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Pits
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Rod Out Back
Guest
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 Posted: Wed Aug 10, 2005 8:06 am Post subject: Re: Dumb question re jet fuel -discussion |
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Actually, I have a question regarding Jet A1 as well...
Been trying to find the local airport refueller to ask if I can buy Jet A1
from him. I know he sold me some Jet-A1(~20L) some 5 years ago. He told me
at the time that he really shouldnt do so, but that he knew we had an
aircraft, so he could argue his way out of it (buggers me why; doubt the
172C was going to like Jet A1...)...
This time, I want to buy a 44 Gallon drum or so of it. Are there actually
reasons why I cant buy Jet-A1 without having an aircraft??? Why would there
be such a restriction, when I dont need to present a Landcruiser to buy
diesel by the drum... Is this something about his licence for operating an
airport franchise?
3 reasons for wanting the Jet-A1:-
1). Its far better for cleaning parts before re-assembly than either ULP or
diesel. It evaporates a bit slower than ULP, but far less residues in it.
2). I would like to trial using it to kill declared woody weeds (Parkinsonia
in particular). Currently, we mix 60:1 DieselAccess poison mix, and I
wondered if Jet-A1 might do the same job for less money. Tree poisoning
this year will cost around $3000 for the diesel alone....
3). We are buying a new kero heater to heat the kitchen in the mornings, and
Jet-A1 burns a heck of a lot cleaner than the crap they call kero at Mitre
10... AND, last time it was nearly half the price!
Your collective input would be appreciated.
--
Cheers,
Rod.......Out Back
"Pits" <spamlister (AT) gmail (DOT) com> wrote
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SR20GOER
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Aug 10, 2005 9:08 am Post subject: Re: Dumb question re jet fuel -discussion |
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"Rod Out Back" <someone (AT) IHATESPAM (DOT) BIGPOND.COM> wrote
| Quote: | Actually, I have a question regarding Jet A1 as well...
Been trying to find the local airport refueller to ask if I can buy Jet A1
from him. I know he sold me some Jet-A1(~20L) some 5 years ago. He told
me at the time that he really shouldnt do so, but that he knew we had an
aircraft, so he could argue his way out of it (buggers me why; doubt the
172C was going to like Jet A1...)...
This time, I want to buy a 44 Gallon drum or so of it. Are there actually
reasons why I cant buy Jet-A1 without having an aircraft??? Why would
there be such a restriction, when I dont need to present a Landcruiser to
buy diesel by the drum... Is this something about his licence for
operating an airport franchise?
3 reasons for wanting the Jet-A1:-
1). Its far better for cleaning parts before re-assembly than either ULP
or diesel. It evaporates a bit slower than ULP, but far less residues in
it.
2). I would like to trial using it to kill declared woody weeds
(Parkinsonia in particular). Currently, we mix 60:1 DieselAccess poison
mix, and I wondered if Jet-A1 might do the same job for less money. Tree
poisoning this year will cost around $3000 for the diesel alone....
3). We are buying a new kero heater to heat the kitchen in the mornings,
and Jet-A1 burns a heck of a lot cleaner than the crap they call kero at
Mitre 10... AND, last time it was nearly half the price!
Your collective input would be appreciated.
--
Cheers,
Rod.......Out Back
"Pits" <spamlister (AT) gmail (DOT) com> wrote in message
news:42f9752a$1 (AT) quokka (DOT) wn.com.au...
I was asked this morning ( by a bean counter of course)
'why can't Jet A1 be blended with alternative fuels to defray costs"?
At first said well better minds than mine have probably looked at it.
