AirTalk.org Aviation discussions newsgroups   Archives   FAQ   Search   Memberlist   Usergroups   Register   Profile   Log in to check your private messages   Log in  Comparing aircraft rentals and training costs.          AirTalk.org Forum Index -> Aviation (Students) View previous topic :: View next topic   Author Message Vishvas Vasuki Guest Posted: Thu May 10, 2007 8:34 pm    Post subject: Comparing aircraft rentals and training costs. Hi guys, I am trying to decide where to rent the plane from for pilot training. But, being the archetypal pauper grad student, I needed your opinion (and reasons) on which would be the cheaper option: Our university's flying club: Cessna 152 (1978) at 30$/ hr (measured by hobb's meter) Piper Warrior II PA-28-161 (1979) with a new engine at 35$/hr fuel charges extra. instructor charges extra. (I can engage any instructor I choose.) Membership costs: (I become the co-owner of the planes, as long as I am a member.) One time initiation fee of $300 Monthly membership fee is $35 ---------- Another flying club near-by: Instructor charges (dual flying and ground training): 50$/hr Discounted rental rates include fuel and oil. Cessna 152 (1983) Rate: $79.00/hr Piper PA28-161 Warrior II (1983) Rate: $89.00/hr As I have no clue about the hourly flight-training-fuel-costs and instructor charges if I were to use the university's flying club, I cannot compare the prices directly using arithmetic. Can someone give me an estimate on these costs too, please? Also, how much time might I need to spend reading books to pass the examination? Sincerely, Vishvas Vasuki Back to top Guest Posted: Thu May 10, 2007 9:27 pm    Post subject: Re: Comparing aircraft rentals and training costs. Quote: I am trying to decide where to rent the plane from for pilot training. But, being the archetypal pauper grad student, I needed your opinion (and reasons) on which would be the cheaper option: Our university's flying club: Cessna 152 (1978) at 30$/ hr (measured by hobb's meter) Piper Warrior II PA-28-161 (1979) with a new engine at 35$/hr fuel charges extra. instructor charges extra. (I can engage any instructor I choose.) Membership costs: (I become the co-owner of the planes, as long as I am a member.) One time initiation fee of $300 Monthly membership fee is $35 ---------- Another flying club near-by: Instructor charges (dual flying and ground training): 50$/hr Discounted rental rates include fuel and oil. Cessna 152 (1983) Rate: $79.00/hr Piper PA28-161 Warrior II (1983) Rate: $89.00/hr As I have no clue about the hourly flight-training-fuel-costs and instructor charges if I were to use the university's flying club, I cannot compare the prices directly using arithmetic. Can someone give me an estimate on these costs too, please? Also, how much time might I need to spend reading books to pass the examination? Sincerely, Vishvas Vasuki Fuel Figure $4/gallon and 8Gal/hr. Total of $32/hour for fuel about $30/hr for and Instructor. It looks like if you figure $100/hr for the university flight option you would be real close. The flying club you mention hase an expensive instructor, IMHO. I would say that option #1 is the less expensive of the two... -- Mike Flyin'8 PP-ASEL Temecula, CA http://flying.4alexanders.com Back to top Vishvas Vasuki Guest Posted: Thu May 10, 2007 9:49 pm    Post subject: Re: Comparing aircraft rentals and training costs. Quote: Also, how much time might I need to spend reading books to pass the examination? Sincerely, Vishvas Vasuki Fuel Figure $4/gallon and 8Gal/hr. Total of $32/hour for fuel about $30/hr for and Instructor. It looks like if you figure $100/hr for the university flight option you would be real close. The flying club you mention hase an expensive instructor, IMHO. I would say that option #1 is the less expensive of the two... Thanks! Based on the figures you quoted, I did the math, and I agree that the university club is a better investment. Even if I factor in membership fees for six months and the initiation fee at the university club, the hourly cost at the two clubs seem to be $105 and $129 respectively. It seems to come from the difference in the rental costs and the instructor costs. -Vishvas Back to top Mark Hansen Guest Posted: Thu May 10, 2007 9:55 pm    Post subject: Re: Comparing aircraft rentals and training costs. On 05/10/07 09:49, Vishvas Vasuki wrote: Quote: Also, how much time might I need to spend reading books to pass the examination? Sincerely, Vishvas Vasuki Fuel Figure $4/gallon and 8Gal/hr. Total of $32/hour for fuel about $30/hr for and Instructor. It looks like if you figure $100/hr for the university flight option you would be real close. The flying club you mention hase an expensive instructor, IMHO. I would say that option #1 is the less expensive of the two... Thanks! Based on the figures you quoted, I did the math, and I agree that the university club is a better investment. Even if I factor in membership fees for six months and the initiation fee at the university club, the hourly cost at the two clubs seem to be $105 and $129 respectively. It seems to come from the difference in the rental costs and the instructor costs. -Vishvas Does either option provide any insurance for you? If you are a part owner in the plane, make sure you are listed as a 'named insured' on the insurance policy (or that the policy includes a 'no