AirTalk.org Aviation discussions newsgroups   Archives   FAQ   Search   Memberlist   Usergroups   Register   Profile   Log in to check your private messages   Log in  Easy Starting Tip for Rotax Goto page 1, 2  Next          AirTalk.org Forum Index -> Light aircraft View previous topic :: View next topic   Author Message Max Rentz Guest Posted: Sat Oct 25, 2003 1:22 pm    Post subject: Easy Starting Tip for Rotax I have a Rotax 447, and like most of you, I use a squirt or two from a primer valve to start the engine. Anyone that does this procedure knows that it doesn't always work perfectly. When the engine starts, and is running rough, you work the primer plunger, not always being able to tell if it is not getting enough fuel, or getting too much fuel. Giving another squirt with the primer valve may give you the answer, but may also kill the engine. This is an unnecessary frustration. This occurs with the throttle set at idle, or just off the stop. Quite by accident, I have found a better way. Whereas I have always started my engine (cold) at idle, I started it the other day with the throttle about 1/3 open. I gave the primer valve two squirts, and pulled the rope. The engine roared to life, and was trying to RUN, instead of trying to QUIT. All I did was to keep feeding fuel via the primer valve... just enough to keep it strong. I have been doing it that way for about 6 weeks, and it has been a "one pull start" every single time. The real test was yesterday, since it has been about 11 days since I had run the engine. As I had the airport A&P looking on, I proved my procedure. Maybe one of you guru's can explain why it starts so much easier- but all I know is that it works. I suspect it has something to do with the slide being open further, and allowing more AIR as well as fuel. All I know is that it works. BlueMax Back to top D. Grunloh Guest Posted: Sat Oct 25, 2003 2:09 pm    Post subject: Re: Easy Starting Tip for Rotax Max Rentz wrote: Quote: I have a Rotax 447, and like most of you, I use a squirt or two from a primer valve to start the engine. Anyone that does this procedure knows that it doesn't always work perfectly. When the engine starts, and is running rough, you work the primer plunger, not always being able to tell if it is not getting enough fuel, or getting too much fuel. Giving another squirt with the primer valve may give you the answer, but may also kill the engine. This is an unnecessary frustration. This occurs with the throttle set at idle, or just off the stop. Quite by accident, I have found a better way. Whereas I have always started my engine (cold) at idle, I started it the other day with the throttle about 1/3 open. Interesting tip. I hope you are sitting in the plane when you do this. It's probably not practical for some of us who pull the rope while standing alongside. You won't hear much about it but there was a runaway in England at the 9th world competions. A trike was started, and it got away from the operator and ran into another trike, damaged both of them and chopped up a tent (unoccupied) before they got it stopped. --Dan Grunloh Quote: I gave the primer valve two squirts, and pulled the rope. The engine roared to life, and was trying to RUN, instead of trying to QUIT. All I did was to keep feeding fuel via the primer valve... just enough to keep it strong. I have been doing it that way for about 6 weeks, and it has been a "one pull start" every single time. The real test was yesterday, since it has been about 11 days since I had run the engine. As I had the airport A&P looking on, I proved my procedure. Maybe one of you guru's can explain why it starts so much easier- but all I know is that it works. I suspect it has something to do with the slide being open further, and allowing more AIR as well as fuel. All I know is that it works. BlueMax Back to top Ian Graeme Guest Posted: Sat Oct 25, 2003 3:21 pm    Post subject: Re: Easy Starting Tip for Rotax I have most of a Kolb, because the former owner tried this trick. I am looking for the front cage for a Twinstar, if anyone has a spare. Max Rentz wrote: Quote: I have a Rotax 447, and like most of you, I use a squirt or two from a primer valve to start the engine. Anyone that does this procedure knows that it doesn't always work perfectly. When the engine starts, and is running rough, you work the primer plunger, not always being able to tell if it is not