RAM
component to move the airspeed needle.
Bob Moore
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Tarver Engineering
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Feb 26, 2004 9:23 pm Post subject: Re: Fine example of Tarver Engineering release for service |
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"Robert Moore" <rmoore16 (AT) tampabay (DOT) rr.com> wrote
| Quote: | fudog50 wrote
IIRC, the only indicator that had both pitot and static inputs
was the VSI/Rate of climb indicator and the internal bellows in the
gauge performed the differential action. Airspeed has pitot inputs
only. Baro Alt. has static port input only. Wish I could draw you a
diagram on here, it would explain everything.
Ummmm.....I think that you definately DO NOT recall correctly!
Static Pressure feeds Altimeter, Airspeed, and VSI.
Pitot Pressure feeds only Airspeed.
The Pitot Pressure from the Pitot Tube is a combination of Static
and RAM pressure.
|
You remember wrong, as usual, Bob.
IAS is one pressure subtracted from the other.
Since the 1960s, large airliners have used a pitot port and a static port.
The Bombardier GBX being a notable exception to modern pitot/static systems,
with it's prominent nose boom and pitot tube.
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Phil Miller
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Feb 27, 2004 3:21 am Post subject: Re: Fine example of Tarver Engineering release for service |
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On Thu, 26 Feb 2004 13:23:52 -0800, "Tarver Engineering"
<jtarver (AT) sti (DOT) net> wrote:
| Quote: |
"Robert Moore" <rmoore16 (AT) tampabay (DOT) rr.com> wrote in message
news:Xns949BA3F3FA74Armoore16tampabayrrco (AT) 65 (DOT) 32.1.7...
fudog50 wrote
IIRC, the only indicator that had both pitot and static inputs
was the VSI/Rate of climb indicator and the internal bellows in the
gauge performed the differential action. Airspeed has pitot inputs
only. Baro Alt. has static port input only. Wish I could draw you a
diagram on here, it would explain everything.
Ummmm.....I think that you definately DO NOT recall correctly!
Static Pressure feeds Altimeter, Airspeed, and VSI.
Pitot Pressure feeds only Airspeed.
The Pitot Pressure from the Pitot Tube is a combination of Static
and RAM pressure.
You remember wrong, as usual, Bob.
IAS is one pressure subtracted from the other.
|
Which is exactly what Robert said in the bit you snipped. To wit:
"The bellows inside the airspeed indicator uses the ambient static
pressure from the static port to cancel out the static component from
the Pitot Tube leaving only the RAM component to move the airspeed
needle."
| Quote: | Since the 1960s, large airliners have used a pitot port and a static port.
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Please provide one reference for this.
| Quote: | The Bombardier GBX being a notable exception to modern pitot/static systems,
with it's prominent nose boom and pitot tube.
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Ok...So a pitot tube only exists on a nose boom?
And Bombardier GBX? Are you referring to the Bombardier Global Express?
It's the closest I can find on their web site. If so I can't see a
prominent nose boom in the pictures there. Car to enlighten me?
Phil
--
Great Tarverisms #7
Pitot: French word meaning tube.
John
alt.disasters.aviation
25 February 2002
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Tarver Engineering
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Feb 27, 2004 3:25 am Post subject: Re: Fine example of Tarver Engineering release for service |
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"Phil Miller" <philmil (AT) REMOVEoptusnet (DOT) com.au> wrote
Robert is being rediculess to claim that a pitot tube produces some total
pressure and then the static port pressure is subtracted twice to make IAS.
The whole point of using a static port is to be able to take the guts out of
a pitot tube and produce only pitot pressure, thus increasing the
reliability of the system.
Perhaps this will help:
"Tarver Engineering" <jtarver (AT) sti (DOT) net> wrote:
| Quote: |
"Gord Beaman" <VE1E0 (AT) NOspam (DOT) rac.ca> wrote in message
news:92bk00944qrpbsgqb76i9rlap5thuluie9 (AT) 4ax (DOT) com...
