AirTalk.org Aviation discussions newsgroups   Archives   FAQ   Search   Memberlist   Usergroups   Register   Profile   Log in to check your private messages   Log in  control/performance method of instrument flying          AirTalk.org Forum Index -> Aviators (General Discussions) View previous topic :: View next topic   Author Message Bob Gardner Guest Posted: Mon Nov 24, 2003 10:58 pm    Post subject: Re: control/performance method of instrument flying My guess, and it is a guess, that virtually all instrument pilots have been taught both control/performance and primary/secondary, because in real life we use a combination of both. Most, if not all, military pilots learned the c/p method. The index for my copy of the Air Force Instrument Flying Manual does not even contain an entry for primary/secondary. Bob Gardner "Tony Woolner" <tonyppl (AT) bestweb (DOT) net> wrote Quote: Has anyone out there been taught this method of instrument flying? Back to top Jim Guest Posted: Mon Nov 24, 2003 11:44 pm    Post subject: Re: control/performance method of instrument flying I'll agree. My experience and the way I am teaching is that primary/secondary is mainly used enroute and maneuvering but when climbs and descents are needed that control/performance is mainly used, for example approach power settings. I think instrument flying is a combination of both, using the method required for the immediate task. As Bob says, the military almost exclusively uses control/performance but their equipment is larger and faster and their instruments are more exact, i.e. larger AI, angle of attack indicator, more accurate airspeed indicator. -- Jim Burns III [email]jburns3 (AT) nospamuniontel (DOT) net[/email] Remove "nospam" to reply "Bob Gardner" <bobmrg (AT) comcast (DOT) net> wrote Quote: My guess, and it is a guess, that virtually all instrument pilots have been taught both control/performance and primary/secondary, because in real life we use a combination of both. Most, if not all, military pilots learned the c/p method. The index for my copy of the Air Force Instrument Flying Manual does not even contain an entry for primary/secondary. Bob Gardner "Tony Woolner" <tonyppl (AT) bestweb (DOT) net> wrote in message news:3FC3292A.DFDFB278 (AT) bestweb (DOT) net... Has anyone out there been taught this method of instrument flying? Back to top Greg Esres Guest Posted: Tue Nov 25, 2003 5:24 am    Post subject: Re: control/performance method of instrument flying < I do. Primary/Supporting is ridiculously complicated. PIC 10-day instrument courses do control/performance. Bill Kershner is also on record as endorsing this method. I'm inclined to think that most forward-thinking CFI's will teach this method. In other words, only a minority do. ;-) Like the others, I'm skeptical that anyone's real world scan closely resembles either theory. Back to top Teacherjh Guest Posted: Tue Nov 25, 2003 6:36 am    Post subject: Re: control/performance method of instrument flying What is "control performance" in the context of an instrument scan? I don't know if I've been taught one or the other, I am familiar with primary secondary but originally was taught something else. Jose -- (for Email, make the obvious changes in my address) Back to top Tony Woolner Guest Posted: Tue Nov 25, 2003 10:04 am    Post subject: control/performance method of instrument flying Has anyone out there been taught this method of instrument flying? Back to top Robert Moore Guest Posted: Tue Nov 25, 2003 2:53 pm    Post subject: Re: control/performance method of instrument flying [email]teacherjh (AT) aol (DOT) comspam.not[/email] (Teacherjh) wrote Quote: What is "control performance" in the context of an instrument scan? I don't know if I've been taught one or the other, I am familiar with primary secondary but originally was taught something else. In Kershner's Flight Instructor's Manual, he calls it "Attitude plus Power equals Performance". I have always used the phrase "Pitch plus Power equals Performance", the 3P's. In either case, it is the military and airline method of flying by instruments. It involves knowing (ahead of time) what combination of pitch and power will cause the airplane to do what you want it to do. For example, in climbing, set climb power and set the pitch attitude to five degrees nose up...don't bother with the airspeed indicator, IT WILL settle on the correct airspeed. No chasing the airspeed as would occur in the "primary/secondary" method. Remember the "watching the airspeed during the landing approach" thread of a few days ago? Pitch + Power is equally applicable there. In a Cessna 172, if one flys downwind at about 2100rpm, (100kts) and abeam the touchdown spot, sets 1500rpm/flaps 10 and the appropriate VISUAL pitch down attitude and maintains that same combination of pitch+power while using flaps 20 on base and flaps 30 on final, there is no need to ever look at the airspeed indicator because you WILL cross the end of the runway at 60-65 kts. It sure beats the old "I'm slow, let me add some power....whoops now I'm fast, let's pull some of that power off" routine, which is what many of the pilots that I do IPCs and Flight Reviews for are doing. Bob Moore Back to top Teacherjh Guest Posted: Tue Nov 25, 2003 4:32 pm    Post subject: Re: control/performance method of instrument flying Quote: "control performance" It involves knowing (ahead of time) what combination of pitch and power will cause the airplane to do what you want it to do. Ok. That's the way I was taught at first. I think it's better. But you do need more than that to deal with other circumstances. Jose -- (for Email, make the obvious changes in my address) Back to top Display posts from previous: All Posts1 Day7 Days2 Weeks1 Month3 Months6 Months1 Year Oldest FirstNewest First         AirTalk.org Forum Index -> Aviators (General Discussions) All times are GMT Page 1 of 1   Jump to: Select a forum Aviation----------------alt.aviationAviation safety EnhancementPlanes, gliders and flying in AustraliaAviation et pilotage (Français)rec.aviationAviation (Aerobatics)Hot air, gas balloons and airshipsHang-gliding, paragliding, foot-launched flightAircraft Design & BuildingInstrument Flight RulesAviation (Classifieds)Military AircraftNaval AviationAviation (Miscellaneous Topics)Owning AirplanesAviators (General Discussions)Aviation related productsAircraft RestorationHelicopters and rotary wing aircraftsFlight SimulationSailplanesAviation (Students)Light aircraftFlying related activities in the UK Airports----------------alt.airportsEdinburgh Airport Glasgow Airport Humberside Airport Luton Airport Aberdeen Airport Glasgow Prestwick Airport  You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2006 phpBB Group SEO toolkit © 2004-2006 webmedic.