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Bryan
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 Posted: Wed Jan 25, 2006 1:37 am Post subject: EARL - not just to serve EDI |
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I have read quite a bit of criticism of the EARL project and thought it best
to start a new thread on a slightly different theme. I speak as a resident
of Edinburgh who oftens drives on the west side of town although as I don't
like getting stuck in gridlock I have to chose very carefully what time of
day I drive near the airport or the Gyle area. I remember the gridlock being
particularly bad in 2000 and that was long before the RBOS HQ was built
which has around 3000 workers! There are lots of large businesses near the
airport and there will be a lot more in the future.
I can see many commuters using the EARL station on their way to work nearby
rather than driving and when the highland show is on people come from all
over Scotland to the show. The EARL station could be one of the busiest in
Scotland. Even if the showground moves I feel it might move south of the
dual carriageway and there are many events that take place there apart from
the HS. EARL will make it much more attractive to hold events/fairs/shows in
the area.
Rail projects have often made a loss, look at the channel tunnel. Does
anyone know how long it was supposed to take for that to make a profit?
I don't fly all that often but I can see myself using EARL when built,
currently I get a taxi to Haymarket and use the airport bus. If replying to
this why not state if you ever fly from EDI and if you do whether you
(honestly) would use EARL or not. Have you ever been in traffic jams near
the airport? It is being designed to make EDI accessible from almost any
station in Scotland.
--
"you're not supposed to be sleeping Hawkeye!"
"I'm not sleeping Radar, I'm just inspecting the insides of my eyelids!"
"When you're down and out something will usually turn up...... often the
noses of your friends" - Orson Welles.
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Jim Mason
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Jan 25, 2006 6:28 am Post subject: Re: EARL - not just to serve EDI |
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In article <11tdli1fmsa3e4d (AT) corp (DOT) supernews.com>,
[email]bhendersonNOSPAM (AT) freenet (DOT) co.uk[/email] says...
| Quote: | I have read quite a bit of criticism of the EARL project and thought it best
to start a new thread on a slightly different theme. I speak as a resident
of Edinburgh who oftens drives on the west side of town although as I don't
like getting stuck in gridlock I have to chose very carefully what time of
day I drive near the airport or the Gyle area. I remember the gridlock being
particularly bad in 2000 and that was long before the RBOS HQ was built
which has around 3000 workers! There are lots of large businesses near the
airport and there will be a lot more in the future.
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If that were the criteria used for awarding railinks then the priority
would be for one at GLA if for nothing more than the amount emplyed at and
around the airport alone.
| Quote: | I can see many commuters using the EARL station on their way to work nearby
rather than driving and when the highland show is on people come from all
over Scotland to the show. The EARL station could be one of the busiest in
Scotland. Even if the showground moves I feel it might move south of the
dual carriageway and there are many events that take place there apart from
the HS. EARL will make it much more attractive to hold events/fairs/shows in
the area.
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Then again it could be one of the biggest white elephants in the history of
Scotland.
| Quote: | Rail projects have often made a loss, look at the channel tunnel. Does
anyone know how long it was supposed to take for that to make a profit?
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The Channel Tunnel was yet another project whos costs proved prohibitive to
ever making a profit. However back to EARL - it is claimed it is a
profitable scheme. Using the figures provided by the EARL project
management team (wholly owned by Eddinburgh City Council) I fail to see how
this can possibly be the case. Remember we are continually told the selling
point of this scheme is that it will be profitable.
| Quote: | I don't fly all that often but I can see myself using EARL when built,
currently I get a taxi to Haymarket and use the airport bus. If replying to
this why not state if you ever fly from EDI and if you do whether you
(honestly) would use EARL or not. Have you ever been in traffic jams near
the airport? It is being designed to make EDI accessible from almost any
station in Scotland.
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I for one would be unlikely to use EARL. I like the I suspect the majority
of people will continue to use private car or taxi on the occasions I fly
from EDI. EDI would be accessible from any railway station in Scotland with
a simple value for money spur line.
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Joe Curry
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Joe Curry
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Jan 25, 2006 7:05 am Post subject: Re: EARL - not just to serve EDI |
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The message <MPG.1e412b0165789f1c9897c3 (AT) news (DOT) individual.net>
from Jim Mason <jim.mason (AT) spamtrappedonline (DOT) co.uk> contains these words:
| Quote: | If that were the criteria used for awarding railinks then the priority
would be for one at GLA if for nothing more than the amount emplyed at and
around the airport alone.
