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Jay Honeck Guest
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Posted: Tue Jun 06, 2006 6:11 am Post subject: Dumb & Dumber |
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As we were preparing to depart the Quad Cities Air Show yesterday (an
outstanding show, BTW, with the Blue Angels and perfect spring weather), I
became aware of a Piper Warrior having difficulty a few aircraft down from
us.
All transient aircraft had been parked in the grass off the parallel taxiway
for Rwy 15/33, and it seemed that this fellow was having trouble taxiing
back up onto the hard surface. His nosewheel was tight up against the
concrete lip, and he wasn't going anywhere now that he had lost his "running
start" at the step. I recognized the Warrior's tail number as being a
well-used rental bird from a nearby airport...
Just as we started walking toward him to lend a hand, he shut the engine
down, and the door popped open. I figured he'd push the plane back for
another try at it, or perhaps try pulling the plane up onto the hard surface
with a tow bar.
Instead, out popped this guy's girl friend, who proceeded to walk back to
the stabilator, hunch down, put her shoulder into it, and started to PUSH
THE PLANE BACK ON THE GRASS, straining as hard as she could!
Appalled, I started to shout something, but I was too far away to be heard.
In horror I watched as she pushed the plane backwards through the grass
about ten feet, not by pushing on anything sturdy, but by really leaning
into the thin aluminum, whilst her boyfriend sat all the while quite
comfortably strapped into his seat.
Worse, she wasn't pushing down near the fuselage, where it might take the
load, but was rather giving her all way out at the end, by the fiberglass
tip, obviously unaware of the tremendous twisting force she was exerting on
the Piper's relatively delicate empennage.
Before I could move further, she stood up, wiped her hands on her shorts,
and hopped back in the plane. This time he really gunned the engine and
popped right up onto the hard surface, and taxied merrily away -- completely
oblivious to the hidden damage his girlfriend may have just wrought on that
Warrior.
If there was ever any doubt as to why we were so happy to get out of the
aircraft rental market, this was it. Anyone who has ever seen the
sturdy-yet delicate structure of the Cherokee's stabilator knows that it was
never designed for asymmetric twisting forces like that girl imposed, and
God only knows what hidden damage may have been wrought in those few seconds
of awesome stupidity.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"
--
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination" |
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Mortimer Schnerd, RN Guest
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Posted: Tue Jun 06, 2006 6:11 am Post subject: Re: Dumb & Dumber |
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Jay Honeck wrote:
| Quote: | As we were preparing to depart the Quad Cities Air Show yesterday (an
If there was ever any doubt as to why we were so happy to get out of the
aircraft rental market, this was it. Anyone who has ever seen the
sturdy-yet delicate structure of the Cherokee's stabilator knows that it was
never designed for asymmetric twisting forces like that girl imposed, and
God only knows what hidden damage may have been wrought in those few seconds
of awesome stupidity.
|
Since you recognize the bird, you'd be doing somebody a tremendous favor by
cluing in their maintenance facility to the possibility of damage. If something
ever happens to that airplane where it comes apart in the air and you didn't
warn them, you'll never be able to live with yourself.
Hey, it might be nothing... but it might mean the lives of a family of four.
--
Mortimer Schnerd, RN
mschnerd (AT) carolina (DOT) rr.com.REMOVE |
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Guest
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Posted: Tue Jun 06, 2006 6:11 am Post subject: Re: Dumb & Dumber |
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"Jay Honeck" <jjhoneck (AT) NOSPAMmchsi (DOT) com> wrote:
| Quote: | If there was ever any doubt as to why we were so happy to get out of the
aircraft rental market, this was it. Anyone who has ever seen the
sturdy-yet delicate structure of the Cherokee's stabilator knows that it was
never designed for asymmetric twisting forces like that girl imposed, and
God only knows what hidden damage may have been wrought in those few seconds
of awesome stupidity.
|
Stupidity, and laziness, on his part, likely just lack of knowledge on
hers (not because she's a woman, but because by the time most people are
pilots, they've been schooled on where NOT to push). |
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Matt Whiting Guest
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Posted: Wed Jun 07, 2006 5:59 am Post subject: Re: Dumb & Dumber |
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Dave Stadt wrote:
| Quote: | "Morgans" <jessmorgan (AT) cJhUaNrKter (DOT) net> wrote in message
news:VFohg.50$rL4.46 (AT) fe03 (DOT) lga...
