AirTalk.org

Bruno · Guest

Dear All,

I'm following an airline pilot course in Belgium, and I'm to begin with the
IFR training next week in a FNPT2 simulator. Therefore, I would like to use
a computer based simulator to train the procedures at home, but I don't
really know what's the best of Flight Simulator 2004 that I own, On Top 8.0
that costs about 100 US dollars or Elite 8.0 that cost much more (about 250
dollars).

Could those of you who know those pc based simulators tell me if it's worst
paying for it, or if the Flight Simulator 2004 will be enough?

Thank you for your help,

Bruno,
Brussels

John Clonts · Guest

My $.02-- FS2004 is good enough for procedures and scan. Don't bother
buying a yoke or pedals. Use a cheap "gamepad" type controller with
thumb-joystick (instead of a grip/wrist joystick). Go to "user
controlled weather, advanced" and turn turbulence to max, both on the
clouds panel and the winds panel. Give yourself a 30 knot crosswind
while you're at it.

I also used X-plane and On Top, but settled on FS2004... no experience
with Elite though.

--
Cheers,
John Clonts
Temple, Texas
N7NZ

bdlongworth@surfbest.net · Guest

Bruno,
We started with MS FS 2002/2004 then gave Xplane a try. After trying
out the Elite program when checking out a Flight school, we bought the
program along with the IFR training manual It was worth every penny and
more. We got our instrument ratings two weeks ago but still plan to
continue using it for practices before every instrument flight.
You can download the demo program (fully functional but with 5 minute
time limit) to give it a try. Aside from the IFR training syllabus,
Elite also offer Instrument approach scenarios which are also quite
helpful.
Regarding hardware, we started with a joystick and rudder pedals then
replaced the joystick with the CH flight yoke. The joystick worked OK
but the yoke seemed to be closer to flying our plane.
Hai Longworth

Ron Natalie · Guest

Bruno wrote:

Tim@Backhome.org · Guest

What about the fact that Elite uses an old GPS box that is clunky,
difficult to use, and not even on the market any longer?

Also, as I recall, all user waypoints are lost when exiting the program.

Sure, I realize they have a Garmin interface if you have all their
expensive hardware, but no one at home would have that stuff.

I find Elite, at least for home use, stuck in the VOR/ILS/DME daze.

"bdlongworth (AT) surfbest (DOT) net" wrote:

Stubby · Guest

Ron Natalie wrote:

tscottme · Guest

"Bruno" <mongkon.anousak (AT) skynet (DOT) be> wrote

bdlongworth@surfbest.net · Guest

Tim,
I do not believe that having a more modern GPS is essential for
IFR training. My husband started IFR training a year before me. He
used MS FS in conjunction with a traditional training program. In
witnessing his slow progress, I decided to spend time with a good
simulator program like Elite before starting mine. The structured
training syllabus was of tremendous help for me to get a feel of
instrument flying. After spending two weeks finishing up all the
lessons on the simulator, I resumed my book learning for the written
test. We then doing some hoodtime serving as each other's safety
pilot. When we took the accelerated IFR training course with Bill
Zaleski, very little time was spend on his PCATD. After 5 days, he
talked us into trying for the checkride. I believe that our practices
on the Elite, the many great books that we read (Gardner's, Dogan's,
Sollman's, Butcher's etc.) along with our own practices in our plane
had prepared us well for the actual training.
Our plane currently does not have a certified GPS, we plan to add
it in the near future. In the meantime, the basic VOR/ILS/localizer
etc. serve us well in our instrument flying.

Hai Longworth

paul kgyy · Guest

I use On Top to do refresher work and find it helpful, but there are
some things I definitely don't like about it.
1. The Arrow power model has no relation to actual power settings in a
real Arrow.
2. The GPS is nearly useless. You have to put your own approach fixes
into the database, though it does remember them when you shut down.
3. The avionics panel has to be switched on and off. When it's on, it
covers the CDI. I rationalize this extra workload to compensate for
the fact that I'm not talking to ATC.

I do like the ability to "re-fly" the flight to review how well I did
holds and approaches.

Ron Natalie · Guest

Stubby wrote:

Bruno · Guest

Thank you very much for your answers.
I think I'll try on FS2004 for the moment.

Bruno

Bob Gardner · Guest

Gotta wonder how the many thousands of purchasers of On Top have swallowed
their dismay and neglected to write letters to the editor, to ASA, to the
Better Business Bureau, to Aviation Consumer, et al, complaining about being
ripped off? Seems to me that a product so deeply flawed would have been
bad-mouthed so widely that ASA would have pulled it off the market. You seem
to be the only person unhappy with the product.

Bob Gardner

"Ron Natalie" <ron (AT) spamcop (DOT) net> wrote

Stubby · Guest

Bruno wrote:

Ron Natalie · Guest

Bob Gardner wrote:

Bruno · Guest

"Stubby" <William.Plummer-NOSPAM- (AT) comcast (DOT) net> wrote