AirTalk.org Aviation discussions newsgroups   Archives   FAQ   Search   Memberlist   Usergroups   Register   Profile   Log in to check your private messages   Log in  Contacting ATC components and doing runups at controlled air          AirTalk.org Forum Index -> Aviation (Students) View previous topic :: View next topic   Author Message A Lieberman Guest Posted: Tue Aug 19, 2003 1:28 am    Post subject: Contacting ATC components and doing runups at controlled air EL wrote: Quote: So what do you all do? Is this a practice that varies by regions? Or maybe the instructor on TV was just trying to make it easier on the student, and they'd change to doing readbacks as training progresses? I was tought to read back all instructions. The last time, it went like this on my last trip from JAN (Jackson MS) to MBO (Madison MS), a whopping 8 NM.. Me -- Ground, Sundowner 12345L ready to taxi at Mercury air, with information November, headed to Madison Bruce Cambell, altitude your discretion. Ground -- Sundowner 12345L altimeter 2999, sqawk 0103, maintain at or below 2000 feet, contact tower at 120.90, taxi to and hold short 16L. Me -- Sundowner 12345, altimeter 2999, sqawking 0103, maintain 2000 or below, will hold short 16L, contact tower at 120.90. Ground -- Sundowner 12345 readback correct. I taxi to 16L do my runup. Me Tower, Sundowner 12345L ready for departure. Tower Sundowner 12345L hold short 16L for landing traffic. Me Sundowner 12345L holding short for landing traffic. Tower Sundowner 12345L Position and hold 16L Me Sundowner 12345L Positioning and holding 16L. I taxi on 16L and hold. Tower Sundowner left turnout and report Madison in sight. Me Sundowner Cleared for departure, left turnout, report Madison in sight. Tower Sundowner, cleared for departure, thank you. I depart. By me reading back, I got the tower to assure that I was cleared for departure. I did not move until I heard those magic words "cleared for departure". I find the folks at JAN great to work with, as I surely don't want to mess up myself and I am sure the ATC folks want to be sure I understand the directions. I really have not found that confort zone for myself for WHEN to contact the appropriate component. I do the following, hopefully someone will correct me if my "timing" is off. On arrivals: I contact approach 20 nm from the airport if I don't have flight following. With flight following, usually the hand off is seamless. Approach hands me off to Tower, and at this point, I contact tower with statement Tower, Sundowner 12345L inbound for full stop landing at such and such FBO. (I usually state I have information XX on atis). Tower clears me to land, and then hands me off to ground. I then contact ground AFTER clearing the runway. I am not sure as to whether I should stop and clear with ground before moving, or clear the runway and continue to taxi and talk to ground. If I am unfamiliar with the airport, I ask for progressives, if I am familiar, I verify my own taxi directions with ground by saying Ground, would like to verify taxi directions to Mercury air by going from Alpha, turn right on Bravo, and another right turn on Charlie. I'd rather double check this way then think I know what I am doing and turn the wrong way. On departures: No problems contacting ground, though, the FBO doesn't like a turning prop in their ramp (understandable), and wants you moved quickly. I don't like moving into the "movement areas" without contacting ground, but sometimes it seems that I have no choice, but to cross the line and then contact ground. After talking with ground, I then taxi to the end of the taxiway, do my runup, and then contact tower for when I ready for departure. Though never tought, where is the proper place to do a runup at a controlled airport? At JAN, I never really had a line of planes behind me, but is it proper to do the runup at the end of the taxiway just before departure? (naturally, keeping the prop blast out of the taxiway). Sometimes while taxing, I do the control checks on the wings, verify my flight and engine instruments to save some time at the end of the taxiway and check mags and carb heat at the end of the taxiway. Or does one find an open area near the FBO to runup. Allen Back to top Ron Natalie Guest Posted: Tue Aug 19, 2003 3:30 pm    Post subject: Re: Contacting ATC components and doing runups at controlled "A Lieberman" <lieberma (AT) myself (DOT) com> wrote Quote: I was tought to read back all instructions. The last time, it went like this on my last trip from JAN (Jackson MS) to MBO (Madison MS), a whopping 8 NM.. Other than being excessively verbose this is fine. Quote: Ground -- Sundowner 12345L altimeter 2999, sqawk 0103, maintain at or below 2000 feet, contact tower at 120.90, taxi to and hold short 16L. Taxi to and hold short? What kind of instruction is this? Quote: Tower Sundowner 12345L Position and hold 16L TAXI into position and hold. Quote: Tower Sundowner left turnout and report Madison in sight. Are we still on the ground here? Quote: Me Sundowner Cleared for departure, left turnout, report Madison in sight. Tower Sundowner, cleared for departure, thank you. The word (if you are still on the ground) is CLEARED FOR TAKEOFF. (and in this case assuming there is more than one active) RUNWAY 16 LEFT CLEARED FOR TAKEOFF. Quote: By me reading back, I got the tower to assure that I was cleared for departure. I did not move until I heard those magic words "cleared for departure". Correct, you're not cleared for depart based on whatever gobledy gook the controller said. Back to top Steven P. McNicoll Guest Posted: Tue Aug 19, 2003 4:29 pm    Post subject: Re: Contacting ATC components and doing runups at controlled "Ron Natalie" <ron (AT) sensor (DOT) com> wrote Quote: Taxi to and hold short? What kind of instruction is this? Redundant. Quote: TAXI into position and hold. This was changed a few months ago, "position and hold" is correct. Back to top Steve House Guest Posted: Fri Aug 22, 2003 12:43 pm    Post subject: Re: Contacting ATC components and doing runups at controlled "A Lieberman" <lieberma (AT) myself (DOT) com> wrote Quote: ... Approach hands me off to Tower, and at this point, I contact tower with statement Tower, Sundowner 12345L inbound for full stop landing at such and such FBO. (I usually state I have information XX on atis). Tower clears me to land, and then hands me off to ground. I then contact ground AFTER clearing the runway. I am not sure as to whether I should stop and clear with ground before moving, or clear the runway and continue to taxi and talk to ground. For what its worth, my instructor has me clear the runway and stop on the taxiway just after crossing the hold line before contacting ground for taxi instructions. Back to top Roy Smith Guest Posted: Fri Aug 22, 2003 1:11 pm    Post subject: Re: Contacting ATC components and doing runups at controlled "Steve House" <sjhouse.remove.this (AT) to (DOT) send.hotmail.com> wrote: Quote: For what its worth, my instructor has me clear the runway and stop on the taxiway just after crossing the hold line before contacting ground for taxi instructions. That is the corrrect procedure. You should not move any further than it takes to make sure that you're clear of the hold-short line before getting taxi clearance from the ground controller. If the airport is not busy, one controller may be working both tower and ground. In that case, you might hear the tower controller say something like, "taxi to the ramp with me" or "taxi to [wherever] on this frequency", which means you've got taxi clearance and you should just stay on the tower frequency. Back to top Ron Natalie Guest Posted: Fri Aug 22, 2003 3:29 pm    Post subject: Re: Contacting ATC components and doing runups at controlled "Steve House" <sjhouse.remove.this (AT) to (DOT) send.hotmail.com> wrote Quote: I am not sure as to whether I should stop and clear with ground before moving, or clear the runway and continue to taxi and talk to ground. For what its worth, my instructor has me clear the runway and stop on the taxiway just after crossing the hold line before contacting ground for taxi instructions. The AIM (and common sense) says the first thing you should do (unless told otherwise by the tower) is to exit the runway at the first practical taxiway and get beyond the hold short line. You don't want to go any furhter than nescessary to clear the runway until instructed. 4-3-20 of the AIM: EXITING THE RUNWAY AFTER LANDING. 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