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Which is happening, it will be open before EARL...
| Quote: | Then again it could be one of the biggest white elephants in the history of
Scotland.
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But it won't be, the M74 extension? Yes...
| Quote: | Rail projects have often made a loss, look at the channel tunnel. Does
anyone know how long it was supposed to take for that to make a profit?
I for one would be unlikely to use EARL.
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I doubt that..you will be tempted to get a cab to Queen Street and take
the train
to EDI direct..or would you prefer paying BAA £13 plus per day for parking and
undergoing the M8 slog..let the train take the strain and the pain...
--
www.edinburghairport.org.uk Edinburgh Scotland International
Scotland's most convenient/accessible/profitable/airport
The International Gateway with Scotland's busiest runway.
http://www2.germanwings.com/en/images/edinburgh_en.gif
http://www.hlx.com/img/teaser/ts_karte_edinburgh_en.gif
http://www.yabbers.com/phpbb/?mforum=edinburghairpor
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Joe Curry
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Jan 25, 2006 8:24 am Post subject: Re: EARL - not just to serve EDI |
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The message <MPG.1e412b0165789f1c9897c3 (AT) news (DOT) individual.net>
from Jim Mason <jim.mason (AT) spamtrappedonline (DOT) co.uk> contains these words:
| Quote: | However back to EARL - it is claimed it is a
profitable scheme. Using the figures provided by the EARL project
management team (wholly owned by Eddinburgh City Council) I fail to see how
this can possibly be the case. Remember we are continually told the selling
point of this scheme is that it will be profitable.
|
The following written answer was given on Monday 23 January.
Rail Network
Christine Grahame (South of Scotland) (SNP): To ask the Scottish
Executive what the order of strategic
priority is of current and proposed rail developments.
(S2W-22093)
Tavish Scott: Our first priority is to implement the major rail
infrastructure projects, as set out in the
Partnership Agreement, i.e. the rail links to Glasgow and Edinburgh
airports, the upgrade at Waverley
station, opening the Stirling to Alloa line, the Airdrie to Bathgate
line, and the Borders rail link. In addition,
we are considering what the rail strategy for the next 15 to 20 years
should be. We have consulted on the
strategic priorities, commissioned a Scottish Planning Assessment and
Network Rail are conducting a
Route Utilisation Study. These will provide the building blocks for
considering what further rail developments
will make the most positive impacts on the economy, society and
environment of Scotland in future. We expect
to produce the rail strategy in the summer and this will guide the
potential investments to be considered for
future funding by the Executive in the subsequent Strategic Projects
Review. Transport Scotland has the
operational responsibility for this area and can be contacted for more
information if required.
----------------------------------------------------------
It seems the Minister is not persuaded by Mason's manufactured pessimism
re the economic value of EARL.
Mind you, Tavish Scott only has a BA(honours) in Business Studies to
compete with Mason's economic brilliance.
The previous Minister, Nicol Stephen, graduated in law and once worked
as a senior manager with Touche
Ross Corporate Finance.
--
www.edinburghairport.org.uk Edinburgh Scotland International
Scotland's most convenient/accessible/profitable/airport
The International Gateway with Scotland's busiest runway.
http://www2.germanwings.com/en/images/edinburgh_en.gif
http://www.hlx.com/img/teaser/ts_karte_edinburgh_en.gif
http://www.yabbers.com/phpbb/?mforum=edinburghairpor
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bill
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Jan 26, 2006 2:40 pm Post subject: Re: EARL - not just to serve EDI |
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Bryan wrote:
| Quote: |
I can see many commuters using the EARL station on their way to work nearby
rather than driving and when the highland show is on people come from all
over Scotland to the show. The EARL station could be one of the busiest in
Scotland.
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Would these commuters not be better served by the existing Edinburgh
Park or South Gyle stations?
| Quote: |
I don't fly all that often but I can see myself using EARL when built,
currently I get a taxi to Haymarket and use the airport bus. If replying to
this why not state if you ever fly from EDI and if you do whether you
(honestly) would use EARL or not.
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Most probably not, unless I move to walking distance of a train station.
Most of my flights are early or late, and a taxi is the quickest and
least painful way to travel.