"Mortimer Schnerd, RN" <mortschnerd (AT) carolina (DOT) rr.com.REMOVE> wrote
Do a google search on the Janitrol heater. It's the one which used to
leak carbon monoxide in such quanities that I had the choice of flying
with a blanket or flying with a headache. It drew fuel directly out of
the wing tanks on the PA-23. Many light twins used it... and some not so
light: the C-47 had one too.
I was not aware that VW's ever used janitrol heaters. I know of their use
in aircraft, and all of the problems they can cause.
I'm simply amazed that a car would have one of those "creatures." What
ever happened to VW simplicity? The good old heat muff? Of course, their
problems are well know too, but at least they don't involve flammable
liquids!
--
Jim in NC
Even the Beetle offered one as an option. The standard heater was a joke.
I spent a couple of winters in the late '60s with a brand new Beetle with
the stock heater and after that I will never own a Volkswagen product. We
used to open the windows in below zero temperatures to warm up.
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You won't buy a VW product today because of the heater design of a car
they designed in the 1930s? Wow...
I guess you don't fly aluminum airplanes either or those powered by a
Lycoming or Continental... :-)
Matt |
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Morgans Guest
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Posted: Wed Jun 07, 2006 6:11 am Post subject: Re: Dumb & Dumber |
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"Dave Stadt" <dhstadt (AT) ameritech (DOT) net> wrote
| Quote: | Even the Beetle offered one as an option. The standard heater was a joke.
I spent a couple of winters in the late '60s with a brand new Beetle with
the stock heater and after that I will never own a Volkswagen product. We
used to open the windows in below zero temperatures to warm up.
|
I owned a 68 Corvair, while I still lived in Northern Ohio, and it had a
heater to die for! The difference is that the Corvair used heat off of the
cooling fins, and it would get so hot, if you left your hand directly in
front of the outlet for more than about 10 seconds, you would scald your
hand!
The problem came with the push-rod O-ring seals. I (with Dad) replaced them
at the start of every winter, then you got no oil on the fins, and thus, no
CO. He made a tool to pull the tubes, and we could get the job done in a
hour or two.
The Beetle I owned was in NC, and the heater was a joke, but at least I
didn't need it very much. The defroster was my big complaint.
--
Jim in NC |
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Scott Skylane Guest
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Posted: Wed Jun 07, 2006 6:11 am Post subject: Re: Dumb & Dumber |
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Mortimer Schnerd, RN wrote:
/snip/ Many light twins used it... and some not so light: the C-47 had
The DC-6 has four: one for the cabin and three for the wings and tail.
Happy Flying!
Scott Skylane |
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Dave Stadt Guest
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Posted: Wed Jun 07, 2006 6:11 am Post subject: Re: Dumb & Dumber |
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"Matt Whiting" <whiting (AT) epix (DOT) net> wrote in message
news:Exphg.9367$lb.842658 (AT) news1 (DOT) epix.net...
| Quote: | Dave Stadt wrote:
"Morgans" <jessmorgan (AT) cJhUaNrKter (DOT) net> wrote in message
news:VFohg.50$rL4.46 (AT) fe03 (DOT) lga...
"Mortimer Schnerd, RN" <mortschnerd (AT) carolina (DOT) rr.com.REMOVE> wrote
Do a google search on the Janitrol heater. It's the one which used to
leak carbon monoxide in such quanities that I had the choice of flying
with a blanket or flying with a headache. It drew fuel directly out of
the wing tanks on the PA-23. Many light twins used it... and some not
so light: the C-47 had one too.
I was not aware that VW's ever used janitrol heaters. I know of their
use in aircraft, and all of the problems they can cause.
I'm simply amazed that a car would have one of those "creatures." What
ever happened to VW simplicity? The good old heat muff? Of course,
their problems are well know too, but at least they don't involve
flammable liquids!
