AirTalk.org Aviation discussions newsgroups   Archives   FAQ   Search   Memberlist   Usergroups   Register   Profile   Log in to check your private messages   Log in  Don't slow down too quickly!          AirTalk.org Forum Index -> Aviation (Students) View previous topic :: View next topic   Author Message Mark Hansen Guest Posted: Wed Feb 23, 2005 3:58 pm    Post subject: Don't slow down too quickly! Yesterday I took my wife up for another flight, touring the greater Sacramento Valley area. During one of the landings at a local 'practice' field, we were a bit high on final, so I dumped full flaps to slow us down and increase our descent rate. This, of course, gave the feeling of putting on the brakes. I knew this would cause some discomfort for her, so I mentioned how although it seems like we're going so slow when we're actually still going around 70 MPH, then began chit-chatting about landmarks around the approach-end of the runway, etc. (trying to take her mind off of it). I realize that I need to do a better job on my approaches to avoid any sudden changes an attitude and speed which might upset a passenger, but I learned a different lesson while out touring: We were flying at 3000' at full power (just for a time, to see how it felt) - I then said that I was going to slow us back down a bit, and reduced power to about 65%. She didn't say anything at the time, but later told me that the sensation of slowing caused a little apprehension, as it gave her the feeling that were were coming to a complete stop and would then just fall from the sky. I had never really thought about that before. I've certainly felt the dramatic slowing, but to me it's always felt rather like the end of a roller coaster ride when you hit the braking chain just before cruising into the off-loading area. I'll be more aware of that in the future. -- Mark Hansen, PP-ASEL Sacramento, CA Back to top David Wright Guest Posted: Wed Feb 23, 2005 4:06 pm    Post subject: Re: Don't slow down too quickly! Quote: She didn't say anything at the time, but later told me that the sensation of slowing caused a little apprehension, as it gave her the feeling that were were coming to a complete stop and would then just fall from the sky. I still get this feeling today - although more if I'm not PIC - I'm forever grabbing handholds, knees, my stomach when this happens :) I'm waiting for the whoosh as we go spiralling towards the earth! D. Back to top John Kirksey Guest Posted: Wed Feb 23, 2005 4:18 pm    Post subject: Re: Don't slow down too quickly! "David Wright" <david.wright (AT) open (DOT) ac.uk> wrote Quote: She didn't say anything at the time, but later told me that the sensation of slowing caused a little apprehension, as it gave her the feeling that were were coming to a complete stop and would then just fall from the sky. I still get this feeling today - although more if I'm not PIC - I'm forever grabbing handholds, knees, my stomach when this happens :) I'm waiting for the whoosh as we go spiralling towards the earth! D. I notice the same thing when I'm not flying, but I especially notice it when riding on an airliner. That abrupt transistion from level cruise to initial descent accompanied by the engines spooling down always gets my attention. John K. Student Pilot Back to top jsstevens@usa.net Guest Posted: Wed Feb 23, 2005 4:43 pm    Post subject: Re: Don't slow down too quickly! John Kirksey wrote: Quote: "David Wright" <david.wright (AT) open (DOT) ac.uk> wrote in message news:383nvgF5fckr8U1 (AT) individual (DOT) net... She didn't say anything at the time, but later told me that the sensation of slowing caused a little apprehension, as it gave her the feeling that were were coming to a complete stop and would then just fall from the sky. I still get this feeling today - although more if I'm not PIC - I'm forever grabbing handholds, knees, my stomach when this happens :) I'm waiting for the whoosh as we go spiralling towards the earth! D. I notice the same thing when I'm not flying, but I especially notice it when riding on an airliner. That abrupt transistion from level cruise to initial descent accompanied by the engines spooling down always gets my attention. John K. Student Pilot I was on an early morning flight from Phoenix to Houston one day. Most of us passengers were dozing as we cruised along. When the pilot throttled back to start the decent, he caused a compressor stall (several loud and impressive thumps) followed by the normal slowing sensation. Talk about a plane full of awake passengers - certainly everybody I could see was sitting straight up after this one, as was I. The pilot came on the intercom and, rahter sheepishly, explained. John S. Student Pilot (16.9 hours, .8 PIC) Back to top Mark Hansen Guest Posted: Wed Feb 23, 2005 4:54 pm    Post subject: Re: Don't slow down too quickly! On 2/23/2005 08:18, John Kirksey wrote: Quote: "David Wright" <david.wright (AT) open (DOT) ac.uk> wrote in message news:383nvgF5fckr8U1 (AT) individual (DOT) net... She didn't say anything at the time, but later told me that the sensation of slowing caused a little apprehension, as it gave her the feeling that were were coming to a complete stop and would then just fall from the sky. I still get this feeling today - although more if I'm not PIC - I'm forever grabbing handholds, knees, my stomach when this happens :) I'm waiting for the whoosh as we go spiralling towards the earth! D. I notice the same thing when I'm not flying, but I especially notice it when riding on an airliner. That abrupt transistion from level cruise to initial descent accompanied by the engines spooling down always gets my attention. John K. Student Pilot It's been a while since I've been on an airliner, but I always enjoyed that part. Perhaps I'm just weird that way... -- Mark Hansen, PP-ASEL Sacramento, CA Back to top Cary Mariash Guest Posted: Wed Feb 23, 2005 10:15 pm    Post subject: Re: Don't slow down too quickly! Mark, Let me make a polite suggestion. Whenever you have a passenger in the plane, you should try to make all turns as shallow as possible (but be safe), all changes in attitude and altitude as slow as possible (but be safe), and all maneuvers as slow and smooth as possible. Passengers really appreciate ride that is a "non-event". There is nothing worse than having someone feel uncomfortable (or even get sick) when they were not expecting this to happen. While most people will not be upset by sudden changes, you can never really predict who will get upset. Because I did not learn this lesson early in my private pilot days, my family will not fly with me any more. Cary CP-ASMEL/IA In article <111pa1pf1i0vea2 (AT) corp (DOT) supernews.com>, Mark Hansen <meh (AT) NOSPAMunify (DOT) com> wrote: Quote: Yesterday I took my wife up for another flight, touring the greater Sacramento Valley area. During one of the landings at a local 'practice' field, we were a bit high on final, so I dumped full flaps to slow us down and increase our descent rate. This, of course, gave the feeling of putting on the brakes. I knew this would cause some discomfort for her, so I mentioned how although it seems like we're going so slow when we're actually still going around 70 MPH, then began chit-chatting about landmarks around the approach-end of the runway, etc. (trying to take her mind off of it). I realize that I need to do a better job on my approaches to avoid any sudden changes an attitude and speed which might upset a passenger, but I learned a different lesson while out touring: We were flying at 3000' at full power (just for a time, to see how it felt) - I then said that I was going to slow us back down a bit, and reduced power to about 65%. She didn't say anything at the time, but later told me that the sensation of slowing caused a little apprehension, as it gave her the feeling that were were coming to a complete stop and would then just fall from the sky. I had never really thought about that before. I've certainly felt the dramatic slowing, but to me it's always felt rather like the end of a roller coaster ride when you hit the braking chain just before cruising into the off-loading area. I'll be more aware of that in the future. Back to top Mark Hansen Guest Posted: Wed Feb 23, 2005 10:33 pm    Post subject: Re: Don't slow down too quickly! On 2/23/2005 14:15, Cary Mariash wrote: Quote: Mark, Let me make a polite suggestion. Whenever you have a passenger in the plane, you should try to make all turns as shallow as possible (but be safe), all changes in attitude and altitude as slow as possible (but be safe), and all maneuvers as slow and smooth as possible. Passengers really appreciate ride that is a "non-event". There is nothing worse than having someone feel uncomfortable (or even get sick) when they were not expecting this to happen. While most people will not be upset by sudden changes, you can never really predict who will get upset. Because I did not learn this lesson early in my private pilot days, my family will not fly with me any more. Cary CP-ASMEL/IA Thanks, Cary. That's pretty much how I take it. -- Mark Hansen, PP-ASEL Sacramento, CA Back to top A Lieberman Guest Posted: Wed Feb 23, 2005 11:18 pm    Post subject: Re: Don't slow down too quickly! On Wed, 23 Feb 2005 07:58:48 -0800, Mark Hansen wrote: Quote: We were flying at 3000' at full power (just for a time, to see how it felt) - I then said that I was going to slow us back down a bit, and reduced power to about 65%. She didn't say anything at the time, but later told me that the sensation of slowing caused a little apprehension, as it gave her the feeling that were were coming to a complete stop and would then just fall from the sky. Hey Mark, Good post. One other thought about your wife, that maybe may have added to her apprehension was the "sudden" noise level change. Some passengers associate a quieter engine with "oh my we are going to fall out of the sky" syndrome. You may want to ask her if she