On a slight tangent, I flew into GLA last night, and can't see the case
for an expensive rail link there either. The airport bus had me at Queen
Street Station 15 minutes after leaving the terminal. And that was at
about 1830, when I would have expected a longer journey due to traffic.
I was in Edinburgh less than an hour after that.
| Quote: | Have you ever been in traffic jams near
the airport?
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Yes, many times.
| Quote: | It is being designed to make EDI accessible from almost any
station in Scotland.
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Which it would also be if a station was built on the Fife line.
--
Bill
http://www.taxiwayalpha.com/phpBB2/ - first for Edinburgh Airport news
Now 100% Guaranteed Joe Curry free - thank goodness for Yappers!
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GKirk
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Jan 26, 2006 3:03 pm Post subject: Re: EARL - not just to serve EDI |
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A question, I assume the airport would be served by dedicated trains?
If not, then this would no doubt add to congestion on current trains
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bill
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Jan 26, 2006 3:17 pm Post subject: Re: EARL - not just to serve EDI |
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GKirk wrote:
| Quote: | A question, I assume the airport would be served by dedicated trains?
If not, then this would no doubt add to congestion on current trains
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I don't believe so. The plan (in so far as it can be called a plan) is
for the Edin/Queen St and Edin/Fife/Aberdeen services to call in. No
dedicated "Edinburgh Express". Or no explanation on how this feat of
scheduling will be carried out on two tracks.
--
Bill
http://www.taxiwayalpha.com/phpBB2/ - first for Edinburgh Airport news
Now 100% Guaranteed Joe Curry free - thank goodness for Yappers!
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bill
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Jan 28, 2006 9:45 am Post subject: Re: EARL - not just to serve EDI |
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GKirk wrote:
| Quote: | A question, I assume the airport would be served by dedicated trains?
If not, then this would no doubt add to congestion on current trains
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I found the figures.
2 Edin-Glas trains an hour. the other two will run on the existing line.
2 Edin-Dunblane
2 Fife Circulars
1 Edin-Dundeee/Aberdeen
1 Edin-Perth/Inverness
8 per hour each way - so a nice high frequency for people whose
destination is Edinburgh (which would be the majority of pax).
Acceptable for the presumably smaller number of people heading to the
other destinations.
--
Bill
http://www.taxiwayalpha.com/phpBB2/ - first for Edinburgh Airport news
Now 100% Guaranteed Joe Curry free - thank goodness for Yappers!
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Bryan
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Feb 01, 2006 4:38 pm Post subject: Re: EARL - not just to serve EDI |
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"GKirk" <grahamkirk1983 (AT) gmail (DOT) com> wrote
| Quote: | A question, I assume the airport would be served by dedicated trains?
If not, then this would no doubt add to congestion on current trains
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there isn't any spare capacity at Waverly station for extra trains I have
read so it has to be existing trains rerouted through the EARL station.
There will be lots of times of the day when trains aren't so busy but it
won't be good at busy times although they might be able to put on extra
carriages to cope with the demand perhaps.
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Joe Curry
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Feb 01, 2006 5:43 pm Post subject: Re: EARL - not just to serve EDI |
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On Wed, 1 Feb 2006 16:38:17 -0000, "Bryan"
<bhendersonNOSPAM (AT) freenet (DOT) co.uk> wrote:
| Quote: | there isn't any spare capacity at Waverley station for extra trains I have
read so it has to be existing trains rerouted through the EARL station.
There will be lots of times of the day when trains aren't so busy but it
won't be good at busy times although they might be able to put on extra
carriages to cope with the demand perhaps.
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Or take some carriages off?
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bill
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Feb 01, 2006 6:36 pm Post subject: Re: EARL - not just to serve EDI |
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bill wrote:
| Quote: | GKirk wrote:
A question, I assume the airport would be served by dedicated trains?
If not, then this would no doubt add to congestion on current trains
I found the figures.
2 Edin-Glas trains an hour. the other two will run on the existing line.
2 Edin-Dunblane
2 Fife Circulars
1 Edin-Dundeee/Aberdeen
1 Edin-Perth/Inverness
8 per hour each way - so a nice high frequency for people whose
destination is Edinburgh (which would be the majority of pax).
Acceptable for the presumably smaller number of people heading to the
other destinations.
|
We are all familiar with the mantra that EARL will make EDI the easiest
airport in the north of UK to access (by rail).