Might put it to the mob on this link http://www.willyoujoinus.com/
Interesting counter there also
Google only came up with these relative links .
http://www.biodiesel.org/resources/reportsdatabase/reports/gen/19981001_gen-106.pdf
http://www.eere.energy.gov/afdc/pdfs/p-series_final.pdf Govt bumph mainly
http://www.shell.ca/code/products/aviation/products/fuels.html
With alcohol based guess the water molecules would add a few problems
Part of the answer to his question is found here
http://www.ars.usda.gov/research/publications/publications.htm?SEQ_NO_115=158171
Substantial interesting links here
http://www.ars.usda.gov/pandp/people/people.htm?personid=1505
Ok - Aircraft may be out but marine and ground turbines appears no
problem
Not speaking here with any expertise apart from fuelling the Cessna Caravan |
with Avtur, and aircraft etc with avgas, but I believe if you buy for
non-aviation purposes he is meant to slug you tax etc and record the
purchase. Avgas comparison at present - for aircraft $1.30, for the race
boats and cars that bring their accreditation pass $2.00. Not sure of avtur
$.
Allegedly very bad in skin contact, far worse than avgas, known cause of
cancer problems.
Flash point is very low. Moderate day gets you to "bang" point. Spilt on
clothes, undress under shower or static elec can - so to speak - make an ash
of you.
Good article on its dangers in recent CASA safety mag - I treat with a lot
of respect now.
Brian
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Pits
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Aug 10, 2005 9:11 am Post subject: Re: Dumb question re jet fuel -discussion |
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Rod Out Back wrote:
| Quote: | Actually, I have a question regarding Jet A1 as well...
Been trying to find the local airport refueller to ask if I can buy Jet A1
from him. I know he sold me some Jet-A1(~20L) some 5 years ago. He told me
at the time that he really shouldnt do so, but that he knew we had an
aircraft, so he could argue his way out of it (buggers me why; doubt the
172C was going to like Jet A1...)...
This time, I want to buy a 44 Gallon drum or so of it. Are there actually
reasons why I cant buy Jet-A1 without having an aircraft??? Why would there
be such a restriction, when I dont need to present a Landcruiser to buy
diesel by the drum... Is this something about his licence for operating an
airport franchise?
|
Perhaps not That but for use other than a fuel it is classified as a S5
Poison from memory . I eventualy got approval after an ag dept
intercession. had 6 drums of Condemned Jet A1 been opened for the
chopper at various points .
If You have a carnet should be no trouble . Re the rest of your
question why not give Air BP a Ring on 1300 1300 27.
But i get it no trouble out here as an ALA for RFDS
Where about are you ?
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Pits
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Aug 10, 2005 9:24 am Post subject: Re: Dumb question re jet fuel -discussion |
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SR20GOER wrote:
| Quote: | "Rod Out Back" <someone (AT) IHATESPAM (DOT) BIGPOND.COM> wrote in message
news:aAiKe.78240$oJ.22786 (AT) news-server (DOT) bigpond.net.au...
Actually, I have a question regarding Jet A1 as well...
Been trying to find the local airport refueller to ask if I can buy Jet A1
from him. I know he sold me some Jet-A1(~20L) some 5 years ago. He told
me at the time that he really shouldnt do so, but that he knew we had an
aircraft, so he could argue his way out of it (buggers me why; doubt the
172C was going to like Jet A1...)...
This time, I want to buy a 44 Gallon drum or so of it. Are there actually
reasons why I cant buy Jet-A1 without having an aircraft??? Why would
there be such a restriction, when I dont need to present a Landcruiser to
buy diesel by the drum... Is this something about his licence for
operating an airport franchise?
3 reasons for wanting the Jet-A1:-
1). Its far better for cleaning parts before re-assembly than either ULP
or diesel. It evaporates a bit slower than ULP, but far less residues in
it.
2). I would like to trial using it to kill declared woody weeds
(Parkinsonia in particular). Currently, we mix 60:1 DieselAccess poison
mix, and I wondered if Jet-A1 might do the same job for less money. Tree
poisoning this year will cost around $3000 for the diesel alone....
3). We are buying a new kero heater to heat the kitchen in the mornings,
and Jet-A1 burns a heck of a lot cleaner than the crap they call kero at
Mitre 10... AND, last time it was nearly half the price!
Your collective input would be appreciated.