getting enough fuel, or getting too much fuel. Giving another squirt with the primer valve may give you the answer, but may also kill the engine. This is an unnecessary frustration. This occurs with the throttle set at idle, or just off the stop. Quite by accident, I have found a better way. Whereas I have always started my engine (cold) at idle, I started it the other day with the throttle about 1/3 open. I gave the primer valve two squirts, and pulled the rope. The engine roared to life, and was trying to RUN, instead of trying to QUIT. All I did was to keep feeding fuel via the primer valve... just enough to keep it strong. I have been doing it that way for about 6 weeks, and it has been a "one pull start" every single time. The real test was yesterday, since it has been about 11 days since I had run the engine. As I had the airport A&P looking on, I proved my procedure. Maybe one of you guru's can explain why it starts so much easier- but all I know is that it works. I suspect it has something to do with the slide being open further, and allowing more AIR as well as fuel. All I know is that it works. BlueMax Back to top Mark Smith Guest Posted: Sat Oct 25, 2003 7:41 pm    Post subject: Re: Easy Starting Tip for Rotax Max Rentz wrote: Quote: I have a Rotax 447, and like most of you, I use a squirt or two from a primer valve to start the engine. Anyone that does this procedure knows that it doesn't always work perfectly. When the engine starts, and is running rough, you work the primer plunger, not always being able to tell if it is not getting enough fuel, or getting too much fuel. Giving another squirt with the primer valve may give you the answer, but may also kill the engine. This is an unnecessary frustration. This occurs with the throttle set at idle, or just off the stop. Quite by accident, I have found a better way. Whereas I have always started my engine (cold) at idle, I started it the other day with the throttle about 1/3 open. I gave the primer valve two squirts, and pulled the rope. The engine roared to life, and was trying to RUN, instead of trying to QUIT. All I did was to keep feeding fuel via the primer valve... just enough to keep it strong. I have been doing it that way for about 6 weeks, and it has been a "one pull start" every single time. The real test was yesterday, since it has been about 11 days since I had run the engine. As I had the airport A&P looking on, I proved my procedure. Maybe one of you guru's can explain why it starts so much easier- but all I know is that it works. I suspect it has something to do with the slide being open further, and allowing more AIR as well as fuel. All I know is that it works. BlueMax idle fuel isn't very much, and the primer is a kinda shot in the dark item, with the throttle 1/3 open, the amount of fuel is substantial and easily metered with primer 'squirts' I have promoted primers for many years now,,,,,,I even remove the choke assembly and plud the choke systen with RTV,,,,,,,, less chances for those parts to fail/leak,,,,,,,, I do carefully watch the primer line when priming the primer, the line may MT whilst running, and be fairly MT the next cold start,,,,,,,, one prime may not even wet the primers whistle,,,,,,,, -- Mark Smith Tri-State Kite Sales http://www.trikite.com 1121 N Locust St Mt Vernon, IN 47620 mailto:mark (AT) trikite (DOT) com Back to top Bryan Reed Guest Posted: Sat Oct 25, 2003 11:47 pm    Post subject: Re: Easy Starting Tip for Rotax Of course once you go electric start you never go back. Kinda nice to just push a button and bam, starts first time, every time. Bryan "Mark Smith" <mark (AT) trikite (DOT) com> wrote Quote: Max Rentz wrote: I have a Rotax 447, and like most of you, I use a squirt or two from a primer valve to start the engine. Anyone that does this procedure knows that it doesn't always work perfectly. When the engine starts, and is running rough, you work the primer plunger, not always being able to tell if it is not getting enough fuel, or getting too much fuel. Giving another squirt with the primer valve may give you the answer, but may also kill the engine. This is an unnecessary frustration. This occurs with the throttle set at idle, or just off the stop. Quite by accident, I have found a better way. Whereas I have always started my engine (cold) at idle, I started it the other day with the throttle about 1/3 open. I gave the primer valve