This has been bothering me a bit. In the current GNER timetable 5 trains
a day (M-F) from Newcastle (and York and Doncaster and...) go north of
Edinburgh (4 to Aberdeen, one to Inverness via Falkirk). The others
either terminate or go to Glasgow Central.
How would EARL make EDI any more accessible than it already is to
Geordies? Or people from East Lothian for that matter?
On a slightly related matter, it was put to me today that running 2
Queen Street services through EARL would allow the Edin-Livvy service to
be upped to 4 per hour. Good news for Livvy (if not Edinburgh). Quite
how this is squared with the capacity problems between Haymarket and
Waverley I don't know. And will EARL be of any use to our Livvy
residents? Hardly, they'd have to change at Haymarket.
--
Bill
http://www.taxiwayalpha.com/phpBB2/ - first for Edinburgh Airport news
Now 100% Guaranteed Joe Curry free - thank goodness for Yappers!
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Mister Niceguy
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Feb 01, 2006 6:37 pm Post subject: Re: EARL - not just to serve EDI |
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Joe Curry <fox1 (AT) NOSPAM (DOT) edinburghairport.org.uk> wrote in
news:8os1u19qdq6a2psdkag85n73bvghe36g9q (AT) 4ax (DOT) com:
| Quote: | On Wed, 1 Feb 2006 16:38:17 -0000, "Bryan"
[email]bhendersonNOSPAM (AT) freenet (DOT) co.uk[/email]> wrote:
there isn't any spare capacity at Waverley station for extra trains I
have read so it has to be existing trains rerouted through the EARL
station. There will be lots of times of the day when trains aren't so
busy but it won't be good at busy times although they might be able to
put on extra carriages to cope with the demand perhaps.
Or take some carriages off?
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I think they work in threes (like Russian policemen IIRC).
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Joe Curry
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Feb 01, 2006 7:11 pm Post subject: Re: EARL - not just to serve EDI |
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On 01 Feb 2006 18:37:39 GMT, Mister Niceguy <me (AT) privacy (DOT) net> wrote:
| Quote: | Joe Curry <fox1 (AT) NOSPAM (DOT) edinburghairport.org.uk> wrote in
Or take some carriages off?
I think they work in threes (like Russian policemen IIRC).
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lol..there is talk of extending platforms to accommodate longer
trains..will the EARL platforms have 'starter strips' or will BAA
only respond to request from train companies.?
Assuming of course BAA have anything to do with EARL..
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GKirk
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Feb 01, 2006 7:43 pm Post subject: Re: EARL - not just to serve EDI |
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bill wrote:
| Quote: | bill wrote:
GKirk wrote:
A question, I assume the airport would be served by dedicated trains?
If not, then this would no doubt add to congestion on current trains
I found the figures.
2 Edin-Glas trains an hour. the other two will run on the existing line.
2 Edin-Dunblane
2 Fife Circulars
1 Edin-Dundeee/Aberdeen
1 Edin-Perth/Inverness
8 per hour each way - so a nice high frequency for people whose
destination is Edinburgh (which would be the majority of pax).
Acceptable for the presumably smaller number of people heading to the
other destinations.
We are all familiar with the mantra that EARL will make EDI the easiest
airport in the north of UK to access (by rail).
This has been bothering me a bit. In the current GNER timetable 5 trains
a day (M-F) from Newcastle (and York and Doncaster and...) go north of
Edinburgh (4 to Aberdeen, one to Inverness via Falkirk). The others
either terminate or go to Glasgow Central.
How would EARL make EDI any more accessible than it already is to
Geordies? Or people from East Lothian for that matter?
On a slightly related matter, it was put to me today that running 2
Queen Street services through EARL would allow the Edin-Livvy service to
be upped to 4 per hour. Good news for Livvy (if not Edinburgh). Quite
how this is squared with the capacity problems between Haymarket and
Waverley I don't know. And will EARL be of any use to our Livvy
residents? Hardly, they'd have to change at Haymarket.
--
Bill
http://www.taxiwayalpha.com/phpBB2/ - first for Edinburgh Airport news
Now 100% Guaranteed Joe Curry free - thank goodness for Yappers!
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Don't think EARL would come anywhere near as convenient as MAN in the
North for rail connections.
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