AirTalk.org

Mika Koski · Guest

Hi,

the sailplanes below are from www.segelflug.de and ones you can buy
with a (relatively) small amount of money, but they still are suitable
for crosscountry (L/D >= 35). The only plane among these I'm familiar
with is LS 4 controls-non-automatic-version so it will be kind of
benchmark for other planes.

Now I'm considering to buy one of listed planes for myself and for many
reasons my future plane will not be hangared, but kept in a trailer
when it is not used. From attaching and detaching* point of view, which
one would be optimal plane "to be taken out of the trailer in the
mornign and put back in the evening" usage?

ASW20
LS 3 & 4
Speed Astir II
DG-300
JANTAR
Std. Cirrus
Mistral C

If there is easy to attach/detach plane, which is not in the list and
you can buy it with less than 25000 EUR, please let me know.

Regards,

Mika Koski
Finland

* What is the right word in "soaring english" to be used for this?

kirk.stant@gmail.com · Guest

LS4 is easy, even without automatic hookups - the LS sleeves make the
manual hookup of the ailerons and brakes quick and easy to check.

But that doesn't mean they can't be hooked up wrong! - I've managed to
incorrectly hook up a spoiler on an LS4-a, found by the positive check.
Oops...

LS4 wings are a bit heavy, but that builds character - and provides for
a nice fast redline!

Kirk
LS6-b "66"

Mel Dawson · Guest

At 21:30 17 November 2005, Mika Koski wrote:

Shawn · Guest

Mika Koski wrote:

matt@takestockphotos.com · Guest

I've flown an LS-4 for the past four years. The hook-up is easy and
with collars that screw over the connection, is very difficult (but not
impossible) to attach incorrectly. I've learned to check the connection
by feeling the hole at the bottom of the control connection joint with
my finger. If the hole is a half-round, the connection is secure; if
you feel a completely round hole, the connection has not been made
correctly and you should start over. Rolladen-Schneider provides
mirrors to check the connections visually, but in my experience they
are useless.

Once you get used to rigging the glider, the whole process can be
accomplished in less than 15 minutes.

The LS-4 is also easy to fly and wonderfully forgiving of pilot errors
-- a good ship to begin with.

Matt

Ray Lovinggood · Guest

Mika,

I will repeat the message from Todd: It depends on
the trailer! All the difference is, mostly, in the
trailer! If the trailer is 'home built', it can be
good or bad, just depends on how it is set up. The
same is true for a factory trailer. Typically, the
factory trailers such as Cobra or Komet make assembly
and disassembly VERY easy.

All of your gliders on your list should be easy to
rig with a good trailer.

And also as mentioned, the 303 Mosquito has auto connections.

Ray Lovinggood
Carrboro, North Carolina, USA

At 21:30 17 November 2005, Mika Koski wrote:

Steve Leonard · Guest

Not meaning to bag on them, but I have NEVER been around
an Astir of any kind that went together easily. I
am not a real fan of the 'twist to lock' front and
rear fittings. Someone, please tell me they can go
easy!

Of the rest, they can all be good. Get the seller
to walk you through assembling it and taking it apart.
You will get a real feel for how good the trailer
setup is when you do this one time. Most important
here is YOU do the work, with him telling you what
to do.

Glasflugels are really nice, since the have the bar
you can use to pull the wings together. As with any,
they must be in close alignment first, but you can
then pull them together. MUCH easier than telling
the person at the tip to 'wiggle and push in'. But
I think you will find that most that you are looking
at will just slide right together.

Have fun with whatever you buy!

Steve Leonard

toad · Guest

Steve Leonard wrote:

Andy · Guest

The words I use are "rig" and "derig". From personal experience, and
observation of others, I'd say that gliders with spar tip pins that
mate in the other wing root are harder to rig than gliders that use 2
load bearing main spar pins. Other actors are wing weight, quality of
rigging aids, your experience, and the experience of your helper if you
use one.

You can learn to rig any glider and I don't think this should be a
major factor in making a selection.

Andy

Greg Arnold · Guest

Andy wrote:

hannu · Guest

"Mika Koski" <mikakoski (AT) hotmail (DOT) com> wrote

Chris Reed · Guest

toad wrote:

Kevin Brooker · Guest

As said several times before, the trailer is everything for ease of
rig/de-rig. I've rigged the same model glider from differant trailers
and the effort required varied quite a lot. Any glider on your list is
fine; find the best set up trailer and buy that and take whatever is
inside. Great trailer set-ups make flying fun. A trailer that makes
you dread rigging/derigging will have you second guessing if you want
to risk using a crappy trailer in a field in the middle of the night.
Rig/derig on a gliderport is orders of magnitude differant then during
an off field landing. Putting the wings on is easy; getting the ship
safely in and out of the box is the real rub. Buy the trailer. Great
trailers make flying fun and will enhance the experiance. A good
trailer also makes it easier to find help rigging since the process
will be faster. You can fiddle w/ pins and such after the wings are on
and you've dismissed the help. FWIW, the LS-4 almost assembles itself;
if there is a good trailer.

On Fri, 18 Nov 2005 07:30:12 +0200, "hannu" <hn (AT) invalid (DOT) net> wrote:

kirk.stant@gmail.com · Guest

Re two pin assembly vs one pin assembly; two main pins are really easy
if you know the trick to it. The big difference is that with a two pin
setup (LSs for examble), the wings go into the fuselage relatively
"loose", while single pin (Ventus, etc) wings have to fit into a
"tight" fuselage. This can cause some problems with newer single pin
gliders, until the exact right angle is found.

With a two pin, my technique is to put in the fork spar first, then the
tongue spar. Now, with the helper on the tip of the tongue spar wing,
have him lift the tip until the spar main pin holes on the side AWAY
from him (in the fuselage) line up, then insert that pin. This will
usually take a surprising amount of lift in an LS, by the way! Then
have him lower the tip until the pin holes closest to him are lined up,
and that pil will slide in easily.

What makes this easy in an LS is that until the first pin is in, the
wings are fairly loose in the fuselage and are easy to position.

This also works with ASW-20s, 19s, etc..

Works for me.

Kirk
LS6b 66

01-- Zero One · Guest

Kirk has properly pointed up the issue in trying to align 2 pin wings.
I cannot tell you how many even experienced owners still try to install
the pin nearest the helper first. Based on the geometry of the design,
the helper has very little ability to control the alignment on that pin
but can immediately effect change on the opposite one. Once the
opposite pin is installed then any vertical movement by the helper will
translate to the nearer pin receptacles.

Larry

"01" USA

LS-3a

"kirk.stant (AT) gmail (DOT) com" <kirk.stant (AT) gmail (DOT) com> wrote