two squirts, and pulled the rope. The engine roared to life, and was trying to RUN, instead of trying to QUIT. All I did was to keep feeding fuel via the primer valve... just enough to keep it strong. I have been doing it that way for about 6 weeks, and it has been a "one pull start" every single time. The real test was yesterday, since it has been about 11 days since I had run the engine. As I had the airport A&P looking on, I proved my procedure. Maybe one of you guru's can explain why it starts so much easier- but all I know is that it works. I suspect it has something to do with the slide being open further, and allowing more AIR as well as fuel. All I know is that it works. BlueMax idle fuel isn't very much, and the primer is a kinda shot in the dark item, with the throttle 1/3 open, the amount of fuel is substantial and easily metered with primer 'squirts' I have promoted primers for many years now,,,,,,I even remove the choke assembly and plud the choke systen with RTV,,,,,,,, less chances for those parts to fail/leak,,,,,,,, I do carefully watch the primer line when priming the primer, the line may MT whilst running, and be fairly MT the next cold start,,,,,,,, one prime may not even wet the primers whistle,,,,,,,, -- Mark Smith Tri-State Kite Sales http://www.trikite.com 1121 N Locust St Mt Vernon, IN 47620 mailto:mark (AT) trikite (DOT) com Back to top Martha & Russ Oppenheim Guest Posted: Sun Oct 26, 2003 5:15 am    Post subject: Re: Easy Starting Tip for Rotax Yeah, except when your battery gets low. Just happened to me last week. I hadn't flown in a few weeks, and when I tried to start it, it just went "rowr, rowr" very slowly. Charged up the battery and it was fine. Martha Bryan Reed wrote: Quote: Of course once you go electric start you never go back. Kinda nice to just push a button and bam, starts first time, every time. Bryan "Mark Smith" <mark (AT) trikite (DOT) com> wrote in message news:3F9AD1D6.5374 (AT) trikite (DOT) com... Max Rentz wrote: I have a Rotax 447, and like most of you, I use a squirt or two from a primer valve to start the engine. Anyone that does this procedure knows that it doesn't always work perfectly. When the engine starts, and is running rough, you work the primer plunger, not always being able to tell if it is not getting enough fuel, or getting too much fuel. Giving another squirt with the primer valve may give you the answer, but may also kill the engine. This is an unnecessary frustration. This occurs with the throttle set at idle, or just off the stop. Quite by accident, I have found a better way. Whereas I have always started my engine (cold) at idle, I started it the other day with the throttle about 1/3 open. I gave the primer valve two squirts, and pulled the rope. The engine roared to life, and was trying to RUN, instead of trying to QUIT. All I did was to keep feeding fuel via the primer valve... just enough to keep it strong. I have been doing it that way for about 6 weeks, and it has been a "one pull start" every single time. The real test was yesterday, since it has been about 11 days since I had run the engine. As I had the airport A&P looking on, I proved my procedure. Maybe one of you guru's can explain why it starts so much easier- but all I know is that it works. I suspect it has something to do with the slide being open further, and allowing more AIR as well as fuel. All I know is that it works. BlueMax idle fuel isn't very much, and the primer is a kinda shot in the dark item, with the throttle 1/3 open, the amount of fuel is substantial and easily metered with primer 'squirts' I have promoted primers for many years now,,,,,,I even remove the choke assembly and plud the choke systen with RTV,,,,,,,, less chances for those parts to fail/leak,,,,,,,, I do carefully watch the primer line when priming the primer, the line may MT whilst running, and be fairly MT the next cold start,,,,,,,, one prime may not even wet the primers whistle,,,,,,,, -- Mark Smith Tri-State Kite Sales http://www.trikite.com 1121 N Locust St Mt Vernon, IN 47620 mailto:mark (AT) trikite (DOT) com Back to top Mark Smith Guest Posted: Sun Oct 26, 2003 1:36 pm    Post subject: Re: Easy Starting Tip for Rotax Bryan Reed wrote: Quote: Of course once you go electric start you never go back. Kinda nice to just push a button and bam, starts first time, every time. Bryan my 2 cents, once you figure out how to get