--
Cheers,
Rod.......Out Back
"Pits" <spamlister (AT) gmail (DOT) com> wrote in message
news:42f9752a$1 (AT) quokka (DOT) wn.com.au...
I was asked this morning ( by a bean counter of course)
'why can't Jet A1 be blended with alternative fuels to defray costs"?
At first said well better minds than mine have probably looked at it.
Might put it to the mob on this link http://www.willyoujoinus.com/
Interesting counter there also
Google only came up with these relative links .
http://www.biodiesel.org/resources/reportsdatabase/reports/gen/19981001_gen-106.pdf
http://www.eere.energy.gov/afdc/pdfs/p-series_final.pdf Govt bumph mainly
http://www.shell.ca/code/products/aviation/products/fuels.html
With alcohol based guess the water molecules would add a few problems
Part of the answer to his question is found here
http://www.ars.usda.gov/research/publications/publications.htm?SEQ_NO_115=158171
Substantial interesting links here
http://www.ars.usda.gov/pandp/people/people.htm?personid=1505
Ok - Aircraft may be out but marine and ground turbines appears no
problem
Not speaking here with any expertise apart from fuelling the Cessna Caravan
with Avtur, and aircraft etc with avgas, but I believe if you buy for
non-aviation purposes he is meant to slug you tax etc and record the
purchase. Avgas comparison at present - for aircraft $1.30, for the race
boats and cars that bring their accreditation pass $2.00. Not sure of avtur
$.
Allegedly very bad in skin contact, far worse than avgas, known cause of
cancer problems.
Flash point is very low. Moderate day gets you to "bang" point. Spilt on
clothes, undress under shower or static elec can - so to speak - make an ash
of you.
Good article on its dangers in recent CASA safety mag - I treat with a lot
of respect now.
Brian
Of Course EVERY one reads thier Material data safety sheets don't they  |
Its all in there Brian Also on web if the potential Darwin award folks
care to look.
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RT
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Aug 10, 2005 10:03 am Post subject: Re: Dumb question re jet fuel -discussion |
|
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"Rod Out Back" <someone (AT) IHATESPAM (DOT) BIGPOND.COM> wrote
| Quote: | Actually, I have a question regarding Jet A1 as well...
Been trying to find the local airport refueller to ask if I can buy Jet A1
from him. I know he sold me some Jet-A1(~20L) some 5 years ago. He told
me at the time that he really shouldnt do so, but that he knew we had an
aircraft, so he could argue his way out of it (buggers me why; doubt the
172C was going to like Jet A1...)...
This time, I want to buy a 44 Gallon drum or so of it. Are there actually
reasons why I cant buy Jet-A1 without having an aircraft??? Why would
there be such a restriction, when I dont need to present a Landcruiser to
buy diesel by the drum... Is this something about his licence for
operating an airport franchise?
3 reasons for wanting the Jet-A1:-
1). Its far better for cleaning parts before re-assembly than either ULP
or diesel. It evaporates a bit slower than ULP, but far less residues in
it.
2). I would like to trial using it to kill declared woody weeds
(Parkinsonia in particular). Currently, we mix 60:1 DieselAccess poison
mix, and I wondered if Jet-A1 might do the same job for less money. Tree
poisoning this year will cost around $3000 for the diesel alone....
3). We are buying a new kero heater to heat the kitchen in the mornings,
and Jet-A1 burns a heck of a lot cleaner than the crap they call kero at
Mitre 10... AND, last time it was nearly half the price!
|
a) Claim you want it for an old power kero tractor (you can't use lighting
kero in them more than a very noisy once)
b) Forget the aerodrome and go direct to your usual fuel supplier,
requesting Jet-A1.
c) Go direct to your usual fuel supplier requesting power kero *or
equivalent* using a) above.
d) Chat up the aerodrome refueller and offer to take the water checks off
his hands for nothing - will only work if your aerodrome has reasonable
sized a/c thru it so the volume of water check is substantial. Note that
the "nothing" must be just that else he goes to jail. However you can
always make a donation to his favourite charity - or whatever.
e) AFAIK it is no longer available, but you MIGHT be able to get power
kero - as power kero - which is remarkably similar :-)
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Mal
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Aug 10, 2005 10:31 am Post subject: Re: Dumb question re jet fuel -discussion |
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do a fuel drain on a jet A1 aircraft lol
"RT" <notr.thomas (AT) nowhere (DOT) com.au> wrote
| Quote: |
"Rod Out Back" <someone (AT) IHATESPAM (DOT) BIGPOND.COM> wrote in message
news:aAiKe.78240$oJ.22786 (AT) news-server (DOT) bigpond.net.au...
