AirTalk.org Aviation discussions newsgroups   Archives   FAQ   Search   Memberlist   Usergroups   Register   Profile   Log in to check your private messages   Log in  EFIS          AirTalk.org Forum Index -> Sailplanes View previous topic :: View next topic   Author Message jacekkobiesa@raypolandand Guest Posted: Thu Nov 10, 2005 6:04 pm    Post subject: EFIS To All, I read the postings about the downed glider near Reno, NV. I would like to point out that there are some other viable options for gyros, EFIS, etc. that should and can make flying in some unique conditions a bit safer and give the pilot some extra info. Please check this link http://www.pcflightsystems.com/ . In addition, there is a lot of different manufacturers with solid state "gyros" available to be displayed on iPAQ. Also, please check the Craggy Aero web site for solid state gyros available for sale right now. Sincerely, jk Back to top googlebart2000@yahoo.com Guest Posted: Thu Nov 10, 2005 8:31 pm    Post subject: Re: EFIS There is a similar solid-state product available at Wings and Wheels. Back to top BTIZ Guest Posted: Fri Nov 11, 2005 12:48 am    Post subject: Re: EFIS as I understand it, he had an electric turn and bank.. it was slow to spin up or had other problems when he needed it B <jacekkobiesa (AT) raypolandandsons (DOT) us> wrote Quote: To All, I read the postings about the downed glider near Reno, NV. I would like to point out that there are some other viable options for gyros, EFIS, etc. that should and can make flying in some unique conditions a bit safer and give the pilot some extra info. Please check this link http://www.pcflightsystems.com/ . In addition, there is a lot of different manufacturers with solid state "gyros" available to be displayed on iPAQ. Also, please check the Craggy Aero web site for solid state gyros available for sale right now. Sincerely, jk Back to top faadpe Guest Posted: Mon Nov 14, 2005 8:15 am    Post subject: Re: EFIS ALCON.... I have a Dynon EFIS in my Nimbus 3, 26m. I have been cloud flying for almost 10+ yrs in Florida...all legal, there are a lot of misconceptions of this...but according to the current FAR, in the USA cloud flying is legal. With the EFIS, I have a Tru-Trak T&B, however, the preferred T&B is always a 6 degree per sec turn versus a 3 degree per sec turn...due to the slower speeds that sailplanes maneuver during thermalling. Check out the Dynon site, they are very reasonable, simple to install and small amperes draw as well: http://www.dynonavionics.com The ASH more in likely exceeded his Vne based on air density & temperature, encounter flutter...then you know the rest of the story... Shawn -- faadpe ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Posted via OziPilots Online [ http://www.OziPilotsOnline.com.au ] - A website for Australian Pilots regardless of when, why, or what they fly - Back to top jguimondjr@erols.com Guest Posted: Mon Nov 14, 2005 3:59 pm    Post subject: Re: EFIS Please remember the accident statistics for instrument rated power pilots who lose their vacuum system--not a pretty picture. In order to obtain the instrument rating you must demonstrate the ability to fly without an attitude indicator (read using either turn and bank or turn coordinator). History has shown that a high percentage of these cases result in a fatal crash. Please do not think that a solid state gyro, or any other instrument, will eliminate the problem. It takes a lot of training and continuing proficiency to be able to fly an aircraft solely by reference to instruments. This situation is even more serious when you add significant turbulence. Fly Safe-- Skip Guimond Back to top bumper Guest Posted: Mon Nov 14, 2005 4:25 pm    Post subject: Re: EFIS <jguimondjr (AT) erols (DOT) com> wrote Quote: Please remember the accident statistics for instrument rated power pilots who lose their vacuum system--not a pretty picture. In order to obtain the instrument rating you must demonstrate the ability to fly without an attitude indicator (read using either turn and bank or turn coordinator). History has shown that a high percentage of these cases result in a fatal crash. Please do not think that a solid state gyro, or any other instrument, will eliminate the problem. It takes a lot of training and continuing proficiency to be able to fly an aircraft solely by reference to instruments. This situation is even more serious when you add significant turbulence. Fly Safe-- Skip Guimond All true, Skip. I think that any pilot who hasn't done partial panel instrument flying, either under the hood or actual, cannot have a true appreciation for the difficulties involved in staying upright in the clag. Both of the two recent accidents (on fatal, one not) involving gliders in IMC were flown by very experienced ATP rated pilots with lots of instrument time. In each case they just had no functioning instruments available to them and thus had little more chance of getting out of it clean than if you put the average Joe in the cockpit, with no license at all, in the same fix. So I guess we are talking two things here, both equally important. Make sure the glider you fly near harms way has the appropriate instruments to carry you safely through it. Make sure you have the current skills to use those instruments. At the least, I recommend renting an instructor and power plane for a good dose of under the hood time followed by some"unusual attitude" recovery on partial panel. If you're not willing to do that, and have no death wish, then do yourself and family a favor and stay the heck away from any chance