AirTalk.org Aviation discussions newsgroups   Archives   FAQ   Search   Memberlist   Usergroups   Register   Profile   Log in to check your private messages   Log in  Engine analyzers Goto page 1, 2  Next          AirTalk.org Forum Index -> Owning Airplanes View previous topic :: View next topic   Author Message pgbnh Guest Posted: Mon Oct 02, 2006 7:41 pm    Post subject: Engine analyzers Any recommendations (positive or negative) for engine analyzers. To be installed in a Beech Sierra, IO360-A1B6 engine. What features are most useful, which less so. Is fuel flow per cylinder important? My mechanic likes the JPI. Any specific feedback on them would be helpful. We would install the analyzer for a few reasons: 1. Desire for early problem detection in an engine that is already beyond TBO (the engine was rebuilt, but not overhauled, as a result of a prop strike about 800 houir ago). If things are beginning to go bad, I am hoping that the analyzer will find them first 2. Desire to 'pamper' a 'senior-citizen' engine that, other than age and hours, runs great, great compression, consistent oil use 3. Maybe even save some fuel dollars thru more effective leaning (only have egt now) Thanks in advance for your thoughts Back to top Robert M. Gary Guest Posted: Wed Oct 04, 2006 4:13 am    Post subject: Re: Engine analyzers I'm very happy with my JPI. I originally got it for the reasons you did, however, what I really like about it now is that when I have a 30 year old factory instrument it isn't working as well as I'd like, I can just plug a sensor into the JPI and have a digital gauge for the same. I've added fuel flow (LOVE IT!!, couldn't live without it), OAT, oil temp. At one point I was tracking down a strange, intermitant electrical issue. Being able to read the exact voltage off the JPI really made it easier to dignose the problem in flight (low charge vs. no charge). The only complaint I have with the JPI and GEM systems is that you are doing a LOT with a couple of buttons. It gets to be quiet a dance trying to figure out all the combinations of things you can do with two buttons, especially once you add more features like fuel flow. Also, I often fly with students who hate their JPI and can't figure out how to make it show peak EGT. The problem is almost always that they have a really old version of the software. Upgrading the unit addresses the problem. Also, at one point JPI tried to make the output of the unit (you can download everything to your PC) propietary. That is now long since history but people will often bring it up as a grip. I don't have as much time behind the GEM system. -Robert pgbnh wrote: Quote: Any recommendations (positive or negative) for engine analyzers. To be installed in a Beech Sierra, IO360-A1B6 engine. What features are most useful, which less so. Is fuel flow per cylinder important? My mechanic likes the JPI. Any specific feedback on them would be helpful. We would install the analyzer for a few reasons: 1. Desire for early problem detection in an engine that is already beyond TBO (the engine was rebuilt, but not overhauled, as a result of a prop strike about 800 houir ago). If things are beginning to go bad, I am hoping that the analyzer will find them first 2. Desire to 'pamper' a 'senior-citizen' engine that, other than age and hours, runs great, great compression, consistent oil use 3. Maybe even save some fuel dollars thru more effective leaning (only have egt now) Thanks in advance for your thoughts Back to top Newps Guest Posted: Wed Oct 04, 2006 4:31 am    Post subject: Re: Engine analyzers Robert M. Gary wrote: Quote: Also, at one point JPI tried to make the output of the unit (you can download everything to your PC) propietary. That is now long since history but people will often bring it up as a grip. JPI's problem is a fundamental way of thinking of customers as idiots. They know better so shut the hell up. My avionics shop wanted to sell me a JPI analyzer. I said anyopdy but JPI, never, ever JPI. They readily acknoweledge they don't like JPI's attitude either and especially can't stand their president but they make good stuff. They do make good stuff but I'll never buy it. Back to top Robert M. Gary Guest Posted: Wed Oct 04, 2006 4:48 am    Post subject: Re: Engine analyzers I spoke to their president once and complained about the fact that their individual fuel flow unit was less expensive than adding it to my EDM. The company line is that integrating the two is of value, but unless you are running a full 800 with HP it really doesn't buy you much other than to graph them together. However, he took out a business card and wrote on the back that I could purchase the fuel flow addition to my EDM for the cost of the independent unit. -robert Newps wrote: Quote: Robert M. Gary wrote: JPI's problem is a fundamental way of thinking of customers as idiots. They know better so shut the hell up. My avionics shop wanted to sell me a JPI analyzer. I said anyopdy but JPI, never, ever JPI. They readily acknoweledge they don't like JPI's attitude either and especially can't stand their president but they make good stuff. They do make good stuff but I'll never