Actually, I have a question regarding Jet A1 as well...
Been trying to find the local airport refueller to ask if I can buy Jet
A1 from him. I know he sold me some Jet-A1(~20L) some 5 years ago. He
told me at the time that he really shouldnt do so, but that he knew we
had an aircraft, so he could argue his way out of it (buggers me why;
doubt the 172C was going to like Jet A1...)...
This time, I want to buy a 44 Gallon drum or so of it. Are there
actually reasons why I cant buy Jet-A1 without having an aircraft??? Why
would there be such a restriction, when I dont need to present a
Landcruiser to buy diesel by the drum... Is this something about his
licence for operating an airport franchise?
3 reasons for wanting the Jet-A1:-
1). Its far better for cleaning parts before re-assembly than either ULP
or diesel. It evaporates a bit slower than ULP, but far less residues in
it.
2). I would like to trial using it to kill declared woody weeds
(Parkinsonia in particular). Currently, we mix 60:1 DieselAccess poison
mix, and I wondered if Jet-A1 might do the same job for less money. Tree
poisoning this year will cost around $3000 for the diesel alone....
3). We are buying a new kero heater to heat the kitchen in the mornings,
and Jet-A1 burns a heck of a lot cleaner than the crap they call kero at
Mitre 10... AND, last time it was nearly half the price!
a) Claim you want it for an old power kero tractor (you can't use
lighting kero in them more than a very noisy once)
b) Forget the aerodrome and go direct to your usual fuel supplier,
requesting Jet-A1.
c) Go direct to your usual fuel supplier requesting power kero *or
equivalent* using a) above.
d) Chat up the aerodrome refueller and offer to take the water checks off
his hands for nothing - will only work if your aerodrome has reasonable
sized a/c thru it so the volume of water check is substantial. Note that
the "nothing" must be just that else he goes to jail. However you can
always make a donation to his favourite charity - or whatever.
e) AFAIK it is no longer available, but you MIGHT be able to get power
kero - as power kero - which is remarkably similar :-)
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RT
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Aug 10, 2005 10:56 am Post subject: Re: Dumb question re jet fuel -discussion |
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"Mal" <spam (AT) bigpond (DOT) net.au> wrote
| Quote: | do a fuel drain on a jet A1 aircraft lol
|
| Quote: | "RT" <notr.thomas (AT) nowhere (DOT) com.au> wrote in message
news:3lu1naF14av2jU1 (AT) individual (DOT) net...
|
http://www.b737.org.uk/preflight737200.htm :
"B737-200/P&WJT8D Engine Maintenance Preflight Inspection Checklist
D. REFUELLING/SERVICING:-
Check fuel sample for contamination and water.
Refuel to required figure, install fuel caps and record figures in P.D.R.
Service water system & Toilets. "
Errrrm... D.1. ?
Top-posting idiot................
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RT
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Aug 10, 2005 11:20 am Post subject: Re: Dumb question re jet fuel -discussion |
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"RT" <notr.thomas (AT) nowhere (DOT) com.au> wrote
| Quote: |
"Mal" <spam (AT) bigpond (DOT) net.au> wrote in message
news:bIkKe.78384$oJ.16788 (AT) news-server (DOT) bigpond.net.au...
do a fuel drain on a jet A1 aircraft lol
|
| Quote: | "RT" <notr.thomas (AT) nowhere (DOT) com.au> wrote in message
news:3lu1naF14av2jU1 (AT) individual (DOT) net...
http://www.b737.org.uk/preflight737200.htm :
"B737-200/P&WJT8D Engine Maintenance Preflight Inspection Checklist
D. REFUELLING/SERVICING:-
1 Check fuel sample for contamination and water.
2 Refuel to required figure, install fuel caps and record figures in
P.D.R.