subrogation' clause). This will help prevent the insurance company from coming after you in the event they pay the club for a claim. Will you be responsible for any deductibles in either case? -- Mark Hansen, PP-ASEL, Instrument Airplane, USUA Ultralight Pilot Cal Aggie Flying Farmers Sacramento, CA Back to top Sylvain Guest Posted: Thu May 10, 2007 10:23 pm    Post subject: Re: Comparing aircraft rentals and training costs. Vishvas Vasuki wrote: Quote: As I have no clue about the hourly flight-training-fuel-costs and instructor charges if I were to use the university's flying club, I cannot compare the prices directly using arithmetic. in addition to the good points made by the other contributors, a couple of things to consider: - how many aircraft each places has, and how is maintenance done? if you have to cancel lesson after lesson because the one and only trainer that you can fly is unavailable, you'll find that your training is going to take a lot more time and $$$ to complete; - have you talked with the instructors? one good instructor with whom you get along and who is efficient -- and available!.. same issue as above -- can make a much bigger difference in the overall cost of your training than just the rental rate... - what are the policies of these two places regarding renting aircraft for several days, what kind of more advanced aircraft do they offer? you won't be a student for ever, and will eventually want to progress to faster, fancier machines and undertake more ambitious flights; can the club/fbo you are considering make this possible or will you have to find another place (where you'll have to spend some time being checked out -- which can take a while for newly minted pilots) --Sylvain Back to top Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe Guest Posted: Fri May 11, 2007 3:32 am    Post subject: Re: Comparing aircraft rentals and training costs. "Vishvas Vasuki" <vishvas (AT) nospam (DOT) gmail.com> wrote in message news:pan.2007.05.10.15.34.56.736350 (AT) nospam (DOT) gmail.com... Quote: Hi guys, I am trying to decide where to rent the plane from for pilot training. But, being the archetypal pauper grad student, I needed your opinion (and reasons) on which would be the cheaper option: If things really are tight, you might look and see if there is a local glider club - you can often get your ticket and fly for quite a bit less. Later on, when you get steady employment you can add on the power ratings (assuming you still want to). -- Geoff The Sea Hawk at Wow Way d0t Com remove spaces and make the obvious substitutions to reply by mail When immigration is outlawed, only outlaws will immigrate. Back to top Vaughn Simon Guest Posted: Fri May 11, 2007 5:59 am    Post subject: Re: Comparing aircraft rentals and training costs. "Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe" <The Sea Hawk at wow way d0t com> wrote in message news:u6mdnTJsXM75AN7bnZ2dnUVZ_jqdnZ2d (AT) wideopenwest (DOT) com... Quote: If things really are tight, you might look and see if there is a local glider club - you can often get your ticket and fly for quite a bit less. Later on, when you get steady employment you can add on the power ratings (assuming you still want to). Ab-initio glider training can be pricey unless the club has a winch (rare in the USA). Early glider training is just like any other flight training in that lots of launches and landings are involved. The glider itself can be relativly cheap per hour, and the instructer expense ranges from volunteer to a "normal" price, but it is the aero tows that can really hit you in the pocketbook. If you are in a good soaring area, time building can be cheap once you start soloing and get the hang of soaring. Vaughn (CFIG) Back to top Neil Gould Guest Posted: Fri May 11, 2007 4:11 pm    Post subject: Re: Comparing aircraft rentals and training costs. Recently, Vishvas Vasuki <vishvas (AT) nospam (DOT) gmail.com> posted: Quote: Hi, Does either option provide any insurance for you? If you are a part owner in the plane, make sure you are listed as a 'named insured' on the insurance policy (or that the policy includes a 'no subrogation' clause). This will help prevent the insurance company from coming after you in the event they pay the club for a claim. Will you be responsible for any deductibles in either case? Thanks for the insurance warnings. I will check them out. The university club web-page says, "As a member of the CFC, you will become an equal owner of our aircraft. All aircraft are maintained to the highest standards and we carry excellent insurance." But the university club's constitution has this to say: "Section B - Financial Responsibility 1. A flying member operating a Club airplane shall be totally responsible for any damage occurring while the airplane is in his/her custody. 2. A flying member's responsibility shall begin when the airplane is untied or accepted from another member, and continued until it is tied down or turned over to another member. 