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Rattyboy · Guest

Ok...

I'm a new student (hi). I have 4 hours of recent flight time (in the
last 6 weeks). I have some time before this but it was so long ago
that it doesn't count.

My instructor is a REAL gem compared to some of the things I've read.
He never does anything stupid (like removing fuses to simulate
failures) and always does our stalls at 2500' AGL.

He also used to fly an A-10 and is doing flight instruction because
he's semi-retired and absolutely LOVES flying and is sincerely
interested in giving something back to the flying community.

Yea, I know, everyone gets misty eyed thinking about such an
instructor. This guy really is that good too. I've learned a TON in
the 4 hours we've been flying compared to the 8 I flew 10 years ago.

Anyway.... I've been studying stalls.

Slipping stall = not too bad, the high wing stalls first.
Skidding stall = brown trousers time in some aircraft that actually
enter a spin.
Coordinated stall = Something that happens in a flight simulator but
probably rarely in real life unless you're flying straight and level.

Ok... he decided to demo these things. I, of course, was petrified at
the thought of intentionally ceasing to fly by hitting that critical
AOA. The first 3 stalls were in straight and level. And WOW. No
real loss of altitude even when we were at about 25 degrees nose up in
a C-172 at the moment of the break. These were power on stalls so
recovery was pretty simple - let go of the controls, let airspeed
build up again, level wings and pull out of the dive. At worst we
lost about 100 feet of altitude.

So I was calming down about stalls now. Then we did one while in full
powered, nose high, 45 degrees of bank, 45-50 knot IAS flight. The
IAS is pretty unreliable in this plane when the stall horn gets to
about 75% volume. It jumps from 40 to 55 to 30 pretty much constantly
at very slow speed.

The damn plane's high wing dropped so severely that we went from a 45
degree right turn into a 60 degree left turn. The nose went from 20
degrees high to about 50 degrees down. THAT was a rough stall.

I was shaking so badly that I was jittering the plane while trying to
control it.

WTF? I _____know_____ that stalling the plane at 2500' AGL is very
safe. Even in that bad stall we lost only 125' of altitude. *that*
is nice. If I can learn to recover like that then I have no real
worries about making my turn to final at about 300 feet. I have a
VERY strong desire to learn how to do these recoveries effeciently cuz
well... I kinda take pride in learning to fly safely. It also keeps
my poor mother from going grey so quickly. <grin>

So.... Tomorrow AM I'm flying and I know we're gonna do some more
stalls. Spins in a 172N are damn near impossible to do unless you do
something silly like actually cross the controls during the stall.
All you have to do to prevent the spin is wait 2 seconds for the
airspeed to get back in flying range, then level the wings, and pull
up.

But... the fear of that sickening drop as the plane plummets through
the air like a rock is nerve racking.

I do NOT want to end up as one of these pilots that lands at 100 kts
because he's afraid of a stall. Flying at 75 kts with full flaps is
WAY over stall speed unless you do a 60 degree bank. grrr.

Advice on overcoming this irrational fear of high altitude stalls?

-rb

BTIZ · Guest

Greg Esres · Guest

<

Your instructor might be going a little overboard in the stall area
with a 4 hr student.

Rattyboy · Guest

On Sun, 22 Feb 2004 21:06:03 -0800, "BTIZ" <btiznospm2 (AT) cox (DOT) nospm.net>
wrote:

Guest · Posted: Mon Feb 23, 2004 5:48 am Post subject: Re: Fear of Stalling

"Rattyboy" wrote :

Casey Webster · Guest

"Greg Esres" <nospam (AT) nospam (DOT) com> wrote

Jon Kraus · Guest

- Cut -
Coordinated stall = Something that happens in a flight simulator but
probably rarely in real life unless you're flying straight and level.

- Cut -

I have to disagree with you on this one. You should ALWAYS fly the
plane coordinated. This is something that your instructor should have
you do as a rule. No matter what keep that ball centered. It will keep
oyu from getting suprised.

- Cut -

The damn plane's high wing dropped so severely that we went from a 45
degree right turn into a 60 degree left turn. The nose went from 20
degrees high to about 50 degrees down. THAT was a rough stall.

- Cut -

That wasn't a rough stall as you put it, it was because you didn't have
the ball centered. Please ask your instructor about this. It will keep
you out of trouble. Learn to fly coordinated all the time. Good luck and
let us know of your progress.

Jon Kraus
PP-ASEL
Student-IA

Rattyboy wrote:

Corky Scott · Guest

On Mon, 23 Feb 2004 11:58:08 GMT, Jon Kraus <jkraus (AT) indy (DOT) rr.com>
wrote:

Rattyboy · Guest

On Mon, 23 Feb 2004 11:58:08 GMT, Jon Kraus <jkraus (AT) indy (DOT) rr.com>
wrote:

Oh, yea, coordinated flight is critical to my instructor. The plane
we're in makes it tough to be _perfectly_ coordinated. He's better at
it than I am. I can actually tell when I'm not coordinated by the
pressure on my butt in the seat.

Rattyboy · Guest

On Mon, 23 Feb 2004 13:37:54 GMT,
[email]charles.k.scott (AT) greetings (DOT) dartmouth.edu[/email] (Corky Scott) wrote:

C J Campbell · Guest

"Greg Esres" <nospam (AT) nospam (DOT) com> wrote

C J Campbell · Guest

Don't like that sudden drop, eh? It can take some getting used to. I hated
it myself when I was learning to fly. Some people like it, but us sensible
ones think it is just a whole lot of no fun. As an instructor I began to
lose all sense and now I like stalls.

One technique that I use with students who are afraid of stalls is I have
them set up for an approach to landing or power off stall: minimum airspeed,
carb heat on, flaps full. I have them reduce power to idle so that we are
gliding in that configuration. Then I have the student take the yoke by the
stem with both hands. This helps you fight the temptation to control the
airplane with aileron. Then I have the student pull back on the yoke until
the airplane stalls. Instead of recovering, I instruct the student to
maintain the stall as long as possible, using the rudder pedals to keep the
airplane from turning and/or dropping a wing. With a little practice you
eventually get to where you can control the airplane throughout the stall.
You learn that the airplane can do absolutely nothing that you will not let
it do. The airplane will just stall, drop the nose, stall, drop the nose,
etc. Be sure to recover at a safe altitude.

If you are dropping a wing on your stalls it is because you are not
aggressive enough with the rudder. Of course, when you are doing something
like a cross-controlled stall your rudder is already set to force a wing to
drop, but you should be able to prevent a wing from dropping in most types
of stall.

The temptation to control the wings with aileron is very powerful, but you
must resist it if you want complete control of the airplane in a stall.

Another problem I see is students often have difficulty getting the airplane
to stall in the first place. They pitch up at low power, develop a healthy
rate of descent, but the stall never breaks. I have them continue to pull
the yoke back just enough to keep the airspeed dropping. Eventually the
airplane will stall. I don't have students pull back the yoke any more than
what is necessary to keep the airspeed decreasing because it is more
difficult to keep your wings level and maintain your heading if your stall
entry is too violent.

The 172N will spin, but you have to hold it there. It can enter a spin very
suddenly. If you do enter a spin you can either have your instructor
recover, you can just let go of the controls and let the airplane recover by
itself, or you can do a normal spin recovery: power idle, neutralize the
ailerons, rudder to stop the spin, recover from the resulting stall and
dive. Cessna put that big fence in front of the tail to slow spins down, not
prevent them. If you want to spin really fast in a 172 you have to get an
early model from before the tail was re-designed to include a fence. Even
then, it is a bit of a stretch to say "really fast."

Michael 182 · Guest

Nomen:

If you have a second... What is a PGP signed message, and why do you use it?

Thanks,

Michael

"Nomen Nescio" <Use-Author-Supplied-Address-Header@[127.1]> wrote

Bob Gardner · Guest

But every student is an individual. Rigid adherence to a syllabus has caused
many a prospective pilot to drop out. As I have said many times in the past,
I have had students for whom the first four or five hours were just airplane
rides, getting used to moving in three dimensions and getting rid of
unreasonable fears.

Bob Gardner

"C J Campbell" <christophercampbellNOSPAM (AT) hotmail (DOT) com> wrote

Bob Gardner · Guest

Gee, Jon, no slips?

Bob Gardner

"Jon Kraus" <jkraus (AT) indy (DOT) rr.com> wrote