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Clive Braham
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 Posted: Sun Mar 27, 2005 1:02 am Post subject: EDI schedules: 5 years ago -v- now. |
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Here's a topical distraction if anyone's interested.
Compare and contrast the EDI scheduled flight services between the summer of
2000 and this coming summer. Note the surge in lo-co's since the early days
and some routes lost but many gained. Also less dominance of BA with lo-co's
squeezing them out or providing an alternative on many domestic routes.
EDI Scheduled Destination: Summer 2000
Aberdeen: BA
Amsterdam: UK
Basel: LX
Belfast City: BA
Belfast Int. :BA
Birmingham: BA
Bournemouth: 9G
Bristol: BA
Brussels: SN
Cambridge: CB (via NWI)
Cardiff: BA
Copenhagen: BD
Dublin: EI
East Midlands: BD
Frankfurt: LH (op BD)
Gothenburg: BU
Inverness: BA
Jersey: BA
Kirkwall: BA
Leeds Bradford: BD
London Gatwick: BA
London Heathrow: BA, BD
London Stansted: OG
London City: CB, JY
London Luton: EZY
Manchester: BA, BD
Norwich: CB
Paris (CDG): AF, BA
Shetland Isles: BA
Southampton: BA
Stornoway: BA
Vienna: VO
Wick: BA
Zurich: LX
EDI Scheduled Destination: Summer 2005
Alicante (ALC): flyglobespan (GSM)
Amsterdam (AMS): easyJet (EZY), KLM (KL)
Barcelona (BCN): flyglobespan (GSM)
Belfast City (BHD): FlyBE (BE)
Belfast International (BFS): easyJet (EZY)
Birmingham (BHX): bmibaby (WW), British Airways (BA), FlyBE (BE)
Bristol (BRS): British Airways (BA), easyJet (EZY)
Brussels (BRU): bmi British Midland (BD)
Cardiff (CWL): bmibaby (WW)
Cologne (CGN): Germanwings (4U)
Copenhagen (CPH): bmi British Midland (BD), Sterling (NB)
Cork (ORK): Aer Arann (RE)
Dublin (DUB): Aer Lingus (EI), Ryanair (FR)
Exeter (EXT): FlyBE (BE)
Faro (FAO): flyglobespan (GSM)
Frankfurt (FRA): Lufthansa (LH)
Galway (GWY): Aer Arann (RE)
Hamburg (HAM): Hapag-Lloyd Express (HLX)
Inverness (INV): British Airways (BA)
Jersey (JER): bmi British Midland (BD)
Kirkwall (KOI): British Airways (BA)
Leeds Bradford (LBA): bmi British Midland (BD)
Liverpool (LPL): FlyBE (BE)
London City (LCY): British Airways (BA), ScotAirways (CB)
London Gatwick (LGW): British Airways (BA) , easyJet (EZY)
London Luton (LTN): easyJet (EZY)
London Heathrow (LHR): bmi British Midland (BD), British Airways (BA)
London Stansted (STN): easyJet (EZY)
Manchester (MAN): bmi British Midland (BD), British Airways (BA), Jet2 (LS)
Manston Kent (MSE): EUJet (EU)
Malaga (AGP): flyglobespan (GSM)
New York Newark (EWR): Continental (CO)
Nice (NCE): flyglobespan (GSM)
Norwich (NWI): Eastern Airways (T3), FlyBE (BE)
Nottingham East Midlands (EMA): bmibaby (WW), easyJet (EZY)
Palma (PMI): flyglobespan (GSM)
Paris Charles de Gaulle (CDG): Air France (AF), British Airways (BA)
Paris Orly (ORY): Air France (AF)
Prague (PRG): Czech Airlines (OK)
Rome (FCO): flyglobespan (GSM)
Shetland Islands (LSI): British Airways (BA)
Southampton (SOU): British Airways (BA), FlyBE (BE)
Stornoway (SYY): bmi British Midland (BD)
Wick (WIC): British Airways (BA)
Toronto (YYZ): Air Transat (TS)
Clive
source www.uk-airport.info/edinburgh and BAA Scottish Airports
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bill
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Mar 27, 2005 7:04 am Post subject: Re: EDI schedules: 5 years ago -v- now. |
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In article <d250o3$7ul$1 (AT) news8 (DOT) svr.pol.co.uk>,
[email]clive (AT) braham5 (DOT) freeserve.co.uk[/email] says...
| Quote: | Here's a topical distraction if anyone's interested.