of inadvertent or intentional IMC. bumper Minden Back to top Bill Daniels Guest Posted: Mon Nov 14, 2005 6:57 pm    Post subject: Re: EFIS "bumper" <bumperm (AT) ten (DOT) tta> wrote Quote: [email]jguimondjr (AT) erols (DOT) com[/email]> wrote in message news:1131983984.218779.268400 (AT) g49g2000cwa (DOT) googlegroups.com... Please remember the accident statistics for instrument rated power pilots who lose their vacuum system--not a pretty picture. In order to obtain the instrument rating you must demonstrate the ability to fly without an attitude indicator (read using either turn and bank or turn coordinator). History has shown that a high percentage of these cases result in a fatal crash. Please do not think that a solid state gyro, or any other instrument, will eliminate the problem. It takes a lot of training and continuing proficiency to be able to fly an aircraft solely by reference to instruments. This situation is even more serious when you add significant turbulence. Fly Safe-- Skip Guimond All true, Skip. I think that any pilot who hasn't done partial panel instrument flying, either under the hood or actual, cannot have a true appreciation for the difficulties involved in staying upright in the clag. Both of the two recent accidents (on fatal, one not) involving gliders in IMC were flown by very experienced ATP rated pilots with lots of instrument time. In each case they just had no functioning instruments available to them and thus had little more chance of getting out of it clean than if you put the average Joe in the cockpit, with no license at all, in the same fix. So I guess we are talking two things here, both equally important. Make sure the glider you fly near harms way has the appropriate instruments to carry you safely through it. Make sure you have the current skills to use those instruments. At the least, I recommend renting an instructor and power plane for a good dose of under the hood time followed by some"unusual attitude" recovery on partial panel. If you're not willing to do that, and have no death wish, then do yourself and family a favor and stay the heck away from any chance of inadvertent or intentional IMC. bumper Minden This is very true. I would add that once acquired, partial panel skills seem to have a longer 'shelf life' than full panel attitude instrument flying. The thing is that today, few instrument pilots ever really learn partial panel - being taught instead to rely on the attitude indicator. I originally learned 'needle-ball-airspeed + wet compass & clock' instrument flying. Later with full gyro panels, I still relied heavily on the old style of flying. The AI and DG were just 'fancy extras' that added a little precision. Recently, after a long absence, I donned a 'hood' and tried my hand at instrument flying. The old NBA skills still worked but the newer stuff felt strange. I could fly partial panel NDB holds and approaches but a full-panel ILS made me sweat. Unusual attitude recovery with NBA is simple and it always works. Just center the needle with coordinated controls, step on the 'ball' and get the desired airspeed. Too bad those damned 'turn coordinators' took over the world. Give me an old needle and ball any day - they never lie. Partial panel skills saved my bacon several times when the vacuum driven AI and DG went belly up in the soup. Bill Daniels Back to top Bill Daniels Guest Posted: Tue Nov 15, 2005 2:24 am    Post subject: Re: EFIS "faadpe" <faadpe (AT) REMOVETHISOziPilotsOnline (DOT) com.au> wrote Quote: ALCON.... I have a Dynon EFIS in my Nimbus 3, 26m. I have been cloud flying for almost 10+ yrs in Florida...all legal, there are a lot of misconceptions of this...but according to the current FAR, in the USA cloud flying is legal. With the EFIS, I have a Tru-Trak T&B, however, the preferred T&B is always a 6 degree per sec turn versus a 3 degree per sec turn...due to the slower speeds that sailplanes maneuver during thermalling. Check out the Dynon site, they are very reasonable, simple to install and small amperes draw as well: http://www.dynonavionics.com The ASH more in likely exceeded his Vne based on air density & temperature, encounter flutter...then you know the rest of the story... Shawn -- faadpe ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Posted via OziPilots Online [ http://www.OziPilotsOnline.com.au ] - A website for Australian Pilots regardless of when, why, or what they fly - Guy Acheson wrote: Shawn, This group is discussing gliders. Battery powered gliders. The Dynon units require 8 to 12 Watts! This does not seem like a very practical instrument for gliders. ----------------------------------- That's one reason why I'm looking at Li-ion batteries. Bill Daniels Back to top Mike the Strike Guest Posted: Tue Nov 15, 2005 5:28 am    Post subject: Re: EFIS I know Shawn's Nimbus and it's definitely a glider. Plenty of room for all the batteries he needs too! Mike Back to top Stefan Guest Posted: Tue Nov 15, 2005 11:00 am    Post subject: Re: EFIS bumper wrote: Quote: At the least, I recommend renting an instructor and power plane for a good dose of under the hood time followed by some"unusual attitude" recovery on partial panel. Better than nothing, but not the real thing. There's a huge difference between partial panel flying in a power plane (I like to call them flying airbrakes) and a modern slippery glider. The only valid method to learn instrument flying is to equip the back seat of a two seater with the gyros and install a curtain to obstruct outside view, in my opinion. 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