AirTalk.org

Bruce McFadden · Guest

Santa's wife has decided that she would prefer that I fly with oxygen
even below 12.5K and especially at night. So I've been given a tank et
al. I was shocked today when I had it filled at Merucry Air. It is a
415 L size D tank. Because the pressure in their filling tanks were a
bit low, they could only fill my new tank to 1700 lbs, not to a fully
topped off level of 2000 lbs.
They charged me $40 flat fee..... a discount they said because it is a
small cylinder. That seem really steep to me.

Is this about right fur filling an O2 tank. I've heard that it is OK to
have the tank filled at other places such as with medical O2 or welding
O2. Is that OK?

Bruce McFadden Birmingham, AL
PA32-260 N5594J

OtisWinslow · Guest

I've been told by some that they charge mechanic labor rate for
doing the filling.

"Bruce McFadden" <BCMCF (AT) Bham (DOT) RR.COM> wrote

Don Hammer · Guest

Legally you have to use ABO (Aviator's Breathing Oxygen). The only
difference is supposed the quality assurance for contaminants such as
water. My oxygen supplier gets them from the same source and tests it
all to better than ABO standards. He ships bottles marked ABO to
those who require it. Check with some of your local suppliers and
they'll certainly be cheaper than any FBO.

On Thu, 23 Dec 2004 19:28:55 GMT, Bruce McFadden <BCMCF (AT) Bham (DOT) RR.COM>
wrotD:

Frank Stutzman · Guest

Bruce McFadden <BCMCF (AT) bham (DOT) rr.com> wrote:

Frank Stutzman · Guest

Don Hammer <dlh (AT) aol (DOT) com> wrote:

Denny · Guest

This topic has been beaten to death over the years... Search the
archive and you will have enough reading to keep you up past bedtime...
Yes, they are sucking your wallet... You can fill your tank from any
larger oxygen tank... No, there is no difference between medical O2,
breathing O2, welding O2, etc... It all comes from the same tank of
liquid oxygen at the supplier, delivered in the same truck with the
white frost on it, and piped in through the same hoses as he goes from
factory, to hospital, to welding shop, etc...... If you can't find the
archived material drop me a private email and I'll discuss it
further...

Do a quick test next time you night fly... Climb up to 8K or so, level
off, notice the ground lights, turn on the O2, notice the ground lights
get really bright and suddenly have colors to them..
Denny

Blanche Cohen · Guest

Another approach is to have your physician write you an RX then take
it to either a medical supply house or ambulance company, which
ever will take the RX.

Frank Stutzman · Guest

Blanche Cohen <blanche (AT) atlas (DOT) csd.net> wrote:

Almarz · Guest

On Thu, 23 Dec 2004 21:47:53 +0000 (UTC), Frank Stutzman
<stutzman (AT) skylane (DOT) kjsl.com> wrote:

Matt Whiting · Guest

Don Hammer wrote:

Blanche · Guest

Frank Stutzman <stutzman (AT) skylane (DOT) kjsl.com> wrote:

Roy Smith · Guest

In article <cqflle01j6n (AT) enews4 (DOT) newsguy.com>,
Matt Whiting <whiting (AT) chilitech (DOT) net> wrote:

Matt Whiting · Guest

Roy Smith wrote:

Viperdoc · Guest

Our FBO charges $40 for a fill of my tanks, regardless of size. I took it to
our local compressed gas dealer, and they refused to fill the tank, since it
required ABO, which is tested to a higher standard than welding oxygen or
medical oxygen, even though they all come from the same source.

It was totally a cover your ass philosophy- I even told them it was OK by me
to fill with welding oxygen, but they refused due to liability reasons.

Regardless, it will last a reasonably long time at altitude- perhaps the
best advice would be to get a portable oxygen sat meter and just keep your
sat above around 92. Measure your sat at ground level and turn on enough
oxygen at altitude to keep your sat at this level and this should be pretty
conservative.

Dave S · Guest

Ok... here's the skinny..

My frame of reference: Paramedic for 15 years, RN for 6. I've worked
with "cascade" filling systems for 10 of those years in my capacity as a
firefighter.

As someone else said: this has been hashed out before. I'm sure I've
posted lots of detail on this in the past. Some new info tho.

All the oxygen comes from the same source. Gas plant makes it by
liquifying air then distilling the fractions. Its then either shipped
liquid, or vaporized and compressed and shipped in tanks. AFTER its been
distilled and packaged its then labelled. Again.. its all from a common
source and spec.

Up until about 8 years ago I used to refill my own (employer's) portable
medical oxygen tanks (D and E cylinders) from H and M size cylinders. At
that time, some agency interjected themselves in the process (FDA??) and
increased the regulatory requirements for medical oxygen. To be sold as
medical oxygen, the tanks must be numbered so they can be tracked. Upon
empty return, the tanks must be taken down to a vacuum, THEN refilled.
This has essentially ended the LEGAL practice of refilling and
dispensing MEDICAL oxygen containers by the end user. They all get
filled and sealed up the distribution chain.

Aviation oxygen and Welding oxygen do not have these sort of inventory
and vacuum requirements. They also dont have the cost associated with
it. Truth is, now, at the vendor level, the medical oxygen will cost
more than the others.

I priced this not too long ago, and the gas vendor I talked to quoted me
something less than the aforementioned $40, and tank "rental" was $2
month for the non-medical oxygen and $5 month for the medical. You haul
the tanks back and forth and exchange empty big cylinders for full. THEN
you just have a hose and pigtail put together to do your own filling.
Get a 2-bottle "welders cart" and you can put two cylinders on a wheel
around cart and refill your oxygen system MANY times for the cost of the
$40 you spent (not counting startup equipment costs, which should be
about $100 for some high pressure braided hose and fittings).

The "downside" of non-medical oxygen is that if the tank is run
completely dry, to atmospheric pressure, then there is the risk that
contaminants in the air will be drawn into the tank if it's LEFT open to
air. These contaminants can then be placed under pressure and inhaled
later. Marginal to minimal risk, but present nonetheless.

So.. can you do it? Well. I WILL. I already have the rig planned, and
the vendor chosen. I will have the spec sheet on all gas I take delivery
of, and I will make sure it meets the requirements of "aviation oxygen".
I wont be providing it commercially. It will be for private use. And I
plan on a big enough system that I wont be needing to fill it away from
home. I have a bottle from a firefighter's breathing system that is
fiberglass wrapped aluminum. It weighs HALF of what an alum E cylinder
weighs and has double the capacity.

If you plan on doing your own fills, its not rocket science but IT CAN
HURT/KILL YOU if you dont pay attention. Get the vendor to show you the
proper way to transfill. Make a "filling station" out of steel pipe.
Take your time - go slow. ABSOLUTELY NO GREASE OR OIL ANYWHERE near the
valve, fittings or couplings. It will be a BAD DAY if you dont heed the
last one.

Dave

Bruce McFadden wrote: