AirTalk.org

Brian J. McCann · Guest

A couple of night ago the History Channel aired a program about the
F-14. During the promo it was stated that the Tomcat is the world's
fastest fighter. I dunno, every aviation book in my house puts it
clearly behind the F-15 and the MiG 25.

Also, the program stated that the Shah of Iran ordered a fly-off
between the F-14 and the F-15 in order to decide which one he was
gonna buy. But when the narrator was talking about the Eagle, they
showed footage of what was clearly an F-5.

So, what's going on here? Am I wrong, is the Tomcat actually faster
than the Eagle. And what's up with the F-5 footage? Did the US offer
the Shah F-5s or F-15s? Did the documentary show the wrong footage,
or did the narrator misread the copy, or was he given the wrong copy?
When I get confusing information from a documentary it makes me doubt
the validity of the entire work.

Did anyone else see the program, or can anyone give me some clear and
unimpeachable facts?

Thanks in advance,
Brian J. McCann

Keith Willshaw · Guest

"Brian J. McCann" <bjm4789 (AT) hotmail (DOT) com> wrote

Ogden Johnson III · Guest

"Keith Willshaw" <keith (AT) kwillshaw_NoSpam (DOT) demon.co.uk> wrote:

JD · Guest

Actually if you were to compare the F14 with the F110 engines to the
F15, the acceleration at SL would be even from M0.5 to M0.9. This is
with the F14 wings set to "Auto". If the F14 wings were set to manual
and the wings set fully aft, the F14 would be a lot faster.

With a F14 with the TF30 engines, SL accleration at the same Mach,
would be a second slower than the F110.

The main advantange of the F14 is that can change its flight profile
or in this case, drag profile. Parasitic drag at 68 deg vs 45 deg
(F15) would be lower in the former. So with the said, going over
speeds over the Mach, the F14B/D will reach the goal quicker by
several seconds.

During the F14 v F15 fly off, I recall reading that the F14 camp let
the fuel burn fast as they were at a high idle (To increase the T:W)
while the F15's demo was in progress and that the F14 pilots took
account for the weather (wind) before their time was next. What this
knowledge was used for was the slow fly by in which it looked like the
aircraft was at a standstill since the aircraft was flying at 95KIAS
"dirty" as flew into the wind. During their demonstration, they hit
8Gs at in the mid 300kias range and performed touch and go's and
accelerated into the vertical. Their demonstration also showed that
the F14A took off and landed in a shorter distance than the F15.

Julian

Elmshoot · Guest

Andrew Toppan · Guest

On 9 Oct 2003 22:17:57 -0700, [email]bjm4789 (AT) hotmail (DOT) com[/email] (Brian J. McCann) wrote:

Guy Alcala · Guest

Ogden Johnson III wrote:

Ogden Johnson III · Guest

Guy Alcala <g_alcala (AT) junkpostoffice (DOT) 4pacbell.net> wrote:

Pechs1 · Guest

bjm-<< A couple of night ago the History Channel aired a program about the
F-14. During the promo it was stated that the Tomcat is the world's
fastest fighter. I dunno, every aviation book in my house puts it
clearly behind the F-15 and the MiG 25. >> 

Must've been written by Grumman...
P. C. Chisholm
CDR, USN(ret.)
Old Phart Phormer Phantom, Turkey, Viper, Scooter and Combat Buckeye Phlyer

Pechs1 · Guest

JD-<< Actually if you were to compare the F14 with the F110 engines to the
F15, the acceleration at SL would be even from M0.5 to M0.9. This is
with the F14 wings set to "Auto". If the F14 wings were set to manual
and the wings set fully aft, the F14 would be a lot faster. >> 

'A lot'??-manual aft, airsource off type acceleration?

P. C. Chisholm
CDR, USN(ret.)
Old Phart Phormer Phantom, Turkey, Viper, Scooter and Combat Buckeye Phlyer

JD · Guest

Pechs1,

I have read a statement by an F14 RIO that in the 90's that the F14
was known as the "world's fastest or quickest aircraft" this may have
changed since some of the aircraft had their engines changed. Mind
you, he was saying this when he was in the Bravo version.

jd

[email]pechs1 (AT) aol (DOT) com[/email] (Pechs1) wrote in message news:<20031103093459.27614.00000221 (AT) mb-m04 (DOT) aol.com>...

John Carrier · Guest

Actually, the wings were programmed for best cruise which targets least drag
for current speed. A level acceleration closely hits those airspeed check
points ... there's no advantage to sweeping the wings on a level accel
because induced drag and trim drag will initially (at the starting speed of
the accel) increase significantly with the wing sweep. Unloaded (and
following optimum flight path for max PsubS) there's an advantage to
sweeping the wings. There are times when an unload is practical. There are
others when it is not.

Pete's right. airsource off helps.

R / John

"Pechs1" <pechs1 (AT) aol (DOT) com> wrote

nafod40 · Guest

John Carrier wrote:

Pechs1 · Guest

jdata-<< I have read a statement by an F14 RIO that in the 90's that the F14
was known as the "world's fastest or quickest aircraft" this may have
changed since some of the aircraft had their engines changed. Mind
you, he was saying this when he was in the Bravo version. >> 

-110 engines did make a HUGE difference...but rmember the RIO was looking at
perhaps the last tactical seat available in the F-14 for NFOs, so I am sure a
lot of them really talked up the A/C..Good thing the F-18F came along or these
guys would be SOL...and may be 'soon' anyway, Isn't the USN JSF single seat??

P. C. Chisholm
CDR, USN(ret.)
Old Phart Phormer Phantom, Turkey, Viper, Scooter and Combat Buckeye Phlyer

JD · Guest

You have a very good point. Yes, the F35 is only a single seater
although LM does have a 2 seater "mockup".

Julian

[email]pechs1 (AT) aol (DOT) com[/email] (Pechs1) wrote in message news:<20031104104554.13828.00000199 (AT) mb-m11 (DOT) aol.com>...