3 Service water system & Toilets. "
Errrrm... D.1. ?
Top-posting idiot................
|
Oh, and from the same source:
"
C. FUSELAGE, WINGS AND EMPENNAGE:-
1 Radome, exterior fuselage, cabin windows, access doors, Pitot tubes,
Static Ports, Air conditioning Inlet, all probes, sensors, antennas, wings,
empennage including control surfaces and static dischargers.
2 Lower wing surfaces, wing tips, tank vents and Flame arrestor relief valve
poppet [if installed].
3 APU Fire bottle pressure and safety discs, oxygen cylinder pressure and
discharge disc. APU Low Oil quantity light out.
4 Correct Bottle Pressure for all four Escape slide indicator.
5 Check all navigation, landing/taxying, emergency strobe lights and OP/C of
Rotating beacons, emerg. exit path markings.
6 Check spare bulbs and fuses.
7 Cockpit windows for cleanliness.
8 Ensure cabin cleanliness and toilet servicing.
9 Drain water from fuel tanks if halt exceeds 6 hours. "
Notice Item 9 ?
Or were you under the impression that jet a/c were coal fired?
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Rod Out Back
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Aug 10, 2005 12:10 pm Post subject: Re: Dumb question re jet fuel -discussion |
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Yeah, thats how I got the last 2 drums...Wish I'd had a dozen more drums at
the time...
Cheers,
Rod.......Out Back
"Mal" <spam (AT) bigpond (DOT) net.au> wrote
| Quote: | do a fuel drain on a jet A1 aircraft lol
"RT" <notr.thomas (AT) nowhere (DOT) com.au> wrote in message
news:3lu1naF14av2jU1 (AT) individual (DOT) net...
"Rod Out Back" <someone (AT) IHATESPAM (DOT) BIGPOND.COM> wrote in message
news:aAiKe.78240$oJ.22786 (AT) news-server (DOT) bigpond.net.au...
Actually, I have a question regarding Jet A1 as well...
Been trying to find the local airport refueller to ask if I can buy Jet
A1 from him. I know he sold me some Jet-A1(~20L) some 5 years ago. He
told me at the time that he really shouldnt do so, but that he knew we
had an aircraft, so he could argue his way out of it (buggers me why;
doubt the 172C was going to like Jet A1...)...
This time, I want to buy a 44 Gallon drum or so of it. Are there
actually reasons why I cant buy Jet-A1 without having an aircraft??? Why
would there be such a restriction, when I dont need to present a
Landcruiser to buy diesel by the drum... Is this something about his
licence for operating an airport franchise?
3 reasons for wanting the Jet-A1:-
1). Its far better for cleaning parts before re-assembly than either ULP
or diesel. It evaporates a bit slower than ULP, but far less residues in
it.
2). I would like to trial using it to kill declared woody weeds
(Parkinsonia in particular). Currently, we mix 60:1 DieselAccess poison
mix, and I wondered if Jet-A1 might do the same job for less money.
Tree poisoning this year will cost around $3000 for the diesel alone....
3). We are buying a new kero heater to heat the kitchen in the mornings,
and Jet-A1 burns a heck of a lot cleaner than the crap they call kero at
Mitre 10... AND, last time it was nearly half the price!
a) Claim you want it for an old power kero tractor (you can't use
lighting kero in them more than a very noisy once)
b) Forget the aerodrome and go direct to your usual fuel supplier,
requesting Jet-A1.
c) Go direct to your usual fuel supplier requesting power kero *or
equivalent* using a) above.
d) Chat up the aerodrome refueller and offer to take the water checks
off his hands for nothing - will only work if your aerodrome has
reasonable sized a/c thru it so the volume of water check is substantial.