3. If damage should result from a mechanical defect or other factor beyond the control of the member concerned, the flying members may elect, by majority vote, to share or absorb completely the resulting cost, depending on the circumstances of the individual case." I'm hard pressed to see any advantage to this insurance coverage, and would consider it a requirement to carry your own insurance. Factor in that, and the costs come closer to or exceed that of the other flying school, depending on the number of hours that you fly. Quote: But I have not yet found insurance information at the other flying school (Northampton Airport) online. That may be an important difference. If their coverage is no better than the university's, that will also imply that you obtain your own insurance. Regards, Neil Back to top Mark Hansen Guest Posted: Fri May 11, 2007 7:52 pm    Post subject: Re: Comparing aircraft rentals and training costs. On 05/10/07 21:23, Vishvas Vasuki wrote: Quote: Hi, Does either option provide any insurance for you? If you are a part owner in the plane, make sure you are listed as a 'named insured' on the insurance policy (or that the policy includes a 'no subrogation' clause). This will help prevent the insurance company from coming after you in the event they pay the club for a claim. Will you be responsible for any deductibles in either case? Thanks for the insurance warnings. I will check them out. The university club web-page says, "As a member of the CFC, you will become an equal owner of our aircraft. All aircraft are maintained to the highest standards and we carry excellent insurance." But the university club's constitution has this to say: "Section B - Financial Responsibility 1. A flying member operating a Club airplane shall be totally responsible for any damage occurring while the airplane is in his/her custody. 2. A flying member's responsibility shall begin when the airplane is untied or accepted from another member, and continued until it is tied down or turned over to another member. 3. If damage should result from a mechanical defect or other factor beyond the control of the member concerned, the flying members may elect, by majority vote, to share or absorb completely the resulting cost, depending on the circumstances of the individual case." Well, this certainly makes it sound like the club's insurance policy does not cover you. You may want to consider getting your own insurance. Just beware that the cost of hull coverage for renter pilots is not cheap. Also, if the club tells you that their insurance will cover the airplane, and they will only need you to cover the deductible, keep in mind that the club's insurance company can still come after you for the full amount of the claim, unless the policy has a no subrogation or similar clause. The main driving force behind joining the club I did was that they include each member as a 'named insured' on the policy, so the insurance company can't come after us for recovery. The club even covers the deductible. When I weighed the $20/month club dues against what it would cost me to carry that much renter's insurance, it was a no-brainer. Quote: But I have not yet found insurance information at the other flying school (Northampton Airport) online. Sincerely, Vishvas -- Mark Hansen, PP-ASEL, Instrument Airplane, USUA Ultralight Pilot Cal Aggie Flying Farmers Sacramento, CA Back to top Sylvain Guest Posted: Sat May 12, 2007 12:18 am    Post subject: Re: Comparing aircraft rentals and training costs. Vishvas Vasuki wrote: Quote: But, either website does not mention anything about checking out pilots before renting out aircraft for ambitious flights. Is it a common thing? oh that's not what I meant. All I meant was that if you train and graduate at some operation A, and then wants to fly with another operation B, said operation B will want to check you out first; that's very common; actually I don't know of any operation which will hand over the keys without any kind of checkout, no matter how impressive your credentials might be; the time required for said check out will depend on your experience, the local policy, the type of aircraft, etc. The point I was trying to make is that you want to plan ahead and take into consideration the kind of flying you'll want to do when you graduate with your private certificate; availability of aircrafts for more ambitious flights, possibilities to undertake more advanced training (instrument, commercial, etc.) Note that flying can also be quite a time intensive activity; I have been a graduate student for a few years, I don't recall having much free time :-) all the best in both endeavor, --Sylvain Back to top Display posts from previous: All Posts1 Day7 Days2 Weeks1 Month3 Months6 Months1 Year Oldest FirstNewest First         AirTalk.org Forum Index -> Aviation (Students) All times are GMT Page 1 of 1   Jump to: Select a forum Aviation----------------alt.aviationAviation safety EnhancementPlanes, gliders and flying in AustraliaAviation et pilotage (Français)rec.aviationAviation (Aerobatics)Hot air, gas balloons and airshipsHang-gliding, paragliding, foot-launched flightAircraft Design & BuildingInstrument Flight RulesAviation (Classifieds)Military AircraftNaval AviationAviation (Miscellaneous Topics)Owning AirplanesAviators (General Discussions)Aviation related productsAircraft RestorationHelicopters and rotary wing aircraftsFlight SimulationSailplanesAviation (Students)Light aircraftFlying related activities in the UK Airports----------------alt.airportsEdinburgh Airport Glasgow Airport Humberside Airport Luton Airport Aberdeen Airport Glasgow Prestwick Airport  You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2006 phpBB Group SEO toolkit © 2004-2006 webmedic.