--
Jim in NC
Even the Beetle offered one as an option. The standard heater was a
joke. I spent a couple of winters in the late '60s with a brand new
Beetle with the stock heater and after that I will never own a Volkswagen
product. We used to open the windows in below zero temperatures to warm
up.
You won't buy a VW product today because of the heater design of a car
they designed in the 1930s? Wow...
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That's right. If they built the things from the 1930s to 1968 and still
couldn't get the heater to work that's fatal in my book.
| Quote: | I guess you don't fly aluminum airplanes either or those powered by a
Lycoming or Continental...
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Rag wings but the rest is aluminium. Continental is OK but not sure about
Lycoming. Would prefer round as those flat ones are still wet behind the
ears.
> Matt |
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Dave Stadt Guest
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Posted: Wed Jun 07, 2006 6:11 am Post subject: Re: Dumb & Dumber |
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"Montblack" <Y4-NOT...4monty4blacky (AT) yvisiy (DOT) com> wrote in message
news:128c967i1rj4m40 (AT) corp (DOT) supernews.com...
| Quote: | ("Dave Stadt" wrote)
Even the Beetle offered one as an option. The standard heater was a
joke. I spent a couple of winters in the late '60s with a brand new
Beetle with the stock heater and after that I will never own a Volkswagen
product. We used to open the windows in below zero temperatures to warm
up.
On your 7 year old "winter beater" in 1978:
Saw-off, where the hot air tube in the engine bay splits (to run warm air
under the OUTSIDE floorboards!!!). Connect a hairdryer type metal hose to
that hot air tube stump. Run it through the rear firewall, up the
roofline, and down behind the rearview mirror. There, warmish air on the
dash. A longer hose will keep your feet toasty - in theory. :-)
I drove my VW Bugs with a 3M mask on and the windows open - until I hit
the Freeway, then I'd close the window (almost) all the way. This was a
perfect way to prevent the windshield from frosting up. Another helpful
trick was a metal school bus fan screwed onto the dash. <g
Mittens and snowmobile boots came off in March. Hat came off in April.
Good car in snow! Always started.
Montblack
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Good in the snow unless you had to turn a corner. |
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Jim Macklin Guest
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Posted: Wed Jun 07, 2006 6:11 am Post subject: Re: Dumb & Dumber |
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Place I worked was a Beech dealer with the FSDO right across
the street. The feds would rent our airplanes all the time
for training, transportation and currency. When ever they
wrote a squawk, the boss had it in the shop immediately, if
not faster.
One day two feds rented a Duchess and came back with a
squawk, encoder inop.
It was in avionics in about 5 minutes, in ten minutes the
avionics head came into the flight department and reported,
"encoder not installed.
Needless to say, an encoder was installed within the hour.
--
James H. Macklin
ATP,CFI,A&P
--
The people think the Constitution protects their rights;
But government sees it as an obstacle to be overcome.
some support
http://www.usdoj.gov/olc/secondamendment2.htm
See http://www.fija.org/ more about your rights and duties.
"Morgans" <jessmorgan (AT) cJhUaNrKter (DOT) net> wrote in message
news:IIqhg.122$rL4.31 (AT) fe03 (DOT) lga...
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| "Dave Stadt" <dhstadt (AT) ameritech (DOT) net> wrote
|
| > Even the Beetle offered one as an option. The standard
heater was a joke.
| > I spent a couple of winters in the late '60s with a
brand new Beetle with
| > the stock heater and after that I will never own a
Volkswagen product. We
| > used to open the windows in below zero temperatures to
warm up.
|
| I owned a 68 Corvair, while I still lived in Northern
Ohio, and it had a
| heater to die for! The difference is that the Corvair
used heat off of the
| cooling fins, and it would get so hot, if you left your
hand directly in
| front of the outlet for more than about 10 seconds, you
would scald your
| hand!
|
| The problem came with the push-rod O-ring seals. I (with
Dad) replaced them
| at the start of every winter, then you got no oil on the
fins, and thus, no
| CO. He made a tool to pull the tubes, and we could get
the job done in a
| hour or two.
|
| The Beetle I owned was in NC, and the heater was a joke,
but at least I
| didn't need it very much. The defroster was my big
complaint.
| --
| Jim in NC
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Bob Fry Guest
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Posted: Thu Jun 08, 2006 6:11 am Post subject: Re: Dumb & Dumber |
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| Quote: | "JH" == Jay Honeck <jjhoneck (AT) NOSPAMmchsi (DOT) com> writes:
JH> whilst her boyfriend sat all the while quite comfortably |
JH> strapped into his seat.