realized the sound difference may have added to her stress level. I would bet it was the silence in combination with the slowing down that added to her anxiety level. As you had learned, you may want to keep the "how it feels" for your solo days and keep pitch and power on an even keel for passengers. I try to explain before descent that things will get much quieter when we get closer to the airport, and I had one passenger that simply could not understand why we didn't fall out of the sky. I had to keep directing her attention to our speed so she could see, that even though we were descending, we were going just about the same speed. I had to relate to her we were just like in a car, "coasting downhill" which help ease her anxiety level, but not by much. Allen Back to top Mark Hansen Guest Posted: Wed Feb 23, 2005 11:44 pm    Post subject: Re: Don't slow down too quickly! On 2/23/2005 15:18, A Lieberman wrote: Quote: On Wed, 23 Feb 2005 07:58:48 -0800, Mark Hansen wrote: We were flying at 3000' at full power (just for a time, to see how it felt) - I then said that I was going to slow us back down a bit, and reduced power to about 65%. She didn't say anything at the time, but later told me that the sensation of slowing caused a little apprehension, as it gave her the feeling that were were coming to a complete stop and would then just fall from the sky. Hey Mark, Good post. One other thought about your wife, that maybe may have added to her apprehension was the "sudden" noise level change. Some passengers associate a quieter engine with "oh my we are going to fall out of the sky" syndrome. You may want to ask her if she realized the sound difference may have added to her stress level. That's a good point. When I throttled back, I mentioned how much quieter it was, so that may have made it easier for her. I'll have to ask. Quote: I would bet it was the silence in combination with the slowing down that added to her anxiety level. You may be right. Quote: As you had learned, you may want to keep the "how it feels" for your solo days and keep pitch and power on an even keel for passengers. I try to explain before descent that things will get much quieter when we get closer to the airport, and I had one passenger that simply could not understand why we didn't fall out of the sky. I had to keep directing her attention to our speed so she could see, that even though we were descending, we were going just about the same speed. I had to relate to her we were just like in a car, "coasting downhill" which help ease her anxiety level, but not by much. That's a good point too. Neither of may passengers have mentioned any issues with the sound, but I'm going to place this in my flight bag for future trips. Clearly, the more they know about what is going on, the easier it is on them. Sometimes I think we just forget that a sensation may be new to them, since we've been through it so many times already. Quote: Allen Thanks for the insights, Allen. -- Mark Hansen, PP-ASEL Sacramento, CA Back to top CryptWolf Guest Posted: Thu Feb 24, 2005 12:21 am    Post subject: Re: Don't slow down too quickly! "Mark Hansen" <meh (AT) NOSPAMunify (DOT) com> wrote in message Quote: news:111pa1pf1i0vea2 (AT) corp (DOT) supernews.com... Yesterday I took my wife up for another flight, touring the greater Sacramento Valley area. We were flying at 3000' at full power (just for a time, to see how it felt) - I then said that I was going to slow us back down a bit, and reduced power to about 65%. She didn't say anything at the time, but later told me that the sensation of slowing caused a little apprehension, as it gave her the feeling that were were coming to a complete stop and would then just fall from the sky. I had never really thought about that before. I've certainly felt the dramatic slowing, but to me it's always felt rather like the end of a roller coaster ride when you hit the braking chain just before cruising into the off-loading area. I'll be more aware of that in the future. It sounds like your wife is experiencing some of the illusions that can be generated by accelerating, decelerating climbing etc. Explain how the inner ear works and what is happening there. She may be surprised to learn that her body is sending false signals to her brain. You are less prone to notice it since you have flown a lot more than she has and are used to how it feels. You probably even expect it to feel that way. People in general are afraid of the unknown. Explain everything and they have a lot less to be afraid of. Use books and other reliable sources if anyone has any doubts or questions that you can't handle. Hopefully you can catch the majority of the problems before you get them in the air. Back to top Marlbra Guest Posted: Thu Feb 24, 2005 7:47 am    Post subject: Re: Don't slow down too quickly! Hi Mark.... as a *VERY* new student, I can relate to how your wife felt, totally.... remeber for those (of us) that have not logged a lot of hours, its still