Note that the "nothing" must be just that else he goes to jail. However
you can always make a donation to his favourite charity - or whatever.
e) AFAIK it is no longer available, but you MIGHT be able to get power
kero - as power kero - which is remarkably similar :-)
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prep@prep.synonet.com
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Aug 10, 2005 7:02 pm Post subject: Re: Dumb question re jet fuel -discussion |
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"RT" <notr.thomas (AT) nowhere (DOT) com.au> writes:
| Quote: | e) AFAIK it is no longer available, but you MIGHT be able to get
power kero - as power kero - which is remarkably similar
|
At the farm sale the buyer of the remaining half a drum or so of
Power kero was very happy, as he said you can't get it for any price
any where.
That drum was as old as me, or more...
--
Paul Repacholi 1 Crescent Rd.,
+61 (0 9257-1001 Kalamunda.
West Australia 6076
comp.os.vms,- The Older, Grumpier Slashdot
Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.
EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.
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prep@prep.synonet.com
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Aug 10, 2005 7:04 pm Post subject: Re: Dumb question re jet fuel -discussion |
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"RT" <notr.thomas (AT) nowhere (DOT) com.au> writes:
| Quote: | Or were you under the impression that jet a/c were coal fired?
|
Looking at the back of a JT8D tends cause thoughties like that ;)
--
Paul Repacholi 1 Crescent Rd.,
+61 (0 9257-1001 Kalamunda.
West Australia 6076
comp.os.vms,- The Older, Grumpier Slashdot
Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.
EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.
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Mal
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Aug 10, 2005 8:20 pm Post subject: Re: Dumb question re jet fuel -discussion |
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When my new reader starts the curser goes to the top just to keep RT happy I
will from this day on only post on top.
| Quote: | Top-posting idiot................
|
For RT
How to survive newsgroups and forums
Top posting, the biggest cause of friction on newsgroups?
A search on Google for the phrase,"top posting" (at the time of writing)
brings up 2,680,000 results. The same search on Google's newsgroup archive
brings up, 1,700,000 posts, most of which are either arguments, flames or
serious debate. Top posting is a hot topic.
This is one of the most contentious and misunderstood aspects of Usenet and
Newsgroups. If someone has replied to one of your posts and included a link
to this section, then please don't take offence. Please read, and then
decide how to respond.
What is top posting?
Top posting is when a post is replied to in a newsgroup by writing a reply
on top of the original post instead of underneath (in the same way as you
might do when replying to a private email)
Why do so many people do top posting?
It's what most of us do with e-mails. When only two people are following the
correspondence and it's unlikely anyone else will need to read all the
e-mails at a later date, it's by far the best way to conduct a conversation.
It seems pretty logical to do the same on a newsgroup unless you know
different.
Most new users, who are unaware of how newsgroups and usenet works,
instinctively top post. This annoys many people who come accross it every
day from new users. It's a bit like if you frequented a club, and the
consencious of users was to leave the door open for fresh air, most new
visitors would instinctively close the door behind them. No matter how
polite you started off, most members would eventually tire of asking for the
door to be left open and explaining the reasons why. Many members would
start to snap at the fiftieth person - who would then get indignant at the
way they were spoken to. Many "fiftieth people" would be likely to then
leave the door closed out of indignation or stubbornness and this is what
happens on newsgroups too.
Many good intentioned people point top posters to a source that explain the
rules. The "offender" often feels embarrassed or indignant and becomes
defensive. Let's face it, the rules aren't in an obvious place, and no one
told most of us when we signed up to an ISP that there are any rules at all.
Instead of being grateful for being pointed in the right direction, many
people just become over defensive. Some seem to take up top posting as a
method of showing how they won't be told what to do, or to annoy those stuck
up people who snapped at them.
Ironically, I believe that many people paint themselves into a corner by
over reacting. They can then find it impossible to back down, even if they
subsequently realise and accept the logic behind bottom posting.
What's good about top posting?