JH> her shorts
Damn, sounds like a fine girlfriend. |
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Dave Stadt Guest
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Posted: Fri Jun 09, 2006 6:11 am Post subject: Re: Dumb & Dumber |
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"Robert M. Gary" <N7093v (AT) gmail (DOT) com> wrote in message
news:1149809111.838139.284000 (AT) u72g2000cwu (DOT) googlegroups.com...
| Quote: | Piper may have changed their ways. As I recall the leading edge of the
J-3 stabalizer was a solid steal tube, perfect for pushing on (which is
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That is the absolute worst place to push. Most owners would excuse you from
the vicinity of their J3 forever if you tried such a dumb stunt.
| Quote: | not unusual when pulling taildraggers since you can't steer if you push
from the front of the aircraft). It also had a handle right under it to
help you.
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I have no problem steering my taildragger when pushing from the front.
> -Robert |
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Dave Stadt Guest
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Posted: Sat Jun 10, 2006 6:11 am Post subject: Re: Dumb & Dumber |
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"Robert M. Gary" <N7093v (AT) gmail (DOT) com> wrote in message
news:1149898921.701638.20740 (AT) m38g2000cwc (DOT) googlegroups.com...
| Quote: | So if you do not trust the A&P to tell you what part of the aircraft is
structurally sound enough what do you base your assertion on?
|
Haven't flown a lot of airplanes but the J3 is one in which I do have time.
I do learn the structure and method of assembly of each plane I fly.
| Quote: | Do you
completely disassemble every aircraft you fly and evaluate the
engineering design and structure of the entire aircraft yourself? Did
you require yourself to earn your structural engineernig degree before
working on your private? I'm still challenging your assertion that
trusting an A&P makes a pilot "dumb" and that only those of you
enlightened enough to have <something you have yet to share with us
are not "dumb".
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I tend to trust no single source including A&Ps. Never know if the one you
are talking to graduated first or last in the class. Some are outstanding
and some are simply wrench twisters and not very good at that.
| Quote: | -Robert
Dave Stadt wrote:
"Robert M. Gary" <N7093v (AT) gmail (DOT) com> wrote in message
news:1149872953.149516.42240 (AT) u72g2000cwu (DOT) googlegroups.com...
Look at the way that NOT solid 'steal' tube is attached to the airframe
and
common sense says hands off. If I believed everything mechanics told me
I
would have been killed at least 10 times.
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Margy Natalie Guest
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Posted: Thu Jun 15, 2006 5:50 am Post subject: Re: Dumb & Dumber |
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Javier wrote:
| Quote: | Gary Drescher wrote:
"Jay Honeck" <jjhoneck (AT) NOSPAMmchsi (DOT) com> wrote in message
news:Bafhg.19946$1i1.17134@attbi_s72...
Also, you must figure that the plane is 30+ years old. God knows how
many other times those attach points have been subjected to overload.
I cringe every time I think of it.
I wish planes (especially rental planes) had "Do not push here!"
stenciled on tempting but inappropriate places to push. That would be
as useful as many of the other placards.
I remember looking at the stickers on the control surfaces of a Yak at
SMO some years back.
They said "NO PUSHSKI"
As for the pair featured in Jay's posting, I gotta wonder:
What kind of guy sends The Girl to push the plane?
What kind of girl puts up with it?
-jav
I'd push the plane if I thought the other person had to use the rudder. |
I'm lucky, I'm a pilot too, so if it requires pushing and rudder I
usually get the rudder duty, but I would push.
Margy |
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