Compare and contrast the EDI scheduled flight services between the summer of
2000 and this coming summer. Note the surge in lo-co's since the early days
and some routes lost but many gained. Also less dominance of BA with lo-co's
squeezing them out or providing an alternative on many domestic routes.
EDI Scheduled Destination: Summer 2000
Aberdeen: BA
Amsterdam: UK
Basel: LX
Belfast City: BA
Belfast Int. :BA
Birmingham: BA
Bournemouth: 9G
Bristol: BA
Brussels: SN
Cambridge: CB (via NWI)
Cardiff: BA
Copenhagen: BD
Dublin: EI
East Midlands: BD
Frankfurt: LH (op BD)
Gothenburg: BU
Inverness: BA
Jersey: BA
Kirkwall: BA
Leeds Bradford: BD
London Gatwick: BA
London Heathrow: BA, BD
London Stansted: OG
London City: CB, JY
London Luton: EZY
Manchester: BA, BD
Norwich: CB
Paris (CDG): AF, BA
Shetland Isles: BA
Southampton: BA
Stornoway: BA
Vienna: VO
Wick: BA
Zurich: LX
EDI Scheduled Destination: Summer 2005
Alicante (ALC): flyglobespan (GSM)
Amsterdam (AMS): easyJet (EZY), KLM (KL)
Barcelona (BCN): flyglobespan (GSM)
Belfast City (BHD): FlyBE (BE)
Belfast International (BFS): easyJet (EZY)
Birmingham (BHX): bmibaby (WW), British Airways (BA), FlyBE (BE)
Bristol (BRS): British Airways (BA), easyJet (EZY)
Brussels (BRU): bmi British Midland (BD)
Cardiff (CWL): bmibaby (WW)
Cologne (CGN): Germanwings (4U)
Copenhagen (CPH): bmi British Midland (BD), Sterling (NB)
Cork (ORK): Aer Arann (RE)
Dublin (DUB): Aer Lingus (EI), Ryanair (FR)
Exeter (EXT): FlyBE (BE)
Faro (FAO): flyglobespan (GSM)
Frankfurt (FRA): Lufthansa (LH)
Galway (GWY): Aer Arann (RE)
Hamburg (HAM): Hapag-Lloyd Express (HLX)
Inverness (INV): British Airways (BA)
Jersey (JER): bmi British Midland (BD)
Kirkwall (KOI): British Airways (BA)
Leeds Bradford (LBA): bmi British Midland (BD)
Liverpool (LPL): FlyBE (BE)
London City (LCY): British Airways (BA), ScotAirways (CB)
London Gatwick (LGW): British Airways (BA) , easyJet (EZY)
London Luton (LTN): easyJet (EZY)
London Heathrow (LHR): bmi British Midland (BD), British Airways (BA)
London Stansted (STN): easyJet (EZY)
Manchester (MAN): bmi British Midland (BD), British Airways (BA), Jet2 (LS)
Manston Kent (MSE): EUJet (EU)
Malaga (AGP): flyglobespan (GSM)
New York Newark (EWR): Continental (CO)
Nice (NCE): flyglobespan (GSM)
Norwich (NWI): Eastern Airways (T3), FlyBE (BE)
Nottingham East Midlands (EMA): bmibaby (WW), easyJet (EZY)
Palma (PMI): flyglobespan (GSM)
Paris Charles de Gaulle (CDG): Air France (AF), British Airways (BA)
Paris Orly (ORY): Air France (AF)
Prague (PRG): Czech Airlines (OK)
Rome (FCO): flyglobespan (GSM)
Shetland Islands (LSI): British Airways (BA)
Southampton (SOU): British Airways (BA), FlyBE (BE)
Stornoway (SYY): bmi British Midland (BD)
Wick (WIC): British Airways (BA)
Toronto (YYZ): Air Transat (TS)
Clive
source www.uk-airport.info/edinburgh and BAA Scottish Airports
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an interesting contrast Clive, thanks for posting. Also, if you can cast
your mind back to remember the state of the airport at that time.