buy it. Back to top Paul kgyy Guest Posted: Wed Oct 04, 2006 5:14 am    Post subject: Re: Engine analyzers I have the JPI EDM700 with fuel flow and consider it an excellent instrument. It's been extremely valuable in both pinpointing and isolating abnormalities in cylinder performance. The fuel totalizer is really great on long trips. I have it linked to my Garmin 430 for "fuel at arrival" estimates en route. I also like the "mpg" readout for tuning mixture and headwinds. Back to top Guy Byars Guest Posted: Wed Oct 04, 2006 5:25 am    Post subject: Re: Engine analyzers Quote: The fuel totalizer is really great on long trips. I have it linked to my Garmin 430 for "fuel at arrival" estimates en route. I also like the "mpg" readout for tuning mixture and headwinds. I agree. I especially like the feature that shows the number of gallons of reserve you will have at your destination. Once on a long trip with strong headwinds (5 hours!), It was very reassuring to know that after adjusting my cruising altitude, I would have a 20 gallon reserve. Back to top Robert M. Gary Guest Posted: Wed Oct 04, 2006 6:12 am    Post subject: Re: Engine analyzers I remember that. I don't recall if it was in USNET or in one of the owner's mailing lists but someone shared some quotes from the JPI rep. The guy was surely rude. I guess I can see why someone would not be happy with JPI. However, I'd not had much reason to talk to the JPI guys and I'm happy with the product, but I'm not buying gas at CITCO ;) -Robert Newps wrote: Quote: One of the employees of JPI got on the Cessna Pilots Assoc message board, CPA provides free aceess to any vendor who wants it, last winter I think and basically told the whole community they were idiots, this went on for weeks. Quit bitchin' about our new proprietary software and by the way EI and everybody else sucks. It was a textbook case of how not to treat customers. There is absolutely nothing JPI can ever do to get my business. Nothing. If I had their shit in my plane I would immediately remove it. Back to top Newps Guest Posted: Wed Oct 04, 2006 6:12 am    Post subject: Re: Engine analyzers One of the employees of JPI got on the Cessna Pilots Assoc message board, CPA provides free aceess to any vendor who wants it, last winter I think and basically told the whole community they were idiots, this went on for weeks. Quit bitchin' about our new proprietary software and by the way EI and everybody else sucks. It was a textbook case of how not to treat customers. There is absolutely nothing JPI can ever do to get my business. Nothing. If I had their shit in my plane I would immediately remove it. Robert M. Gary wrote: Quote: I spoke to their president once and complained about the fact that their individual fuel flow unit was less expensive than adding it to my EDM. The company line is that integrating the two is of value, but unless you are running a full 800 with HP it really doesn't buy you much other than to graph them together. However, he took out a business card and wrote on the back that I could purchase the fuel flow addition to my EDM for the cost of the independent unit. -robert Newps wrote: Robert M. Gary wrote: JPI's problem is a fundamental way of thinking of customers as idiots. They know better so shut the hell up. My avionics shop wanted to sell me a JPI analyzer. I said anyopdy but JPI, never, ever JPI. They readily acknoweledge they don't like JPI's attitude either and especially can't stand their president but they make good stuff. They do make good stuff but I'll never buy it. Back to top Jay Honeck Guest Posted: Thu Oct 05, 2006 3:36 am    Post subject: Re: Engine analyzers Quote: My mechanic likes the JPI. Any specific feedback on them would be helpful. We have flown with the EDM-700 since having our engine rebuilt (at the same time we bought the plane, a '74 Cherokee Pathfinder) in 2002. We've now used it for 500+ hours, and know it very well. 1. The engine monitor is irreplaceable in the diagnostic role. When we are on the take-off roll, the co-pilot (my wife and are both pilots, and we have some pretty rigorous CRM) calls out "6 good bars" -- meaning that we have all six cylinders firing, and that the bars are straight across, meaning that they're all about the same temperature. If they're not, we'll abort. We invented this procedure after losing our #2 cylinder on takeoff from Titusville, FL, back in '04. The JPI made diagnosing the problem nearly instantaneous -- but it probably would have been noticeable before rotation if we had used this procedure back then. As it worked out, we flew the pattern on 5 cylinders, and landed without incident. 2. The add-on digital oil temperature is excellent, as opposed to the very inaccurate, hard to read Piper gauge. 