first pull starts on a decent running/starting engine, you'll lose the heavy battery and starter pretty quick, I don't have el strt on my trainer and itngets started 50 times a day during the summer months,,,,, the weight is a problem and cute into the margin for performance a bunch, especially when the pilots are real sized,,,,,,,, also, the likelihood of a dead battery spikes really bad when you install the first battery !!!!!! -- Mark Smith Tri-State Kite Sales http://www.trikite.com 1121 N Locust St Mt Vernon, IN 47620 mailto:mark (AT) trikite (DOT) com Back to top Bryan Reed Guest Posted: Sun Oct 26, 2003 3:40 pm    Post subject: Re: Easy Starting Tip for Rotax "Mark Smith" <mark (AT) trikite (DOT) com> wrote Quote: my 2 cents, once you figure out how to get first pull starts on a decent running/starting engine, you'll lose the heavy battery and starter pretty quick, Mine will start first pull but still prefer electric. Quote: I don't have el strt on my trainer and itngets started 50 times a day during the summer months,,,,, All the more reason for electric start. We have a saying in construction circles that goes: Get off the cross!!! We need the wood. : ) Quote: the weight is a problem and cute into the margin for performance a bunch, especially when the pilots are real sized,,,,,,,, Weight isn't a big thing on a trike. I easily instruct with 500lbs of occupants and full fuel. Come on over to the dark side of triking. : ) Quote: also, the likelihood of a dead battery spikes really bad when you install the first battery !!!!!! 2-years on an $80. gel-cell isn't going to break the bank. Cheers, Bryan Quote: -- Mark Smith Tri-State Kite Sales http://www.trikite.com 1121 N Locust St Mt Vernon, IN 47620 mailto:mark (AT) trikite (DOT) com Back to top tedheath Guest Posted: Sun Oct 26, 2003 8:56 pm    Post subject: Re: Easy Starting Tip for Rotax The trick with electric start system is to get a cue from the military. When cold starting military piston engined aircraft they use a battery cart or something similar. First start for a while use an external battery and jumper leads. Saves sucking the guts out of the battery and then causing spikes while trying to charge at max amps. Starting with throttle not closed killed a person here not long ago. The plane took off and chopped up a guy. Normally the 582 wont start if the throttle is open too far but if it does start it will want to get moving. I used to squirt some CRC easy start if aircraft sat for a long time. Just to save on startermotor wear and tear. tedheath tedheath "Bryan Reed" <reed44 (AT) cox (DOT) net> wrote Quote: "Mark Smith" <mark (AT) trikite (DOT) com> wrote in message news:3F9BCDE2.B43 (AT) trikite (DOT) com... my 2 cents, once you figure out how to get first pull starts on a decent running/starting engine, you'll lose the heavy battery and starter pretty quick, Mine will start first pull but still prefer electric. I don't have el strt on my trainer and itngets started 50 times a day during the summer months,,,,, All the more reason for electric start. We have a saying in construction circles that goes: Get off the cross!!! We need the wood. : ) the weight is a problem and cute into the margin for performance a bunch, especially when the pilots are real sized,,,,,,,, Weight isn't a big thing on a trike. I easily instruct with 500lbs of occupants and full fuel. Come on over to the dark side of triking. : ) also, the likelihood of a dead battery spikes really bad when you install the first battery !!!!!! 2-years on an $80. gel-cell isn't going to break the bank. Cheers, Bryan -- Mark Smith Tri-State Kite Sales http://www.trikite.com 1121 N Locust St Mt Vernon, IN 47620 mailto:mark (AT) trikite (DOT) com Back to top Brad Blackburn Guest Posted: Mon Oct 27, 2003 1:05 am    Post subject: Re: Easy Starting Tip for Rotax Quote: "Ian Graeme" I have most of a Kolb, because the former owner tried this trick. I am looking for the front cage for a Twinstar, if anyone has a spare. A buddy of mine made his own. He bought a Kolb FS that had some kind of misshap on the cage. I think a large garage door was dropped on the nose because there was no evidence of the wings being in a crash. The cage was missing so he took measurements off my FS cage and went to welding. It probably helps that he has been a welder most of his life (boilermaker). Brad Back to top WhiteKnukles Guest Posted: Mon Oct 27, 