Although the expansion works had started, it was truly very cramped. We
have come a great distance in 5 years!
As for the route list, it would be nice to retrieve the Swiss
destinations from the 2000 list, and a return to the EI frequency of
those days would be appreciated (1 flight per day in 2005 is
ridiculous).
--
Bill
administrator, alt.airports.uk.edinburgh
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John Reid
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Mar 27, 2005 8:35 am Post subject: Re: EDI schedules: 5 years ago -v- now. |
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It is written in message
<MPG.1cb06b4092b678669898b9 (AT) news (DOT) blueyonder.co.uk> that bill sayeth :
| Quote: | As for the route list, it would be nice to retrieve the Swiss
destinations from the 2000 list, and a return to the EI frequency of
those days would be appreciated (1 flight per day in 2005 is
ridiculous).
|
A fascinating posting from Clive, much appreciated. The irritation I
have is much like yours Bill, where there are destinations which should
be better served and are not. Seems to be the way in which the low cost
operators have affected the traditional carriers, with their response
being to try to hang on but not to provide a truly competitive service.
In a way the increase in destinations helps to balance this, but it
doesn't make me a truly happy business traveller.
It is still a great move forwards in five years and hopefully will
improve further in future.
--
John
Mail sent to the reply address will be binned automatically.
Use my name with the domain (@+the rest)
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bill
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Mar 27, 2005 9:38 am Post subject: Re: EDI schedules: 5 years ago -v- now. |
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John Reid wrote:
| Quote: | It is written in message
[email]MPG.1cb06b4092b678669898b9 (AT) news (DOT) blueyonder.co.uk[/email]> that bill sayeth :
As for the route list, it would be nice to retrieve the Swiss
destinations from the 2000 list, and a return to the EI frequency of
those days would be appreciated (1 flight per day in 2005 is ridiculous).
A fascinating posting from Clive, much appreciated. The irritation I
have is much like yours Bill, where there are destinations which should
be better served and are not. Seems to be the way in which the low cost
operators have affected the traditional carriers, with their response
being to try to hang on but not to provide a truly competitive service.
In a way the increase in destinations helps to balance this, but it
doesn't make me a truly happy business traveller.
|
Dublin (from EDI) is a perfect example of this, with EI dropping
services each season until we now reach the current sad situation.
On the other hand, the response that KLM have given Easyjet on the AMS
route is in great contrast - they have upped frequency and dropped
pirce. Plus they run services at useful times. Very much the business
choice, where Easyjet provide a leisure alternative.
| Quote: |
It is still a great move forwards in five years and hopefully will
improve further in future.
|
I can only see further additions in routes to EDI, another US route must
be likely, plus further Euro destinations. I had initial reservations
about Flyglobespan, but they are starting to resemble what we really
need - a Scottish national airline.
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John Reid
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Mar 27, 2005 10:26 am Post subject: Re: EDI schedules: 5 years ago -v- now. |
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It is written in message
<nav1e.11603$4%3.11108 (AT) fe2 (DOT) news.blueyonder.co.uk> that bill sayeth :
| Quote: | Dublin (from EDI) is a perfect example of this, with EI dropping
services each season until we now reach the current sad situation.
On the other hand, the response that KLM have given Easyjet on the AMS
route is in great contrast - they have upped frequency and dropped
pirce. Plus they run services at useful times. Very much the business
choice, where Easyjet provide a leisure alternative.
|
The choice of response would seem to be somehow related to the depth of
the pockets of the owner. The KLM/Air France pairing has deep pockets
and a strong reputation for discounting (OT : I used to cross the pond
once a fortnight with AF in J class at a hugely discounted fare). EI
have troubles of their own, and no guaranteed government bail out, which
I suspect is what determines their inadequate response.
| Quote: | It is still a great move forwards in five years and hopefully will
improve further in future.