Top posting is very quick and convenient. You just read a post, decide to
add your views to it and send it off. The great thing is that anyone reading
it will get your words straight away, at the top of the post and they won't
have to scroll down to read it either.
What's not so good about top posting?
To really appreciate why people object to top posting you have to remember
that newsgroups are a public resource. Many of the news groups have a
cliquey feel to them and it's easy to get the impression that only a small
number of people regularly use them. The truth is that people who only read
and never post anything (lurkers) outnumber the active posters by anything
from 10:1 to 100:1.
The majority of newsgroups are there for people to ask questions on a
specialist subject, and get answers from people with greater knowledge. The
posts we make on news groups are archived for decades - maybe for ever - and
will get served up by search engines for years to come as people seek
knowledge on certain subjects. It's the fact that the news groups are an
archived resource for people that come after us (the next day or years
later) that makes it the decent thing to do to try and allow others to be
able to follow the threads.
Quite simply, it is impossible to follow a thread where top posting has
occurred because the order gets totally jumbled up. People trying to read
the information in these posts will often need to (want to) follow how the
conversation evolved.
Also, people who top post don't edit the previous quoted post so the size of
the post is often considerably larger than necessary.
Top posting doesn't cause any major problems for the immediate few who may
be participating in a discussion. For this reason, some informal news
groups, that maybe just chat and have a laugh may even allow top posting.
Lot's of people don't like rules, and take great offence to anyone telling
them what they can and can't do. The fact is that you can do what you want.
If you want to top post then you can - and no one can stop you. My only
advice is to at least look into why these people get so high and mighty
about it and then, if you still decide to top post, do so in the full
knowledge that you are making it difficult for other people and accept the
inevitable flack as a price to pay for your freedom of choice.
Too much scrolling
Finally, top posters often justify the practice by claiming that bottom
posting causes people to have to scroll (often a couple of screen lengths)
to read new material. This is extremely frustrating when the new material
turns out to be just one sentence or something as pointless as, "I agree".
The important thing to remember here is that this problem is caused not by
bottom posting, but by a lack of editing (or snipping) by the bottom poster
and is another major problem which has nothing to do with bottom/top
posting.
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JD
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Aug 10, 2005 8:52 pm Post subject: Re: Dumb question re jet fuel -discussion |
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Rod Out Back wrote:
| Quote: | Actually, I have a question regarding Jet A1 as well...
Been trying to find the local airport refueller to ask if I can buy Jet A1
from him. I know he sold me some Jet-A1(~20L) some 5 years ago. He told
me at the time that he really shouldnt do so, but that he knew we had an
aircraft, so he could argue his way out of it (buggers me why; doubt the
172C was going to like Jet A1...)...
This time, I want to buy a 44 Gallon drum or so of it. Are there actually
reasons why I cant buy Jet-A1 without having an aircraft??? Why would
there be such a restriction, when I dont need to present a Landcruiser to
buy diesel by the drum... Is this something about his licence for
operating an airport franchise?
3 reasons for wanting the Jet-A1:-
1). Its far better for cleaning parts before re-assembly than either ULP
or diesel. It evaporates a bit slower than ULP, but far less residues in
it.
2). I would like to trial using it to kill declared woody weeds
(Parkinsonia in particular). Currently, we mix 60:1 DieselAccess poison
mix, and I
wondered if Jet-A1 might do the same job for less money. Tree poisoning
this year will cost around $3000 for the diesel alone....
3). We are buying a new kero heater to heat the kitchen in the mornings,
and Jet-A1 burns a heck of a lot cleaner than the crap they call kero at
Mitre 10... AND, last time it was nearly half the price!
Your collective input would be appreciated.
|
I am surprised at your last comment. About eight years ago I was after some
kerosine for the stove on my boat when at Hamilton Island. Not available at
any price, but if I supplied a container and asked no questions some JetA1
was available at no charge. It burnt with no problems and other than colour
was indistinguishable from lighting kerosine. Following this I followed it
up, and was advised that owing to the low demand lighting kerosine was no
longer produced, but in fact was identical to JetA1.