3. The "lean-find" feature is something you use about 10 times, and then you forget about it. 4. The "shock-cooling alarm" (it blinks when your EGTs drop more than 50 degrees in a prescribed amount of time) is nice to raise awareness of the problem. You can use the JPI to slowly retard your throttle on descents, and keep your EGTs within a very narrow temperature range. (The jury is still out on "shock cooling", IMHO -- but the engine is so expensive, I pretend it really exists and fly accordingly, under the "this can't hurt anything" rule of engine management) We have not added the fuel flow option, as our plane came equipped with the JPI FS-450 digital fuel flow meter. It's a great tool, and I would not fly without it by choice anymore. -- Jay Honeck Iowa City, IA Pathfinder N56993 www.AlexisParkInn.com "Your Aviation Destination" Back to top randall g Guest Posted: Thu Oct 05, 2006 6:11 am    Post subject: Re: Engine analyzers On 4 Oct 2006 15:36:27 -0700, "Jay Honeck" <jjhoneck (AT) mchsi (DOT) com> wrote: Quote: It's a great tool, and I would not fly without it by choice anymore. I agree, and I shudder when I think of how blind I was flying all those rental airplanes... randall g =%^)> PPASEL+Night 1974 Cardinal RG http://www.telemark.net/randallg Lots of aerial photographs of British Columbia at: http://www.telemark.net/randallg/photos.htm Vancouver's famous Kat Kam: http://www.katkam.ca Back to top karl gruber Guest Posted: Fri Oct 06, 2006 5:18 am    Post subject: Re: Engine analyzers Because all the experienced LOP users do the BRP, and then enrichen to desired max CHT. Karl "Curator" N185KG "Andrew Gideon" <ag7337 (AT) gideon (DOT) org> wrote in message news:pan.2006.10.05.21.05.50.77252 (AT) gideon (DOT) org... Quote: On Thu, 05 Oct 2006 16:25:36 -0400, Dave Butler wrote: What's the TLAR method? Thought you'd never ask. "That Looks About Right". Please hand back my leg when you're done with it. Laugh - Andrew P.S. I still want to know the answer to my original question: why does one cease using "lean find"? Back to top Peter R. Guest Posted: Fri Oct 06, 2006 6:01 am    Post subject: Re: Engine analyzers karl gruber <removeskywagon (AT) gmail (DOT) com> wrote: Quote: Because all the experienced LOP users do the BRP, and then enrichen to desired max CHT. Karl, what about Tornado Alley's recommendation to use turbo inlet temperature, which is enrichen to peak TIT, then lean back to 50-100 degrees lean of peak TIT? Would that not be considered an alternate method used by experienced LOP operators? -- Peter Back to top Peter R. Guest Posted: Fri Oct 06, 2006 6:10 am    Post subject: Re: Engine analyzers Andrew Gideon <ag7337 (AT) gideon (DOT) org> wrote: Quote: P.S. I still want to know the answer to my original question: why does one cease using "lean find"? In the case of my JPI EDM-800, the unit does not have the firmware update that includes a lean-find for lean of peak operations. Its lean-find feature is only for rich of peak operations. To answer your question, if I had a lean find I could see myself not using it after awhile since I have come to know what temperatures and fuel flow result in 65 to 75% horsepower, or optimal lean of peak operations. Thus, it is faster for me to simply pull the mixture to a safe lean of peak turbo inlet temperature, let the airspeed and fuel flow stabilize for a few minutes, then adjust the mixture to the optimal TIT. Optimal TIT plus fuel flow results in cooler CHTs in my aircraft. -- Peter Back to top karl gruber Guest Posted: Fri Oct 06, 2006 6:11 am    Post subject: Re: Engine analyzers On a turbo engine Karl "Peter R." <pjricc (AT) gmailX (DOT) com> wrote in message news:j8olyxvip3lv$.dlg@ID-259643.user.individual.net... Quote: karl gruber <removeskywagon (AT) gmail (DOT) com> wrote: Because all the experienced LOP users do the BRP, and then enrichen to desired max CHT. Karl, what about Tornado Alley's recommendation to use turbo inlet temperature, which is enrichen to peak TIT, then lean back to 50-100 degrees lean of peak TIT? Would that not be considered an alternate method used by experienced LOP operators? -- Peter Back to top Peter R. Guest Posted: Fri Oct 06, 2006 6:11 am    Post subject: Re: Engine analyzers Matt Barrow <mbarrow (AT) site_fill (DOT) com> wrote: Quote: How about this one? http://www.buy-ei.com/EI_MVP-50_Glass_Panel_Engine_Monitor_Display.htm IMO, the JPI's EDM930 display seems cleaner and easier to spot crucial information. -- Peter Back to top Display posts from previous: All Posts1 Day7 Days2 Weeks1 Month3 Months6 Months1 Year Oldest FirstNewest First         AirTalk.org Forum Index -> Owning Airplanes All times are GMT Goto page 1, 2  Next Page 1 of 2   Jump to: Select a forum Aviation----------------alt.aviationAviation safety EnhancementPlanes, gliders and flying in AustraliaAviation et pilotage (Français)rec.aviationAviation (Aerobatics)Hot air, gas balloons and airshipsHang-gliding, paragliding, foot-launched flightAircraft Design & BuildingInstrument Flight RulesAviation (Classifieds)Military AircraftNaval AviationAviation (Miscellaneous Topics)Owning AirplanesAviators (General Discussions)Aviation related productsAircraft RestorationHelicopters and rotary wing aircraftsFlight SimulationSailplanesAviation (Students)Light aircraftFlying related activities in the UK Airports----------------alt.airportsEdinburgh Airport Glasgow Airport Humberside Airport Luton Airport Aberdeen Airport Glasgow Prestwick Airport  You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2006 phpBB Group SEO toolkit © 2004-2006 webmedic.