I can only see further additions in routes to EDI, another US route
must be likely, plus further Euro destinations. I had initial
reservations about Flyglobespan, but they are starting to resemble what
we really need - a Scottish national airline.
|
Yes, with US carriers struggling to make any money at home, the puddle
jumping routes could be their salvation. A real challenge for the more
established carriers, which can only be good for prices for the
consumer. Agree with your Flyglobespan comments, I hope it continues to
improve. Pity about the name though .
--
John
Mail sent to the reply address will be binned automatically.
Use my name with the domain (@+the rest)
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Clive Braham
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Mar 27, 2005 12:02 pm Post subject: Re: EDI schedules: 5 years ago -v- now. |
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"bill" <boing (AT) boing (DOT) com> wrote
| Quote: | John Reid wrote:
It is written in message
[email]MPG.1cb06b4092b678669898b9 (AT) news (DOT) blueyonder.co.uk[/email]> that bill sayeth :
As for the route list, it would be nice to retrieve the Swiss
destinations from the 2000 list, and a return to the EI frequency of
those days would be appreciated (1 flight per day in 2005 is
ridiculous).
A fascinating posting from Clive, much appreciated. The irritation I have
is much like yours Bill, where there are destinations which should be
better served and are not. Seems to be the way in which the low cost
operators have affected the traditional carriers, with their response
being to try to hang on but not to provide a truly competitive service.
In a way the increase in destinations helps to balance this, but it
doesn't make me a truly happy business traveller.
Dublin (from EDI) is a perfect example of this, with EI dropping services
each season until we now reach the current sad situation.
|
Ryanair have 3 flights a day. USA connecting pax would be largely be using
COA even if EI had more EDI flights. With 450 flights a day out of EWR CO
have the USA covered whereas EI would only compete with a one-stop service
on LAX, ORD, BOS for Scottish - US pax. Virtually no connecting pax for
Scotland-Europe, I would guess. So although EI offers a nicer product than
Ryanair, it won't make that much difference considering the large point to
point market between the 2 cities. In this case it's the exact same
airports. Or does it?
| Quote: |
On the other hand, the response that KLM have given Easyjet on the AMS
route is in great contrast - they have upped frequency and dropped pirce.
Plus they run services at useful times. Very much the business choice,
where Easyjet provide a leisure alternative.
It is still a great move forwards in five years and hopefully will
improve further in future.
I can only see further additions in routes to EDI, another US route must
be likely, plus further Euro destinations. I had initial reservations
about Flyglobespan, but they are starting to resemble what we really
need - a Scottish national airline.
|
Yes indeed and the 5 years in question is a short time in terms of the 10,
20 and 30 year stages that planners look towards. I wonder what the
departure board will look like in another 10-15 years time? We probably
wouldn't recognise it. Meantime we continue to go forward and that is a good
thing.
Clive
-- --
www.uk-airport.info/edinburgh
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GLAGAZ
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Mar 27, 2005 5:00 pm Post subject: Re: EDI schedules: 5 years ago -v- now. |
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34 flights in 2000, 45 in 2005 assuming I didn't counted correctly.
Looking good !!
Clive, could you do the same for GLA?
Gaz
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Joe Curry
Guest
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bill
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Mar 27, 2005 5:38 pm Post subject: Re: EDI schedules: 5 years ago -v- now. |
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Clive Braham wrote:
| Quote: |
Ryanair have 3 flights a day. USA connecting pax would be largely be using
COA even if EI had more EDI flights. With 450 flights a day out of EWR CO
have the USA covered whereas EI would only compete with a one-stop service
on LAX, ORD, BOS for Scottish - US pax. Virtually no connecting pax for
Scotland-Europe, I would guess. So although EI offers a nicer product than
Ryanair, it won't make that much difference considering the large point to
point market between the 2 cities. In this case it's the exact same
airports. Or does it?
|
Fair points Clive. I would take issue with the Sacotland/Europe thing
though - I knew of a lot of people that used to fly
EDI-DUB-Algarve/Morocco/etc., back in the day when EI did a lot of
charters to sunshine places - these were easily accessible on bookign
engines.
One thing that has changed however, is that EI no longer offer irish
regional connections (Galway, Cork, Sligo, etc.). And this will have
meant a decrease in traffic as people go for the Ryanair/Aer Arran
combinations.