JD
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SR20GOER
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Aug 10, 2005 9:50 pm Post subject: Re: Dumb question re jet fuel -discussion |
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"Pits" <spamlister (AT) gmail (DOT) com> wrote
| Quote: | SR20GOER wrote:
"Rod Out Back" <someone (AT) IHATESPAM (DOT) BIGPOND.COM> wrote in message
news:aAiKe.78240$oJ.22786 (AT) news-server (DOT) bigpond.net.au...
Actually, I have a question regarding Jet A1 as well...
Been trying to find the local airport refueller to ask if I can buy Jet
A1 from him. I know he sold me some Jet-A1(~20L) some 5 years ago. He
told me at the time that he really shouldnt do so, but that he knew we
had an aircraft, so he could argue his way out of it (buggers me why;
doubt the 172C was going to like Jet A1...)...
This time, I want to buy a 44 Gallon drum or so of it. Are there
actually reasons why I cant buy Jet-A1 without having an aircraft??? Why
would there be such a restriction, when I dont need to present a
Landcruiser to buy diesel by the drum... Is this something about his
licence for operating an airport franchise?
3 reasons for wanting the Jet-A1:-
1). Its far better for cleaning parts before re-assembly than either ULP
or diesel. It evaporates a bit slower than ULP, but far less residues in
it.
2). I would like to trial using it to kill declared woody weeds
(Parkinsonia in particular). Currently, we mix 60:1 DieselAccess poison
mix, and I wondered if Jet-A1 might do the same job for less money. Tree
poisoning this year will cost around $3000 for the diesel alone....
3). We are buying a new kero heater to heat the kitchen in the mornings,
and Jet-A1 burns a heck of a lot cleaner than the crap they call kero at
Mitre 10... AND, last time it was nearly half the price!
Your collective input would be appreciated.
--
Cheers,
Rod.......Out Back
"Pits" <spamlister (AT) gmail (DOT) com> wrote in message
news:42f9752a$1 (AT) quokka (DOT) wn.com.au...
I was asked this morning ( by a bean counter of course)
'why can't Jet A1 be blended with alternative fuels to defray costs"?
At first said well better minds than mine have probably looked at it.
Might put it to the mob on this link http://www.willyoujoinus.com/
Interesting counter there also
Google only came up with these relative links .
http://www.biodiesel.org/resources/reportsdatabase/reports/gen/19981001_gen-106.pdf
http://www.eere.energy.gov/afdc/pdfs/p-series_final.pdf Govt bumph
mainly
http://www.shell.ca/code/products/aviation/products/fuels.html
With alcohol based guess the water molecules would add a few problems
Part of the answer to his question is found here
http://www.ars.usda.gov/research/publications/publications.htm?SEQ_NO_115=158171
Substantial interesting links here
http://www.ars.usda.gov/pandp/people/people.htm?personid=1505
Ok - Aircraft may be out but marine and ground turbines appears no
problem
Not speaking here with any expertise apart from fuelling the Cessna
Caravan with Avtur, and aircraft etc with avgas, but I believe if you buy
for non-aviation purposes he is meant to slug you tax etc and record the
purchase. Avgas comparison at present - for aircraft $1.30, for the race
boats and cars that bring their accreditation pass $2.00. Not sure of
avtur $.
Allegedly very bad in skin contact, far worse than avgas, known cause of
cancer problems.
Flash point is very low. Moderate day gets you to "bang" point. Spilt
on clothes, undress under shower or static elec can - so to speak - make
an ash of you.
Good article on its dangers in recent CASA safety mag - I treat with a
lot of respect now.
Brian
Of Course EVERY one reads thier Material data safety sheets don't they
Its all in there Brian Also on web if the potential Darwin award folks
care to look.
Pits |
Interesting point. I think the MDS are made available to staff but not to
others.
Raises the issue that perhaps the existence of the MDS should be featured in
the syllabus for pilot training as an OH&S issue.
I might refer it to CASA as I'm organising some comment on their draft
latest instructor training manual.
Brian
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