2003 4:08 am    Post subject: Re: Easy Starting Tip for Rotax Mark, I'll bite. Just what is MT? Jim Burns "Mark Smith" <mark (AT) trikite (DOT) com> wrote Quote: Max Rentz wrote: I have a Rotax 447, and like most of you, I use a squirt or two from a primer valve to start the engine. Anyone that does this procedure knows that it doesn't always work perfectly. When the engine starts, and is running rough, you work the primer plunger, not always being able to tell if it is not getting enough fuel, or getting too much fuel. Giving another squirt with the primer valve may give you the answer, but may also kill the engine. This is an unnecessary frustration. This occurs with the throttle set at idle, or just off the stop. Quite by accident, I have found a better way. Whereas I have always started my engine (cold) at idle, I started it the other day with the throttle about 1/3 open. I gave the primer valve two squirts, and pulled the rope. The engine roared to life, and was trying to RUN, instead of trying to QUIT. All I did was to keep feeding fuel via the primer valve... just enough to keep it strong. I have been doing it that way for about 6 weeks, and it has been a "one pull start" every single time. The real test was yesterday, since it has been about 11 days since I had run the engine. As I had the airport A&P looking on, I proved my procedure. Maybe one of you guru's can explain why it starts so much easier- but all I know is that it works. I suspect it has something to do with the slide being open further, and allowing more AIR as well as fuel. All I know is that it works. BlueMax idle fuel isn't very much, and the primer is a kinda shot in the dark item, with the throttle 1/3 open, the amount of fuel is substantial and easily metered with primer 'squirts' I have promoted primers for many years now,,,,,,I even remove the choke assembly and plud the choke systen with RTV,,,,,,,, less chances for those parts to fail/leak,,,,,,,, I do carefully watch the primer line when priming the primer, the line may MT whilst running, and be fairly MT the next cold start,,,,,,,, one prime may not even wet the primers whistle,,,,,,,, -- Mark Smith Tri-State Kite Sales http://www.trikite.com 1121 N Locust St Mt Vernon, IN 47620 mailto:mark (AT) trikite (DOT) com Back to top D. Grunloh Guest Posted: Mon Oct 27, 2003 5:28 am    Post subject: Re: Easy Starting Tip for Rotax WhiteKnukles wrote: Quote: Mark, I'll bite. Just what is MT? empty? Quote: Jim Burns "Mark Smith" <mark (AT) trikite (DOT) com> wrote in message news:3F9AD1D6.5374 (AT) trikite (DOT) com... Max Rentz wrote: I have a Rotax 447, and like most of you, I use a squirt or two from a primer valve to start the engine. Anyone that does this procedure knows that it doesn't always work perfectly. When the engine starts, and is running rough, you work the primer plunger, not always being able to tell if it is not getting enough fuel, or getting too much fuel. Giving another squirt with the primer valve may give you the answer, but may also kill the engine. This is an unnecessary frustration. This occurs with the throttle set at idle, or just off the stop. Quite by accident, I have found a better way. Whereas I have always started my engine (cold) at idle, I started it the other day with the throttle about 1/3 open. I gave the primer valve two squirts, and pulled the rope. The engine roared to life, and was trying to RUN, instead of trying to QUIT. All I did was to keep feeding fuel via the primer valve... just enough to keep it strong. I have been doing it that way for about 6 weeks, and it has been a "one pull start" every single time. The real test was yesterday, since it has been about 11 days since I had run the engine. As I had the airport A&P looking on, I proved my procedure. Maybe one of you guru's can explain why it starts so much easier- but all I know is that it works. I suspect it has something to do with the slide being open further, and allowing more AIR as well as fuel. All I know is that it works. BlueMax idle fuel isn't very much, and the primer is a kinda shot in the dark item, with the throttle 1/3 open, the amount of fuel is substantial and easily metered with primer 'squirts' I have promoted primers for many years now,,,,,,I even remove the choke assembly and plud the choke systen with RTV,,,,,,,, less chances for those parts to fail/leak,,,,,,,, I do carefully watch the primer line