TBH these days, their product is barely distinguishable from Ryanair,
although, as John D will no doubt remind me, Ei are member of OneWorld.
This not only means point earning opportunities, but also that the route
will appear on particular booking engines.
| Quote: |
Yes indeed and the 5 years in question is a short time in terms of the 10,
20 and 30 year stages that planners look towards. I wonder what the
departure board will look like in another 10-15 years time? We probably
wouldn't recognise it. Meantime we continue to go forward and that is a good
thing.
|
I remember working in DUB in the early 90s when the planners there were
talking off such plans, and how amazing and fantastic the future seemed.
Looking at the state of DUB then, and EDI now, I can almost, but not
quite, see the same possibilities.
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GLAGAZ
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Mar 27, 2005 5:47 pm Post subject: Re: EDI schedules: 5 years ago -v- now. |
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Oops, looks like i got caught in two minds there. *Assuming I counted
correctly*
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Joe Curry
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Mar 27, 2005 5:54 pm Post subject: Re: EDI schedules: 5 years ago -v- now. |
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The message <dcC1e.14356$XH5.2240 (AT) fe1 (DOT) news.blueyonder.co.uk>
from bill <boing (AT) boing (DOT) com> contains these words:
| Quote: | I remember working in DUB in the early 90s when the planners there were
talking off such plans, and how amazing and fantastic the future seemed.
Looking at the state of DUB then, and EDI now, I can almost, but not
quite, see the same possibilities.
|
EDI is owner restricted. :-(
--
www.edinburghairport.org.uk Edinburgh Scotland International
Scotland's most convenient/accessible/profitable airport
http://www2.germanwings.com/en/images/edinburgh_en.gif
View my aircraft pictures:
http://www.jetphotos.net/showphotos.php?userid=1753
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Clive Braham
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Mar 27, 2005 8:59 pm Post subject: Re: EDI schedules: 5 years ago -v- now. |
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"bill" <boing (AT) boing (DOT) com> wrote
| Quote: | Clive Braham wrote:
Ryanair have 3 flights a day. USA connecting pax would be largely be
using COA even if EI had more EDI flights. With 450 flights a day out of
EWR CO have the USA covered whereas EI would only compete with a one-stop
service on LAX, ORD, BOS for Scottish - US pax. Virtually no connecting
pax for Scotland-Europe, I would guess. So although EI offers a nicer
product than Ryanair, it won't make that much difference considering the
large point to point market between the 2 cities. In this case it's the
exact same airports. Or does it?
Fair points Clive. I would take issue with the Sacotland/Europe thing
though - I knew of a lot of people that used to fly
EDI-DUB-Algarve/Morocco/etc., back in the day when EI did a lot of
charters to sunshine places - these were easily accessible on bookign
engines.
|
Yes but I really meant the core Euro destinations where connections are
concerned BA and KLM will still be the more obvious choices for most.
| Quote: |
One thing that has changed however, is that EI no longer offer irish
regional connections (Galway, Cork, Sligo, etc.). And this will have meant
a decrease in traffic as people go for the Ryanair/Aer Arran combinations.
TBH these days, their product is barely distinguishable from Ryanair,
although, as John D will no doubt remind me, Ei are member of OneWorld.
This not only means point earning opportunities, but also that the route
will appear on particular booking engines.
|
Loyalty schemes, great as they are, can work against new direct flights as
Duo unfortunately found out. Worse effect still when big companies with a
travel policy stick to the likes of BA regardless of new direct
opportunities becoming available.
| Quote: |
Yes indeed and the 5 years in question is a short time in terms of the
10, 20 and 30 year stages that planners look towards. I wonder what the
departure board will look like in another 10-15 years time? We probably
wouldn't recognise it. Meantime we continue to go forward and that is a
good thing.
I remember working in DUB in the early 90s when the planners there were
talking off such plans, and how amazing and fantastic the future seemed.
Looking at the state of DUB then, and EDI now, I can almost, but not
quite, see the same possibilities.
|
There are similarities. Both are small cities in small countries with a
large inbound market and business profile. Dublin has embraced short break
tourism better over the years. We are a bit slow but I think that's down to
the legacy of an over dependance on London whenever travel plans were
concerned.
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