"Jim Knoyle" <j.knoylenospam (AT) worldnet (DOT) att.net> wrote:
Hang on here a second now Jim, you still need two samples. As Dan
says you need 'static pressure' to read the altitude from and you
need 'pitot pressure' (ram air pressure) as well as the static
pressure to derive the airspeed reading from. Sounds like you're
saying that you can read 'both' from just the 'ram air pressure'
alone. Or did I misunderstand you?
Jim has finally figued out what a pitot tube is, but somehow he still wants
to be correct in his archive troll. It is a great paradox.
|
I know...ain't life a bitch John :)
--
-Gord.
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Phil Miller
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Feb 27, 2004 3:33 am Post subject: Re: Fine example of Tarver Engineering release for service |
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On Thu, 26 Feb 2004 19:25:26 -0800, "Tarver Engineering"
<jtarver (AT) sti (DOT) net> wrote:
| Quote: |
"Phil Miller" <philmil (AT) REMOVEoptusnet (DOT) com.au> wrote in message
news:evbt30p9rapvm7dhn9h1m93dnivkegr5an (AT) 4ax (DOT) com...
Robert is being rediculess to claim that a pitot tube produces some total
pressure and then the static port pressure is subtracted twice to make IAS.
The whole point of using a static port is to be able to take the guts out of
a pitot tube and produce only pitot pressure, thus increasing the
reliability of the system.
Perhaps this will help:
|
Yes that does help, because what Robert said and what Gord said are
practically identical.
| Quote: | "Gord Beaman" <VE1E0 (AT) NOspam (DOT) rac.ca> wrote in message
news:92bk00944qrpbsgqb76i9rlap5thuluie9 (AT) 4ax (DOT) com...
Hang on here a second now Jim, you still need two samples. As Dan
says you need 'static pressure' to read the altitude from and you
need 'pitot pressure' (ram air pressure) as well as the static
pressure to derive the airspeed reading from.
|
On Thu, 26 Feb 2004 21:06:41 GMT, Robert Moore
<rmoore16 (AT) tampabay (DOT) rr.com> wrote:
| Quote: | The Pitot Pressure from the Pitot Tube is a combination of Static
and RAM pressure. The bellows inside the airspeed indicator
uses the ambient static pressure from the static port to cancel
out the static component from the Pitot Tube leaving only the RAM
component to move the airspeed needle.
|
Phil
--
Great Tarverisms #2
What is the best selling beer in Oz?
Budweiser.
Another illusion shattered.
John
alt.disasters.aviation
18 August 2002
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Phil Miller
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Feb 27, 2004 3:39 am Post subject: Re: Fine example of Tarver Engineering release for service |
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On Fri, 27 Feb 2004 14:33:43 +1100, Phil Miller
<philmil (AT) REMOVEoptusnet (DOT) com.au> wrote:
| Quote: | On Thu, 26 Feb 2004 19:25:26 -0800, "Tarver Engineering"
[email]jtarver (AT) sti (DOT) net[/email]> wrote:
"Phil Miller" <philmil (AT) REMOVEoptusnet (DOT) com.au> wrote in message
news:evbt30p9rapvm7dhn9h1m93dnivkegr5an (AT) 4ax (DOT) com...
Robert is being rediculess to claim that a pitot tube produces some total
pressure and then the static port pressure is subtracted twice to make IAS.
The whole point of using a static port is to be able to take the guts out of
a pitot tube and produce only pitot pressure, thus increasing the
reliability of the system.
Perhaps this will help:
Yes that does help, because what Robert said and what Gord said are
practically identical.
|
Oh! And you didn't enlighten me about the Bombardier GBX?
Phil
--
Great Tarverisms #1
| Quote: | The Air Speed Indicator (ASI) shows
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You made that up, didn't you?
The IAS indicator says IAS, not ASI.
Why do you come here pretending to know something
when you don't even know the words?
John
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