when priming the primer, the line may MT whilst running, and be fairly MT the next cold start,,,,,,,, one prime may not even wet the primers whistle,,,,,,,, -- Mark Smith Tri-State Kite Sales http://www.trikite.com 1121 N Locust St Mt Vernon, IN 47620 mailto:mark (AT) trikite (DOT) com Back to top D. Grunloh Guest Posted: Mon Oct 27, 2003 5:37 am    Post subject: Re: Easy Starting Tip for Rotax Bryan Reed wrote: Quote: "Mark Smith" <mark (AT) trikite (DOT) com> wrote in message news:3F9BCDE2.B43 (AT) trikite (DOT) com... my 2 cents, once you figure out how to get first pull starts on a decent running/starting engine, you'll lose the heavy battery and starter pretty quick, the weight is a problem and cute into the margin for performance a bunch, especially when the pilots are real sized,,,,,,,, Weight isn't a big thing on a trike. I easily instruct with 500lbs of occupants and full fuel. Come on over to the dark side of triking. : ) Weight is a problem on some trikes but not on all of them. The 20 lbs is excessive for light single seaters and for some 503 powered trainers with smallish wings. Most of the single seat contest trikes in England did not have electric start The logic there is why ask a 10 meter wing to carry a 20 lbs anchor throughout the entire flight that does nothing for you once the motor is ticking over. Your 582 or 912 two-place trike with big wing could care less about the weight. --dan Back to top Mark Smith Guest Posted: Mon Oct 27, 2003 4:41 pm    Post subject: Re: Easy Starting Tip for Rotax WhiteKnukles wrote: Quote: Mark, I'll bite. Just what is MT? Jim Burns empty -- Mark Smith Tri-State Kite Sales http://www.trikite.com 1121 N Locust St Mt Vernon, IN 47620 mailto:mark (AT) trikite (DOT) com Back to top Max Rentz Guest Posted: Mon Oct 27, 2003 8:43 pm    Post subject: Re: Easy Starting Tip for Rotax I'm not sure how big you guys are...but I'm a fairly big boy. I have started my Aerolite (pusher/tricycle) while standing, and my left knee against the right strut where it attaches to the fuselage. I've never had it "get away" from me (and I'm not even knocking on wood!) The kill switch, brake lever, and throttle are all within easy reach. With my 447, I can easily hold my plane back with just my knee pressure. I do try to find a spot where the main gear can rest against a bump, like pavement berm, or whatever. Besides, I like to watch things after the engine starts (prop tracking, engine vibration, strobes, etc.) I can't see all that stuff when I'm seated. If I was 130 pounds, I might rethink my method. BlueMax tedheath" <tedheath (AT) xtra (DOT) co.nz> wrote Quote: The trick with electric start system is to get a cue from the military. When cold starting military piston engined aircraft they use a battery cart or something similar. First start for a while use an external battery and jumper leads. Saves sucking the guts out of the battery and then causing spikes while trying to charge at max amps. Starting with throttle not closed killed a person here not long ago. The plane took off and chopped up a guy. Normally the 582 wont start if the throttle is open too far but if it does start it will want to get moving. I used to squirt some CRC easy start if aircraft sat for a long time. Just to save on startermotor wear and tear. tedheath Back to top Display posts from previous: All Posts1 Day7 Days2 Weeks1 Month3 Months6 Months1 Year Oldest FirstNewest First         AirTalk.org Forum Index -> Light aircraft All times are GMT Goto page 1, 2  Next Page 1 of 2   Jump to: Select a forum Aviation----------------alt.aviationAviation safety EnhancementPlanes, gliders and flying in AustraliaAviation et pilotage (Français)rec.aviationAviation (Aerobatics)Hot air, gas balloons and airshipsHang-gliding, paragliding, foot-launched flightAircraft Design & BuildingInstrument Flight RulesAviation (Classifieds)Military AircraftNaval AviationAviation (Miscellaneous Topics)Owning AirplanesAviators (General Discussions)Aviation related productsAircraft RestorationHelicopters and rotary wing aircraftsFlight SimulationSailplanesAviation (Students)Light aircraftFlying related activities in the UK Airports----------------alt.airportsEdinburgh Airport Glasgow Airport Humberside Airport Luton Airport Aberdeen Airport Glasgow Prestwick Airport  You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2006 phpBB Group SEO toolkit © 2004-2006 webmedic.