kind of hard to realte to the fact of HOW FAST a plane actually flies, esp at any altitude, you know how to "feel" speed I guess after a while by checking the ASI, but at alt there is little feeling of speed so the engine is really our only guide, a screaming engine feels like you are going fast, a near idling engine coudl not possibly still be maitaining height, so therefore plane "must' be plummiting....or so it seems, hope that made sense Marlbra On Wed, 23 Feb 2005 07:58:48 -0800, Mark Hansen <meh (AT) NOSPAMunify (DOT) com> wrote: Quote: Yesterday I took my wife up for another flight, touring the greater Sacramento Valley area. During one of the landings at a local 'practice' field, we were a bit high on final, so I dumped full flaps to slow us down and increase our descent rate. This, of course, gave the feeling of putting on the brakes. I knew this would cause some discomfort for her, so I mentioned how although it seems like we're going so slow when we're actually still going around 70 MPH, then began chit-chatting about landmarks around the approach-end of the runway, etc. (trying to take her mind off of it). I realize that I need to do a better job on my approaches to avoid any sudden changes an attitude and speed which might upset a passenger, but I learned a different lesson while out touring: We were flying at 3000' at full power (just for a time, to see how it felt) - I then said that I was going to slow us back down a bit, and reduced power to about 65%. She didn't say anything at the time, but later told me that the sensation of slowing caused a little apprehension, as it gave her the feeling that were were coming to a complete stop and would then just fall from the sky. I had never really thought about that before. I've certainly felt the dramatic slowing, but to me it's always felt rather like the end of a roller coaster ride when you hit the braking chain just before cruising into the off-loading area. I'll be more aware of that in the future. Back to top Corky Scott Guest Posted: Tue Mar 01, 2005 8:01 pm    Post subject: Re: Don't slow down too quickly! On Wed, 23 Feb 2005 07:58:48 -0800, Mark Hansen <meh (AT) NOSPAMunify (DOT) com> wrote: Quote: She didn't say anything at the time, but later told me that the sensation of slowing caused a little apprehension, as it gave her the feeling that were were coming to a complete stop and would then just fall from the sky. When I had my sister up for a flight last summer, we ended up being directed to land straight in by the tower. By the time I had the C172 lined up and slowed down, we were gently approaching at about 65 knots or so. The airfield did not seem to be getting closer very quickly and her comment was "it's like floating in a bubble". Corky Scott Back to top Mark Hansen Guest Posted: Tue Mar 01, 2005 9:17 pm    Post subject: Re: Don't slow down too quickly! On 3/1/2005 12:01, Corky Scott wrote: Quote: On Wed, 23 Feb 2005 07:58:48 -0800, Mark Hansen wrote: She didn't say anything at the time, but later told me that the sensation of slowing caused a little apprehension, as it gave her the feeling that were were coming to a complete stop and would then just fall from the sky. When I had my sister up for a flight last summer, we ended up being directed to land straight in by the tower. By the time I had the C172 lined up and slowed down, we were gently approaching at about 65 knots or so. The airfield did not seem to be getting closer very quickly and her comment was "it's like floating in a bubble". I think if that happens to me, I'll just show my passenger the trick I use to make sure I'm on the correct glide slope (watching the position of the touchdown point in the windshield) - as well as explain that although it looks like we not moving much, we're still going X MPH and descending at Y FPM. I have another first-time flyer tomorrow - my field's wife. After he told her about his flight, she can't wait to go ;-) Should be fun! Quote: Corky Scott -- Mark Hansen, PP-ASEL Sacramento, CA Back to top Dan Girellini Guest Posted: Tue Mar 01, 2005 9:25 pm    Post subject: Re: Don't slow down too quickly! Mark Hansen <meh (AT) NOSPAMunify (DOT) com> writes: Quote: I have another first-time flyer tomorrow - my field's wife. After he told her about his flight, she can't wait to go I guess this is break-down of the traditional family the Christian right is concerned about...first we allow gays to marry, then parcels of land...what next? Dan. Back to top Montblack Guest Posted: Tue Mar 01, 2005 9:44 pm    Post subject: Re: Don't slow down too quickly! ("Dan Girellini" wrote) Quote: I have another first-time flyer tomorrow - my field's wife. After he told her about his flight, she can't wait to go ;-) I guess this is break-down of the traditional family the Christian right is concerned about...first we allow gays to marry, then parcels of land...what next? Was he speaking as a passenger or the runway? 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